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I applied for a job at Netflix and their “voluntary disclosure” section asked “Are you a person of transgender experience?” which is so awkwardly worded I had to think about it for a bit. No option to upload a cover letter but they made a point to ask that question.
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Jul 8, 2021 14:59
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Etuni posted:I applied for a job at Netflix and their “voluntary disclosure” section asked “Are you a person of transgender experience?” which is so awkwardly worded I had to think about it for a bit. No option to upload a cover letter but they made a point to ask that question. I work closely with our recruiters at my company - and nobody reads cover letters.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:53
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Pillowpants posted:I work closely with our recruiters at my company - and nobody reads cover letters.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:58
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Pillowpants posted:I work closely with our recruiters at my company - and nobody reads cover letters. I always read them as the hiring manager. I get a little disappointed when they are not submitted.
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Jul 8, 2021 17:20
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I swear this thread has come up with every single possible permutation of whether cover letters are a good idea or not.  "always include a cover letter, it can't hurt you but may help" "no one reads them but if they do it may hurt you. If they are required go ahead" "I always read them and get disappointed when they are not submitted, though they are not required" "Never submit them unless required" etc. etc. I guess things vary too much to have one take on it, but it does suck not to know quite what to do as a best practice. I think my strategy will be, if they include a field for it but do not require it, I'll come up with a short one and submit it.
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Jul 8, 2021 17:28
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you should probably know or figure out what is standard for your industry.
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Jul 8, 2021 17:42
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If the posting says send resume only, don't send a cover letter, duh. If the posting says send resume and cover letter, send a cover letter, duh. If the posting doesn't specify, then Pascal's Wager applies. There's only small upside but no downside to sending it.
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Jul 8, 2021 17:59
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Eric the Mauve posted:If the posting says send resume only, don't send a cover letter, duh. Yep, and if its a job you think you are very well qualified for then a cover letter might give you an important edge. I think people get into a mode of carpet bombing job openings (which is fine) but you should be putting in extra work into those handful of jobs that are really good fits/really interesting to you. Fully realizing there is a limit to your energy and you can probably only do a handful of those a week, but you should be putting more energy into the openings that are a great fit than the "Why not, I'll hit submit" postings.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:17
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I've had callbacks from prestigious companies, as a pretty average applicant, and they specifically cited my cover letter. Sorry there's no blanket rule but such is life.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:40
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Hmmm, I guess I'm missing out or something.
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Jul 8, 2021 20:19
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Pillowpants posted:I work closely with our recruiters at my company - and nobody reads cover letters. Pillowpants posted:Hmmm, I guess I'm missing out or something. No offense meant but if the reasons you're struggling career wise are unclear to you, you should not give advice ITT. I don't mean to gatekeep or whatever but saying "no one reads cover letters" is incorrect. The accurate advice is "whether your cover letter is useful is often a non deterministic thing" hence the litany of people correcting you. Personally, I agree with this: Lockback posted:Yep, and if its a job you think you are very well qualified for then a cover letter might give you an important edge. Put in the effort for the jobs you want. To get a phone screen you need to be in the top 10% of applicants and there might be 150 applicants. Apply to 100 jobs put real effort into 10 applications get them figgies
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Jul 8, 2021 20:51
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CarForumPoster posted:No offense meant but if the reasons you're struggling career wise are unclear to you, you should not give advice ITT. I don't mean to gatekeep or whatever but saying "no one reads cover letters" is incorrect. The accurate advice is "whether your cover letter is useful is often a non deterministic thing" hence the litany of people correcting you. I am wrong about cover letters - maybe they’re not common in my field. But my struggles aren’t unclear. I suck at playing the back handed game of office politics and rubbed one person the wrong way, but I’ve still managed to double my income over the past five years. On that note - I do have a question. At one company I had a phone screen and then a zoom interview, and the recruiter just called me to schedule a third interview next week in person….but I will be thousands of miles away next week. If they really want me, would they work around that or is that a deal breaker?
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Jul 9, 2021 00:10
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As a rookie hiring person: I skim the cover letter and look for grammar and any weird language, but otherwise, just pick up keywords to make sure they have at least addressed the job description to some degree. Cover letters are stupid but if they don't have one it's a red flag. This is extremely dumb but really it just shows they want the job. I hate writing them and I hate myself for thinking like this. For my communication position, I asked for a 3-minute youtube video. Basically, it screens out people who are just throwing resumes at anything and everything. Since they'll have to make videos and do public facing education for the job it screens out people who can't handle the basics. Feel free to call me a dick for requiring this.
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Jul 9, 2021 00:33
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I've posted this before, but HR throws away the cover letters and just gives me a fat stack of resumes. So any cover letter for a job I post is getting circular filed before I can read it. Still, write the cover letter. It can't hurt.
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Jul 9, 2021 01:16
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Outrail posted:As a rookie hiring person: […] Cover letters are stupid but if they don't have one it's a red flag. This is extremely dumb but really it just shows they want the job. I hate writing them and I hate myself for thinking like this. By requiring 15+ minutes of work just to apply I bet you’ll miss good candidates who might not be super duper interested in the job req at the time they apply but would be good employees and get excited when you respond. You think you’re filtering on people who want to work there but I worry you’re measuring an inaccurate proxy for that attribute.
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Jul 9, 2021 01:24
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i mean the entire process is extremely inaccurate, pretty much anything you do is gonna unintentionally screen people that would otherwise be good. our job postings say write a cover letter. being willing to do dumb poo poo with high quality because you're told to is an integral part of the job so it works for us.
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Jul 9, 2021 01:44
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I always read cover letters, but always after a resume to try to minimize bias. I've definitely had my opinion of people improve/decline from a cover letter but I don't know that it's ever moved people into/out of a phone screen. Still, if you write it I'll read it. You have my attention for like 4 minutes, how do you want to use that? Pillowpants posted:At one company I had a phone screen and then a zoom interview, and the recruiter just called me to schedule a third interview next week in person….but I will be thousands of miles away next week. If they really want me, would they work around that or is that a deal breaker? Yes, that's reasonable flexibility, though set a date and then try to stick hard to it. Set a date on the call, don't do a "let's figure out a date next week".
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Jul 9, 2021 01:52
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i mean the entire process is extremely inaccurate, pretty much anything you do is gonna unintentionally screen people that would otherwise be good. Sure but a cover letter is part of the typical norms of hiring in the US, much like a resume. I suspect "make a 3 minute youtube before we talk" is going to leave a lot of people who dont really need the job because they already have one but theyre casually looking jumping over that application.
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Jul 9, 2021 02:09
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Not to mention videos would introduce more bias to the application process than a mere name on a resume.
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Jul 9, 2021 06:04
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CarForumPoster posted:By requiring 15+ minutes of work just to apply I bet you’ll miss good candidates who might not be super duper interested in the job req at the time they apply but would be good employees and get excited when you respond. You think you’re filtering on people who want to work there but I worry you’re measuring an inaccurate proxy for that attribute. qsvui posted:Not to mention videos would introduce more bias to the application process than a mere name on a resume. Both fair points. The reality is this is an NFP and that basically requires people who are willing to waste a lot of effort accomplishing nothing for a lost cause.  It might introduce some bias but I hope I'm decent enough to look beyond that. We're specifically looking to hire people who fit more underrepresented demographic catagories because that's one of our internal policies.
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Jul 9, 2021 06:24
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CarForumPoster posted:Sure but a cover letter is part of the typical norms of hiring in the US, much like a resume. I suspect "make a 3 minute youtube before we talk" is going to leave a lot of people who dont really need the job because they already have one but theyre casually looking jumping over that application. oh word, you were talking about the video - i thought you were talking about cover letters. ya I agree.
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Jul 9, 2021 12:48
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qsvui posted:Not to mention videos would introduce more bias to the application process than a mere name on a resume. I didn't get the impression the videos would require the candidate's own face to be in them but if so, yeah that could be a legal minefield.
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Jul 9, 2021 14:07
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Ya know, in seeing dozens of title vii discrimination complaints in fed courts I’ve never seen one about discrimination during the hiring. Process. Could get filed more often in state court or handled as a demand letter + eeoc charge but I’ve always wondered how often a company actually faces a suit like that.
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Jul 9, 2021 15:24
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CarForumPoster posted:Ya know, in seeing dozens of title vii discrimination complaints in fed courts I’ve never seen one about discrimination during the hiring. Process. Could get filed more often in state court or handled as a demand letter + eeoc charge but I’ve always wondered how often a company actually faces a suit like that. Its really really hard to bring a case against discrimination in hiring, but it does happen. Unlike employer practices of Title vii, the injured parties don't have any insight into what the company is doing and those that do are (tacitly) beneficiaries of the hiring process so are less likely to see anything wrong. The way these things typically go is by analyzing tons of hiring decisions over years, but that's a ton of work and even then is going to be highly scrutinized. And hiring is so subjective anyway, you have less to go off of than "This department never promotes POCs despite several instances of POC having the best sales record". I think the upside is I believe most hiring bias is unconscious and the vast majority of people will incorporate steps to reduce bias if they are aware of it. But most people aren't aware of it or follow generally super outmoded practices.
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Jul 9, 2021 15:37
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Lockback posted:I think the upside is I believe most hiring bias is unconscious and the vast majority of people will incorporate steps to reduce bias if they are aware of it. But most people aren't aware of it or follow generally super outmoded practices. I agree with this. My company does as well. We have to have a diverse interview panel and we all take a training on interview bias and processes. The whole company takes unconscious bias training as well. The majority of people seem receptive to it.
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Jul 9, 2021 15:42
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So is it more advantageous to self identify as having a disability on the applications?
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Jul 9, 2021 17:57
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Pillowpants posted:So is it more advantageous to self identify as having a disability on the applications? George, is that you?
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Jul 9, 2021 18:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:George, is that you? I have one but I always say no, because I dont trust recruiters. Also a company reached out to me about a position today for a significant cut (same base, but salaried so none of the crazy overtime i make) and i declined --- they called back 20 minutes ago having raised the salary by 25k. I'd never had that happen before.
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Jul 9, 2021 18:31
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Pillowpants posted:I have one but I always say no, because I dont trust recruiters. Decline again and see if they call back with 50k.
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Jul 9, 2021 20:34
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Outrail posted:Decline again and see if they call back with 50k. I did that before I saw this and they did not. It's also not a good company to work for so I didn't fret too much. The role was held by 4 people over the past 5 years.
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Jul 9, 2021 21:46
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spwrozek posted:I agree with this. My company does as well. We have to have a diverse interview panel and we all take a training on interview bias and processes. The whole company takes unconscious bias training as well. The majority of people seem receptive to it. My current company has a diversity committee of sorts and outwardly seems to value diversity but all of the recent hires have been white dudes 
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Jul 10, 2021 07:24
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qsvui posted:My current company has a diversity committee of sorts and outwardly seems to value diversity but all of the recent hires have been white dudes My company has the same but we’ve got a real problem with an 80-20 male/female split.
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Jul 10, 2021 14:51
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Pillowpants posted:My company has the same but we’ve got a real problem with an 80-20 male/female split. If you're talking about a computer-toucher department that sounds positively progressive
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Jul 10, 2021 15:28
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I can only speak for myself and my peers, but spend the majority of your time and effort on the resume. I've hired 7 people and looked at a few hundred resumes this last year. The cover letter was just a litmus test to see if they could string thoughts together and didn't come across like a fuckin' weirdo. I work in the IT in the weed industry for a pretty massive company. I wouldn't skip someone for not having one. But if they had one and it sucked I probably wouldn't spend a lot of time on the resume. Beaucoup Cuckoo fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 17:25
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My favorites are "wrong position listed on cover letter." Like, I understand it's a big company, with a fair amount of openings, and you're just sort of spitballing. That's fine. But don't turn in a letter stating "I feel like I'm a great fit for XXX" when you're applying to do YYY. I watched my manager review 12 resumes and cover letters, throw out the 5 that did that, then interview the remaining 7 for 2 positions. That was literally the entire litmus test. No cover letter got you an interview. Wrong department? DONE. Also, if you're doing contract work, don't let the contracting company write your resume. We can tell -- they all have a certain bad formatting, and a lot of typos. I mean, I TRY not to hold it against you...but when you see sentences just trail off into nothing, and constant references to your "passed expirence..." it just makes you look bad. blackmet fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 23:59
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Interviewing for a job I probably don't want. Makes me feel weird. Never done this before. Ok so I'm a dining manager at a CCRC, been working at the same place for 2.5 years (same company for 4.5) and by all accounts, I'm doing really well. My annual reviews are always positive, the teenaged servers like me and our senior clients do too. I got my MBA two months ago so I thought I'd start trying for other better jobs in the area because there's no clear path forward in the company besides an administrator in a training program which is currently stalled because the only person who can provide the training left. No idea when it'll start up again, and nobody is talking. I asked for a raise just before getting my MBA and they told me to wait until I got it. I got it and they told me no MBA raise until my next review (December). Despite this, I love my workplace but I have to put the MBA to work so I've been applying for jobs. Nothing on non-dining things (I've been in dining but someone asked me to interview for the director of dining (My boss's job) at a CCRC in a neighboring city (+20 min commute). Most dining directors have upper-level culinary training (chefs you know), I've been a cook but transitioned to FOH manager after a year. I'm interviewing on one of my days off, don't know the company, not a lot of info online. It's smaller and slightly more poorly reviewed. I'm hoping they'll offer me the job so I can use that to ask for more money at my current site. I plan on being honest about not looking to leave my workplace but am interested in seeing what is out there. I haven't told my own boss, but am thinking about doing that on Monday. Any thoughts?
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Jul 11, 2021 07:11
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I wouldn't be mentioning anything about interviewing outside of the company to your current boss. There's nothing for you to potentially gain by doing this unless you've got an in-writing job offer that you want to use to try and get a salary bump to stay where you are.
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Jul 11, 2021 10:14
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BBQ Dave posted:Interviewing for a job I probably don't want. Makes me feel weird. Never done this before. This doesn’t seem like a very likely to succeed plan. Seeking that raise externally is usually the right call. If you get the offer and jump ship if current place tells you no it won’t look good. This is one of those YMMV but here’s the most often true thing.
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Jul 11, 2021 11:13
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BBQ Dave posted:Interviewing for a job I probably don't want. Makes me feel weird. Never done this before. This reminds me of how I felt after I got my MBA - spending so much time and effort in something and then feeling like wasted potential/momentum if I didn’t go out and apply to jobs right away or get a big raise! I’d say take a breather for a minute and think about what you are looking to achieve. If they plan to give you a big raise, and you are happy, does 6 months really matter? Maybe talk to your boss ahead of time and make sure the raise is big enough to make you happy? I ultimately think I made a decent post-MBA choice about 6 months after I graduated, but I was definitely impatient about it and looking back feel a bit meh over how distracted I was by the “need” for recompense. Whatever you do, I don’t see a benefit in telling your boss and wouldn’t leverage this new place unless you are ready to leave if a salary bump doesn’t happen right away. Just stirs the pot.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:29
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OP, you poured a lot of time and money into your MBA. What is it for? What is your plan? Because let me tell you, if it was "get a big raise from my current employer," that is a fantastically bad and naive plan. Your shiny new MBA will do you no good whatsoever if you're not willing to leave behind the company that has made it crystal clear they aren't interested in employing you on anything but your current terms and go get paid. I actually like your plan to make your boss aware you're interviewing elsewhere, but not for the reason you think. I like it because it will inevitably lead to your departure from the company within a few months, and it sounds like you can benefit from having some time pressure put on you to go beat the pavement and get a better job. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 15:24
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