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Douche Wolf 89 posted:Numerous, individual to different people and classes, and split between multiple crusades. Urban II might never have agreed to help if it didn't mean undoing some of the effects of the great schism. He also desperately wanted to distract from the difficult political situations he was involved in, and to seal his legitimacy. Likewise, in the numerous versions of the speech at Clermont, as well as personal letters, he seemed more concerned with defending/restoring the churches above repelling the Turks from the land. The supposed or assumed promise of complete forgiveness and guarenteed entrance to heaven was a bigger motivator, along with the promise of loot from people they often had to trade at high prices with, were important factors for individual joiners on. Charismatic preachers sought to rocket themselves past traditional religious hierarchy into esteemed places. "Getting the Muslims out of Christian lands" is an obtuse description when many Crusaders went home satisfied from laying siege on other Christians. You're not wrong in those details, but my position is none of that would have mattered without the Turks in Asia Minor, just like it hadn't mattered for the centuries prior. The sudden collapse of Byzantine Anatolia, the 'heathen' army crashing against the Aegean and threatening to take Constantinople and push on into Europe, and the specific request from the Emperor for aid from the West were all fundamental shifts in the balance of power of the early medieval world. Byzantium held Antioch and its power in the east protected the churches and pilgrims to the other two cities of the pentarchy, there wouldn't be the pressing need to restore or defend the church without the invasion. Likewise if the Empire wasn't suddenly put in a far weaker position relative to the West, there wouldn't be the chance to force the mending of the schism. Urban absolutely took advantage of the situation to strengthen his position, charismatic preachers and loot-hungry nobles used the situation to boost themselves, but that situation had to exist in the first place. There would not be a crusade without the Seljuk invasion of Anatolia.
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Jul 11, 2021 07:40
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I met a true crazy conspiracy guy in the wild last night, think he believes in literally everything going. Also very pro Trump, which is very strange here in England. Lost my poo poo at him though when he said that abused children have chosen to be born into that life. Have woken up feeling rather perturbed that I may have met an actual pedophile. But that wasn't social media so have some Turning Point UK:  
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Jul 11, 2021 07:53
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Did that guy piss his pants?
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Jul 11, 2021 07:58
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Did that guy piss his pants? Yes, and we on the left were all very owned because of it.
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Jul 11, 2021 08:03
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Byzantine posted:So what, in your opinion, was the reason for the crusades? When in doubt I just say “material conditions”
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Jul 11, 2021 08:03
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sugar mouse posted:But that wasn't social media so have some Turning Point UK: Pissed pants and a crumpled shirt is a bold look for a movement so heavily reliant on aesthetics. Yeah, Slick, you look like a victor, but why were you fighting against irons and bladder control? Also, what is it with the right and eggs? Weirdos never met an ovulation they couldn't politicise.
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Jul 11, 2021 08:14
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It should also be said Urban was not the originator of the crusades as an idea a couple of popes had toyed with it but domestic issues usually meant it went knowhere. Urban revitalized it but even then the crusading ideal had no specific appeal. With most recruits having heard unauthorized street preachers who gave people ideas the church itself didn’t endorse. Hell the concept of a crusade didn’t really become a thing until the second one
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Jul 11, 2021 08:26
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Ah yes, supermarkets, well known for supporting farmers and not forcing them to get paid gently caress all.
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Jul 11, 2021 08:50
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Idiots on Social Media: So what, in your opinion, was the reason for the crusades?
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Jul 11, 2021 08:58
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Ratjaculation posted:Ah yes, supermarkets, well known for supporting farmers and not forcing them to get paid gently caress all. And the leftists, who stereotypically hate domestically produced goods and opt for products produced by cheap labor and shipped from the other end of the world.
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Jul 11, 2021 09:28
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sugar mouse posted:I met a true crazy conspiracy guy in the wild last night, think he believes in literally everything going. Also very pro Trump, which is very strange here in England. Lost my poo poo at him though when he said that abused children have chosen to be born into that life. Have woken up feeling rather perturbed that I may have met an actual pedophile. drat, really wanna turn that dude's face into a victim of my fist
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Jul 11, 2021 09:41
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Mx. posted:drat, really wanna turn that dude's face into a victim of my fist 'hey great job, you inspired me to buy British' <pelts him with eggs>
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Jul 11, 2021 09:53
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lobsterminator posted:And the leftists, who stereotypically hate domestically produced goods and opt for products produced by cheap labor and shipped from the other end of the world. Yeah, the comments were fairly full of people pointing out that, thankfully.
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Jul 11, 2021 10:08
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I do buy British and seasonal because, environment. That Morrison’s salted butter is absolutely vile. It’s like they siphoned the taste out of it and left you with a big block of grease. You are much better off with 600ml of cream and a kenwood mixer with then ball whip (heh heh) attachment and let it churn till the ball turns into a lump of butter.
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Jul 11, 2021 15:29
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Kenning posted:This is an insane gimmick. truly byzantine machinations in that mind
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Jul 11, 2021 16:07
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learnincurve posted:I do buy British and seasonal because, environment. At least in the US, just get actual butter at the grocery store. It's on the controlled shortlist where if it's labelled as butter it has to actually just be butter of various levels of saltedness. Just get unsalted butter and throw most of it in the freezer, it keeps forever that way.
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Jul 11, 2021 17:15
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Funny thing about butter; if the cows your milk comes from are fed palm oil heavy diet, which isn’t done in the U.K., you end up with incredibly dense greasy butter. Which raises questions, like “are you calling it British butter just because you churn it here and where does the milk you are using actually come from”
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Jul 11, 2021 17:25
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FFT posted:At least in the US, just get actual butter at the grocery store. It's on the controlled shortlist where if it's labelled as butter it has to actually just be butter of various levels of saltedness. If you can find it, Calma Amish butter is pretty great. Comes in a one pound brick. The label is in polish, so it's easy to spot. I use standard grocery store sticks of butter for baking, and the Amish stuff for anything where the flavor of the butter matters more than the exact quantity. http://www.calmaoptimal.com/Calma%20products.htm
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Jul 11, 2021 17:45
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learnincurve posted:Funny thing about butter; if the cows your milk comes from are fed palm oil heavy diet, which isn’t done in the U.K., you end up with incredibly dense greasy butter. They started doing that in Canada last year, thinking people wouldn't notice. Everybody noticed. Parliament got involved, butter was recalled, truckloads of milk were dumped, it cost the dairy industry millions of dollars
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Jul 11, 2021 17:58
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Silly Newbie posted:If you can find it, Calma Amish butter is pretty great.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:09
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flavor.flv posted:They started doing that in Canada last year, thinking people wouldn't notice. gently caress YEAH, FOOD WASTE RULES!
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Jul 11, 2021 18:14
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It’s not that simple. Palm oil is incredibly unethical and the west’s demand is murdering the orangutang for it. If the farmers needed to learn a lesson to save the rainforests then so be it.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:17
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learnincurve posted:It’s not that simple. Palm oil is incredibly unethical and the west’s demand is murdering the orangutang for it. If the farmers needed to learn a lesson to save the rainforests then so be it. 3 countries consume more palm oil than the entire 'west' combined, and none of them are in the 'west' (Indonesia, India & China)
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Jul 11, 2021 18:24
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Ratjaculation posted:3 countries consume more palm oil than the entire 'west' combined, and none of them are in the 'west' No, he meant Kanye West. Dude drinks palm-oil like it's milk.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:25
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I’m allergic to palm oil and it’s in chuffing everything now. The “warning may contain nuts” is on labels because the machinery they use in food production is lubricated by peanut oil. The industry has been spending the last 5 years switching to palm oil instead. And this m’lud is why we should arm the big Orange apes.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:32
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I'm down for arming the orangutans but it's dumb af to throw away tons of already-produced palm oil like that helps. Reminds me of my current state, where I'm vegetarian but if my dumbass family gives me chicken or beef leftovers I'm going to eat or make cat treats because... nothing is gained by throwing it away? The bad bits all already happened. That cow and that industry remains regardless of if it becomes someone's poo poo or if I toss it out.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:42
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Sending a message that reduces lovely production in the long term whilst being wasteful in the short term is still probably better in the long term. this specifically in the apparent canadian rebellion against palm oil in butter, anyway
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Jul 11, 2021 18:46
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Ratjaculation posted:3 countries consume more palm oil than the entire 'west' combined, and none of them are in the 'west' So at what consumption level is it acceptable to push back? Is it only OK if we don't crack the top 3 or is it measured another way?
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Jul 11, 2021 18:49
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Just go out onto the street and offer a stranger your meat? Palm oil is indeed complex, a environmental, social and economic mess. It's mega cheap to make and sold as such. What small wild pockets of Borneo/Kalimantan and Sumatra remain are in an ecological cascade from apex predator loss and island effects. Zoom in anywhere on those regions on Google maps and the satellite view will likely show rows of identical crops. But then do the same to anywhere in Europe, chances are it'll also be some monoculture. Atticus_1354 posted:So at what consumption level is it acceptable to push back? Is it only OK if we don't crack the top 3 or is it measured another way? Don't buy it if you can afford alternatives with less of an ecological and food mile footprint. Don't judge those that can't afford that.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:49
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Atticus_1354 posted:So at what consumption level is it acceptable to push back? Is it only OK if we don't crack the top 3 or is it measured another way? I mean the original post did frame it as the west’s fault. Kind of fair to point out that isn’t true
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Jul 11, 2021 18:50
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I suppose there's also a difference between direct and indirect consumption of palm oil (I feel like milk from cows fed it is indirect?), but also I agree.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:54
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Ratjaculation posted:Don't buy it if you can afford alternatives with less of an ecological and food mile footprint. Was it making the cost of dairy substantially cheaper for the consumer?
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Jul 11, 2021 18:54
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Atticus_1354 posted:Was it making the cost of dairy substantially cheaper for the consumer? *other fat supplements include soy, which now covers a chunk of the removed Amazon. Basically globalised food systems tend to be bad. Ratjaculation has a new favorite as of 19:04 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 19:00
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What makes the issue of the production of palm oil complex is that it is actually extremely high yield relative to surface area. No other crop can produce so much oil - and this amount of oil is apparently needed to sustain the world population. Not using palm oil is only helpful if you do not use a substitute. That is not to say that nothing can be done. But the solutions aren’t easy, and we need to be mindful of who would bear the costs of any solution (hint: it’s the people in the producing countries)
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Jul 11, 2021 19:11
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May I interest you all in my own version of ethical eating? I buy British, and then prep and freeze/pickle veg to stockpile during seasons, (there are many many seasonal cookery books out there) and then only buy the short date yellow sticker stuff which is about to be thrown out for everything else. 
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Jul 11, 2021 19:12
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Ratjaculation posted:3 countries consume more palm oil than the entire 'west' combined, and none of them are in the 'west' Is this a "China produces way more fossil fuel emissions" situation* or is a straight comparison like that fair in the case of palm oil? * I'm talking of course about how people like to scream that it shouldn't be up to western countries to reduce consumption because of this,
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Jul 11, 2021 19:17
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learnincurve posted:only buy the short date yellow sticker stuff which is about to be thrown out for everything else. I’ve been strictly vegetarian for a decent number of years. But I’m increasingly becoming more lactose intolerant, and there is a limit to how many eggs and pea protein powder shakes you can stomach. So this is my approach to ethical meat consumption too: I buy the stuff that is about to get thrown out.
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Jul 11, 2021 19:21
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I just give up and concede the victory to capitalism. I'll eat whatever palm oil marinated prime beef they shove in my face until I die gasping for air in the broiling atmosphere.
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Jul 11, 2021 19:30
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All Irish butter is Kerrygold. Every single cheap rear end supermarket 2.19l/lb own brand butter in Ireland is essentially Kerrygold. There are no special Kerrygold dairies, no creameries. All the milk goes into the same places, so within Ireland, all butter is equal. Except that awful imported french shite. That is terrible butter. The danish stuff is just as bad. Come to Ireland, buy cheap butter, it'll be delicious as all heck.
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Jul 11, 2021 19:52
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I've got a solid chunk of Kerrygold in the freezer for when I want something a bit better than Lo'L
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Jul 11, 2021 19:58
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