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The Goodberry issue, as I understand it, is that you can cast Goodberry with all of your slots while in a safe place, the day before you leave for an adventure. The long rest thing is only related in so far you can have a bit under 24 hours left on those berries in the morning instead of a bit under 16.
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Jul 12, 2021 15:10
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Speaking of long combats, our Frostmaiden DM is running what I assume to be homebrewed challenges to get the codicil from Auril; right now, we're halfway through 12 waves of combat based on the 12 Days of Christmas poem. Six lords a leaping ended up being 6 Red Slaads and we're getting absolutely destroyed. Two players "died" (we have 3 lives in the challenge) to larva rapidly incubating and then bursting out of their chests. So far this has taken like 10 rounds already and we've burnt through all of our resources.
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Jul 12, 2021 15:17
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Lotus Aura posted:For a fight to last at least an hour, it'd need to be 600 rounds long. It looks to me like the idea is that you can spend up to an hour doing physical activities without losing your rest, which can include a mix of combat/walking/etc. Less "60 minutes of fighting", more "60 minutes of activity, including a fight".
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Jul 12, 2021 17:15
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Yeah the only way I can see to read that is a "combat doesn't void the rest unless there are shenanigans" rule.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:29
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change my name posted:Speaking of long combats, our Frostmaiden DM is running what I assume to be homebrewed challenges to get the codicil from Auril; right now, we're halfway through 12 waves of combat based on the 12 Days of Christmas poem. Six lords a leaping ended up being 6 Red Slaads and we're getting absolutely destroyed. Two players "died" (we have 3 lives in the challenge) to larva rapidly incubating and then bursting out of their chests. So far this has taken like 10 rounds already and we've burnt through all of our resources. That is homebrew, and your DM is a monster. Lotus Aura posted:For a fight to last at least an hour, it'd need to be 600 rounds long. It's ludicrous if you think a fight should cancel the long rest and rest the clock, but I think that's an excessive penalty. There's already a penalty for getting into a fight when you're trying to take a long rest: you're fighting with most of your resources depleted, presumably the reason why you chose to take that long rest in the first place.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:37
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah the only way I can see to read that is a "combat doesn't void the rest unless there are shenanigans" rule. It reads to me like they wanted to give the DM the option to add random encounters to a long rest without making the party then need to redo another long rest until the DM rolled a peaceful night, which seems reasonable. I'm not a fan of random encounters during a rest unless the PCs try to rest somewhere they shouldn't and I'm trying to discourage that, but I understand that my tastes aren't universal. It's good that the rules allow it.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:39
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PeterWeller posted:That is homebrew, and your DM is a monster. We're getting a long rest after this round and if we die here it won't stick + there's another way to get the codicil if we fail. Still, they did manage to off our seemingly immortal shield guardian, that guy totally destroyed the campaign's balance and it's really easy to come across.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:45
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Toshimo posted:Its pretty dumb, honestly, because combat averages 12-30 seconds, so you can fit an entire "adventuring day" of 6-8 combats into less than 5 minutes, so what the hell would even interrupt you for an entire hour? Magical whatever that produces one (1) Awakened Shrub every 10 seconds for 1 hour and 30 seconds. Just an endless parade of shrubs that can be easily destroyed with cantrips. 
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Jul 12, 2021 18:13
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Can an awakened planet talk? It knows a language but it doesn't have a mouth
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Jul 12, 2021 18:35
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Rutibex posted:Can an awakened planet talk? It knows a language but it doesn't have a mouth It can shift its features (mountain ranges, rivers, etc) to spell out words.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:44
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The oceans murmur, the hurricane shouts
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Jul 12, 2021 18:47
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or just do it like Solaris and give your players a truly memorable experience
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Jul 12, 2021 18:48
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Villagers warn the heroes not to go into the haunted forest. People who go in there never return. Turns out the place is just chock full of Awakened Shrubs doing their best to protect the forest after their druid died.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:51
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Facebook Aunt posted:Villagers warn the heroes not to go into the haunted forest. People who go in there never return. Turns out the place is just chock full of Awakened Shrubs doing their best to protect the forest after their druid died. I've done this with Pathfinder's leshies before, it's really really fun. e: the trick is to make the remaining plant guardians sympathetic and open to allying with the PCs, instead of a strict purge through combat. Arivia fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 18:58
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Toshimo posted:Its pretty dumb, honestly, because combat averages 12-30 seconds, so you can fit an entire "adventuring day" of 6-8 combats into less than 5 minutes, so what the hell would even interrupt you for an entire hour? I think this is the point right? Like things should not interrupt the long rest unless they're really dire (e.g., you fought and now need to hurriedly flee to safety someplace hours away). The idea is that you can be interrupted for a few minutes (up to an hour) and then continue your rest - rest for 2 hours, get into a small combat, spend some time talking for up to an hour (3 hours total so far), then rest for 6 more hours (total of 9 with the interruption) and you're good.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:17
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The rule says it only counts as an "interruption" if the strenuous activity lasts longer than an hour, but there is no limit on the number of interruptions or a cumulative time limit. This means you can have an unlimited number of 59 minute interruptions and not disturb your long rest. The rules also do not forbid taking short and long rests at the same time. The optimum strategy is to begin long resting immediately at the beginning of the day and never exert yourself for a period longer than 59 minutes. This way you can accumulate "long rest" throughout the day between activities and double dip whenever you short rest. If you need your spells back after 8 hours of a grueling dungeon you can take the final minute of your long rest and continue on.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:42
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Rutibex posted:The rule says it only counts as an "interruption" if the strenuous activity lasts longer than an hour, but there is no limit on the number of interruptions or a cumulative time limit. This means you can have an unlimited number of 59 minute interruptions and not disturb your long rest. The rules also do not forbid taking short and long rests at the same time. 
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Jul 12, 2021 19:56
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Rutibex posted:The rule says it only counts as an "interruption" if the strenuous activity lasts longer than an hour, but there is no limit on the number of interruptions or a cumulative time limit. This means you can have an unlimited number of 59 minute interruptions and not disturb your long rest. The rules also do not forbid taking short and long rests at the same time. This is, sadly, incorrect. Strenuous activity, such as fighting and "adventuring activity", interrupts the long rest and pauses the timer because it's not sleeping or light activity. But that strenuous activity does not reset the timer until you've spent an hour doing it. So you're still gonna have to pack in your 8 hours between fights and "adventuring activity."
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Jul 12, 2021 20:02
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I would just plan a gauntlet that spawned its last enemy on round 601 every time the party takes a long rest. Eventually the problem players will either quit the game or get the hint. Either way, problem solved 
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Jul 12, 2021 20:11
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I'd talk to my players.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:25
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When the designers said 6-8 encounters per day, they meant rooms full of save-or-die traps. This is why goodberry balance seems off.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:28
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theironjef posted:I'd talk to my players. Nah, you gotta break their spirit first. Then you can have a conversation.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:29
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I guess if Goodberry is a problem you could house rule it to be a class feature rather than a spell. Let rangers and druids cast it once a day without using a spell slot, but it can't be cast with spell slots. That lets you feed 10 creatures a day and do a little healing, but not do a ridiculous amount of healing. Goodberry is great if you want to have a pet panther. Otherwise rations for a 150lb obligate carnivore should be a problem pretty often. Many snakes and birds of prey have a similarly problem diet. There are lots of animals that would be cool for a ranger or druid to have as a buddy that could be a real hassle. Goodberry lets you abstract that away without totally ignoring it. You can feed any 10 creatures a day. Kitty will probably be cranky if you give her a berry rather than fresh meat, but she'll survive until you can go hunting. For clerics create food and water is a level 3 spell. 15 people or 5 mounts. Doesn't heal poo poo. Why is it so much higher level than Good Berry? I'm guessing because Clerics are less likely to have exotic pets.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:45
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Facebook Aunt posted:For clerics create food and water is a level 3 spell. 15 people or 5 mounts. Doesn't heal poo poo. Why is it so much higher level than Good Berry? I'm guessing because Clerics are less likely to have exotic pets. It doesn't even have a ritual tag. Just mind boggling.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:49
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Rename it to Badberry
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Jul 12, 2021 21:02
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mango sentinel posted:It doesn't even have a ritual tag. Just mind boggling. If it had the ritual tag a cleric could feed hundreds of people a day. Why are you adventuring when you could be feeding hundreds of starving people instead?
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Jul 12, 2021 21:11
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D&D doesn't function well as a food production/economics simulator. Or a "survival in hostile climates" simulator. The Goodberry's potential problem is that it's a storehouse of free HP. Even then they're not good to use in the middle of combat, so it's not going to turn PCs immortal. 10 HP per casting has diminishing returns as PCs level up and get more HP, not to mention the myriad other ways PCs can be ground down via exhaustion, conditions, and life-draining attacks which can temporarily reduce one's maximum hit points. Goodberry isn't as powerful in groups with larger than normal parties including animal companions.
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Jul 12, 2021 21:19
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Facebook Aunt posted:If it had the ritual tag a cleric could feed hundreds of people a day. Why are you adventuring when you could be feeding hundreds of starving people instead? Because you worship some fun "have adventures" god and not some boring "be a baker" god.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:17
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Facebook Aunt posted:I guess if Goodberry is a problem you could house rule it to be a class feature rather than a spell. Let rangers and druids cast it once a day without using a spell slot, but it can't be cast with spell slots. That lets you feed 10 creatures a day and do a little healing, but not do a ridiculous amount of healing. It's the reverse compatibility problem. Goodberry has existed as a druid spell since 1E Unearthed Arcana, so like many spells in 5E it exists because it existed before. Interestingly, the 1E version limited the healing you could receive from the berries at 8 hp per day. It's in the 5E spirit not to make you track how many berries you scarfed down in one day, but that would be an easy fix. Until 3E, the spell was a 2nd level Druid spell. Whether 3E dropped it to 1st to reflect the healing numbers from the spell or because they were recalibrating from the earlier 1st-7th level Druid spell range to the 1-9 range is hard to say. Having it at 2nd level and Create Food and Water at 3rd makes good sense, as after all, the berry only provides for the food requirements. Unless you read "nourishment" as covering food and water, which isn't consistent with past versions of the spell, but is potentially consistent with the English language. One might reasonably ask, however, why the designers would make it so easy for the two classes most likely to be able to hunt or forage for food while traveling to negate the need for hunting or foraging.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:28
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Narsham posted:One might reasonably ask, however, why the designers would make it so easy for the two classes most likely to be able to hunt or forage for food while traveling to negate the need for hunting or foraging. I bet the answer is "one player back in the 70's wanted to play a nature-attuned character and came up with this spell as part of their repertoire, and it became enshrined in The Lore forever after"
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Jul 13, 2021 01:32
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I'm surprised there's nothing in the Goodberry spell description that says you can't eat more than one a day. It provides you a full day's nourishment, you'd think that 2 would be a struggle, 3 would be repulsive, and 10 would make you explode like a Monty Python sketch
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Jul 13, 2021 01:39
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Roll constitution to see if you die from the LD50 of goodberry vitamins
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Jul 13, 2021 01:41
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change my name posted:I'm surprised there's nothing in the Goodberry spell description that says you can't eat more than one a day. It provides you a full day's nourishment, you'd think that 2 would be a struggle, 3 would be repulsive, and 10 would make you explode like a Monty Python sketch They work for any creature, from a vole to a dragon, so it can't be a fixed nutritional value. Implied is that the berry is able to evaluate the nutritional needs of whatever has ingested it and magically meet them. So my assumption would be that if you ate two, the second would generate no additional nutrition because you don't need any.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:43
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Bogan Krkic posted:Roll constitution to see if you die from the LD50 of goodberry vitamins gonna have a character who eats dozens of goodberries inflate like violet from charlie and the chocolate factory
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Jul 13, 2021 01:44
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I drank half a bottle of goodberry wine and now I can't fit through the door to my house
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Jul 13, 2021 01:45
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Mixing a bunch of goodberries into peoples breakfasts to prank them
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Jul 13, 2021 01:47
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change my name posted:I'm surprised there's nothing in the Goodberry spell description that says you can't eat more than one a day. It provides you a full day's nourishment, you'd think that 2 would be a struggle, 3 would be repulsive, and 10 would make you explode like a Monty Python sketch The effects of 10 goodberries https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yqw_f26SvM&t=75s
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Jul 13, 2021 01:51
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Narsham posted:One might reasonably ask, however, why the designers would make it so easy for the two classes most likely to be able to hunt or forage for food while traveling to negate the need for hunting or foraging.
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Jul 13, 2021 03:18
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Looking at the five pre-made heroes that come with the Starter Set, they do not appear to indicate a Subclass. Is that accurate, or have I missed something blindingly obvious? (Probably!) I have no intention of making new players try and choose a subclass, but if we go beyond Phandalin (most likely into Storm Kings Thunder) I'd like to know if these pre-made heroes map to a particular Subclass (in which case, the players can just stick with that); or if I need to make the players choose a Subclass at that stage.
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Jul 13, 2021 08:09
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Moreau posted:Looking at the five pre-made heroes that come with the Starter Set, they do not appear to indicate a Subclass. Is that accurate, or have I missed something blindingly obvious? (Probably!) Martials don't get a subclass until level 3 and casters are Cleric(1), Sorc(1), Druid(2), Wizard(2) and Warlock(1).
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Jul 13, 2021 08:16
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