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Hadlock posted:I keep my phone on silent 99% of the time unless I'm expecting a call back, or some kind of scheduled call 
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Jul 2, 2021 21:55
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Just had an offer come in for a senior devops position. I'm not super sold on it (it's a step back career wise in a lot of ways), but the compensation looks decent. I currently make 155k with a roughly 10-15% bonus. No equity. Been here almost 10 years with some fairly sizeable raises over that time; they've taken pretty good care of me. This place is offering 182k, 25% equity (25% of that vests after 1 year, the rest vests quarterly over 3 years). They're not publicly traded in the US, although they're on the ASX. I consider the equity to be essentially worthless, although I could be undervaluing it having never received equity before. Not sure about bonuses yet or other benefits although I know they fully cover health insurance (which my current employer doesn't, to the tune of ~$400/month out of my paycheck). I told them I want 200 and they're seeing what they can do. I'm not sure where the cut-off point of it being stupid to not take the offer even if I feel like it's a step back career-wise is. It's a good problem to have, I'm just extremely change- and risk-averse. I know I'm good at my current job and it's stable and secure and I more or less enjoy it. I've turned down offers before to stick with this place and I haven't been disappointed in the decision.
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Jul 9, 2021 15:24
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10 years and 155k and no equity mentioned is not "pretty good care of you"
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Jul 9, 2021 15:55
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bob dobbs is dead posted:10 years and 155k and no equity mentioned is not "pretty good care of you" I mean, it's a small company (<50 employees) and is privately owned. The new company is much larger (hundreds of employees) and was recently acquired.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:15
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:it's a step back career wise in a lot of ways If you want advice you're going to have to elaborate on this.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:41
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oh yeah well, if they're a small company they should definitely be allowed to pay way under market rate wait a minute, that's not right at all also re: equity, when you get it, can you immediately sell it for money? if so, it's not worthless by definition. IIUC, being listed on a non-NYSE exchange is fine as long as you can exchange your shares for money. who cares if they have to get converted from aussiebux first or whatever?
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Jul 9, 2021 16:45
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ultrafilter posted:If you want advice you're going to have to elaborate on this. Fair enough. I'm currently a consultant focused on "cloud native applications" and devops stuff, so I basically am a jack of all trades -- I'm a cloud architect, a software developer/architect, a devops expert, a trainer (and so on) depending on the project. I'm used to having a tremendous amount of latitude to design and implement solutions as I see fit, or at least being a major contributor to the design. This would be taking a step back from that and being just another cog in the machine of a larger organization, with a relatively narrow day-to-day focus.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:52
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ask for double total comp (current offer cash, more equity) and be happy w 160% then lol differences in work is what it is but you cant eat titles
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Jul 9, 2021 16:56
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Being a cog, of course, makes it easier to just stack paper for a while until you find a different smaller shop where you can have wider latitude again but will pay you more. And yeah, I get RSUs from a non-US exchange. They’re still something I can sell on day 1 after vesting, so it totally counts as money.
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Jul 9, 2021 18:08
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Sounds like less responsibility and more money. If nothing else, this seems like a pretty good signal that you can reasonably expect better compensation. If you like the current place that much, you could potentially use it as a negotiating point.
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Jul 9, 2021 21:18
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It's more than ok to keep the well-paid (compared to people in general, not just computer touchers) job that you like. If all you're afraid of is the change, though (you said you're averse to change but also I'm projecting), and aside from that you're pretty sure you'd like the new job, that's not a great reason to stay. I guess ask yourself is it "I really like my current job" or is it "I don't want to deal with the change". They are quite different, even if the end result can look similar. Personally I wouldn't look too hard at the compensation, you're not giving any indication it would make a meaningful difference in your life.
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Jul 9, 2021 21:54
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zerofunk posted:Sounds like less responsibility and more money. If nothing else, this seems like a pretty good signal that you can reasonably expect better compensation. If you like the current place that much, you could potentially use it as a negotiating point. Funnily enough my yearly review is happening next week... I'll see what happens with that. I'm not going to hold it over their head and try to extort them or anything, because that's just an awful position for everyone at the end of the process. But if I say "hey, I have an offer on the table, I'm not sure if I want to take it but it's a really swell deal", that yearly salary bump may suddenly get a bit more generous. Right now the offer (especially if the negotiations go in my favor) is making me feel like taking the risk is worth it. But an extra 15 or 20k without changing jobs might change that feeling. Plus, we've had folks leave and come back a few years later before, so it's very much in my best interest to keep the door open because I know for a fact that we re-hire. I'm also slightly biased toward this company because in 2016 when my mother was dying they just gave me 3 months off with full pay, no questions asked, so I could shuttle her around to doctors / hang out with her in the hospice. That was pretty solid of them, although I'm well aware that sentimentality has no place in negotiations. pokeyman posted:It's more than ok to keep the well-paid (compared to people in general, not just computer touchers) job that you like. I really like a lot of things about my current job. But I'm not thrilled with the direction we've been heading for the past few years and I feel like my concerns are largely falling on deaf ears, which isn't a great feeling. The new job seems like it's kind of mundane devops janitor work. I'm weighing whether I want to be a much better compensated janitor or a moderately undercompensated architect, more or less. The compensation difference is "potentially buy a midlife crisis car / pay off my mortgage in 10 years instead of 28 / get my kitchen remodeled" money. Not "now I'll be able to get out from under my crushing debt" money. So definitely nice to have and I can think of a million things I'd do with several thousand additional dollars per month. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 9, 2021 |
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Jul 9, 2021 22:06
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Fair enough. I'm currently a consultant focused on "cloud native applications" and devops stuff, so I basically am a jack of all trades -- I'm a cloud architect, a software developer/architect, a devops expert, a trainer (and so on) depending on the project. I'm used to having a tremendous amount of latitude to design and implement solutions as I see fit, or at least being a major contributor to the design. Jack of all trades to specialist isn't necessarily a step back. There's a reason why the second half of that saying is "master of none".
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Jul 9, 2021 22:10
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:I mean, it's a small company (<50 employees) and is privately owned. Lol what Nobody is paying you market rate, so they take that savings and roll it over into your boss' annual bonus. That money they're not paying you doesn't just disappear into the ether 182 sounds like about where you should be at, depending on location Count the equity as zero, yeah but could be a nice bump in 3-10 years, maybe
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Jul 9, 2021 23:51
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its listed equity its basically just bein paid in extra aussiebucks or whatever
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Jul 10, 2021 00:53
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Being a jack of all trades when those trades are completely different jobs is not a good thing unless you have a specific plan for those skills like joining a startup or an extremely small company.
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Jul 10, 2021 02:21
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Yeah, working devops for a larger company will give you the opportunity to specialize and work on some very neat technologies at a much larger scale, which will further lead to your wage value increasing. I say jump for the new job without burning bridges. If you hate it, you can take a pay cut to move back to the old, ideally at a higher rate.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:28
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So last time, I asked about which companies pay the most. This time, I've got a resume question: Do I need to put something on my resume for the last year I've been "retired"? I retired a year ago, then I completely lost my retirement funds via day trading, and am looking to get back to work. My gut tells me this would be the wrong way to present it: 2020-2021: Day-trader 2014-2020: Software engineer at FANG 2010-2014: Software engineer at Local software company Should I leave it off or do you think people will glance over it if I write "day-trader" as if I quit to start a business or something and changed my mind? I did start a marketing agency business too lol but I didn't get any clients and closed it.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:27
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asur posted:Being a jack of all trades when those trades are completely different jobs is not a good thing unless you have a specific plan for those skills like joining a startup or an extremely small company. Giving you three months off with full pay no questions asked is really nice but if you've worked under market rate for years after, then I think you've probably more than paid them back by now.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:33
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You were on hiatus for a while. Be vague. You don't owe them the truth and they don't need it.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:37
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It probably depends on who is interviewing you. I would be less judgemental of taking a year off to be depressed and doing nothing than I would be of taking a year to gamble on day trading. Starting a business that never goes anywhere is probably a good excuse with most people.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:52
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While we aren't in an field which was hurt by covid, I would sort of expect most people to not pry if you're vague about why you didn't have a job during 2020-2021 specifically.
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Jul 13, 2021 16:34
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Gonna try that excuse on the seven-month gap in my resume during 2017 (which I might as well turn into an eleven-month gap by leaving off the job I picked up for four months and accomplished nothing at before bailing).
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Jul 13, 2021 16:38
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lean into the failed business, don't mention that you pissed your retirement away cause flags don't get much bigger or redder than that
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Jul 13, 2021 17:28
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also i hope you actually quit day trading you idiot
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Jul 13, 2021 17:38
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Yeah, I feel like “I tried to start my own consulting business but then the pandemic hit and you know…” is basically fine enough to get past most normal people.
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Jul 13, 2021 18:18
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Yeah. Don't say you gambled it away. Failed business is far more forgivable/NBD.
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Jul 13, 2021 18:27
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oliveoil posted:Also, I agree with the people posting this sort of thing. Yeah, everyone's advice has been awesome and I'm 100% on board with the points everyone's made. I'm still waiting on them to get a revised offer. However I got some lovely medical news yesterday from TWO different specialists for two completely different problems. I didn't even mention it in the original post as a factor in my decision because it wasn't, I had just finished up a few doctor visits and was pretty sure I knew what was up and boy howdy was I wrong. I'm going to need a bunch of tests, imaging, and outpatient procedures over the next few months for one issue. 50/50 on a major surgery with a several-month recovery time in the same timeframe for the other. Nothing life threatening thankfully, just a bunch of really unpleasant stuff that's going to keep knocking me out of commission. In my mind, the risk/stability needle has swung all the way to stability. Changing jobs (not to mention health insurance) seems like a terrible idea. I have some scheduled follow up conversations with various medical professionals that may make me feel better about the prospect. Still some positives: - Offer is gentle leverage with current employer (actually getting my first raise in 18 months later this week) - Can decline offer but leave the door open if they're still hiring in 6/12 months - Got my interview sea legs back
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Jul 13, 2021 18:47
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Not to make fun but... oliveoil both paid too much attention to and not enough attention to WSB. It's kinda funny... Sorry about your loss. Hope you had some good loss porn on the way down.  New Yorp New Yorp posted:Yeah, everyone's advice has been awesome and I'm 100% on board with the points everyone's made. I'm still waiting on them to get a revised offer. Medical would make me strongly consider which place is offering the better medical benefits. If your expensive insurance at your current place covers everything and the cheaper insurance at the new place would cover less, then that's a no brainer and vice-versa. Programming is generally a good industry to be in if you have to get medical procedures as there are generous time-off policies as well as it not being too difficult to work through recovery, depending. Also, sorry about the medical poo poo. It sucks. I'm getting older and am getting worried about what's to come for myself.
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Jul 13, 2021 19:04
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kayakyakr posted:Not to make fun but... oliveoil both paid too much attention to and not enough attention to WSB. It's kinda funny... Sorry about your loss. Hope you had some good loss porn on the way down. That's completely fair. I still haven't seen what their full benefits package looks like so that could definitely swing things. If they have an awesome medical package and unlimited vacation, then as long as they're okay with me immediately taking full advantage of unlimited vacation, it's a possibility. I'm not even that old, I'm just one of those people who seems to have a biological age that's running about a decade ahead of my chronological age. Like I have giant kidney stones, a garbage spine, and a prostate the size of a guy in his 50s but I'm not even 40 yet. 
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Jul 13, 2021 19:09
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:That's completely fair. I still haven't seen what their full benefits package looks like so that could definitely swing things. If they have an awesome medical package and unlimited vacation, then as long as they're okay with me immediately taking full advantage of unlimited vacation, it's a possibility. I've had 6 or 7 kidney stones in my life. Started getting them in my mid-20's. Also not yet 40. Spinal issues are one of the biggest health risks, along with carpal tunnel, for developers. Good chairs are worth the cost. I got a Steelcase for $350 used, but it is just about worth the $1000+ they cost new.
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Jul 13, 2021 19:13
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I bought a Steelcase Gesture for my home office at the beginning of the pandemic and I definitely regret not getting it earlier.
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Jul 13, 2021 19:18
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kayakyakr posted:I've had 6 or 7 kidney stones in my life. Started getting them in my mid-20's. Also not yet 40. I started getting kidney stones in my teens. Always been small until now. I have an aeron chair and an uplift standing desk (both expensed!) that have been wonderful but unfortunately my neck is the big problem. The standing desk has helped with my head and neck posture and helped alleviate a bunch of symptoms but recent imaging is showing that it may be time to fuse a few levels. But enough bitching about getting old.
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Jul 13, 2021 19:23
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:But enough bitching about getting old. I think you misconstrue the purpose of this thread.
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Jul 13, 2021 19:58
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Yeah, everyone's advice has been awesome and I'm 100% on board with the points everyone's made. I'm still waiting on them to get a revised offer. It's perfectly reasonable to tell the new job that you can't join for 3ish months due to medical reasons and insurance if you don't mind disclosing and want to go that route. You could also go with personal reasons if you don't want to disclose.
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Jul 13, 2021 20:20
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Alright, thanks everyone, I won't mention gambling away my retirement. Simply omitted the year when applying to my previous employer, think I'll add ~6 months of "Founder, MyCoolName Marketing Agency" when applying to other places. Last time I was looking for a job, I interviewed at Amazon, Google, and Facebook. All of Facebook's interview problems were copied straight from Elements of Programming Interviews and all but two of Amazon's were either from the same book or copied from Cracking the Coding Interview. Only Google's interviewers gave me questions that were not in any book. I was interviewing for the lowest level of software engineer at the time, equivalent of Google's SWE II. I got promoted to the equivalent of Google's SWE III, so assuming I look for similar jobs, would the interview questions be any different or can I still expect everyone but Google to ask me stuff that is literally written down as a numbered question in a book? Also, am I gonna get system design questions too now? Even when I was interviewing other candidates while I was working, those seemed kind of rare so I'm not sure what level they start being asked. I just know I never got a single one at any company the first time I was interviewing. If they're the difference between senior and mid-level engineer though then I might just brush up on them and try to get a sweet senior job somewhere... I never led a team or mentored anyone though so not sure I could actually get it.
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Jul 13, 2021 20:39
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I haven't had an interview loop without a system design question in the entirety of my interview experience after my first role.
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Jul 13, 2021 20:47
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oliveoil posted:Also, am I gonna get system design questions too now? Even when I was interviewing other candidates while I was working, those seemed kind of rare so I'm not sure what level they start being asked. I just know I never got a single one at any company the first time I was interviewing. Using https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Amazon,Google,Facebook&track=Software%20Engineer terminology In my experience a Google L4 interview will include a system design interview although I think it gets weighed less than it would for an L5 interview. I've never been on a hiring committee but I suspect it is a big factor in the decision between making an L4 offer and an L5 offer.
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Jul 13, 2021 21:02
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fourwood posted:Yeah, I feel like “I tried to start my own consulting business but then the pandemic hit and you know…” is basically fine enough to get past most normal people. One guy I interviewed, he had a ~1.5 year gap on his resume, I asked about that and he said something to the effect of "I tried working on my own computer game as a business and that did not pan out" or something like that. He didn't give any more details and I didn't feel like asking. We ended up hiring him, against my advice, and he was average to sub par but did ship like three small greenfield projects in a year Another guy I interviewed quit working for AWS and took like 6 months off, that I can understand, AWS has a reputation for burning up people and spitting them out. He was probably the best hire I've seen in 5 years of regularly interviewing people, never made drama, could speak coherently in a meeting, always shipped his stuff on time, and nothing of his ever broke
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Jul 13, 2021 21:49
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oliveoil posted:Alright, thanks everyone, I won't mention gambling away my retirement. Could you tell us what happened? Not trying to dunk on you, I'm genuinely curious.
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Jul 14, 2021 01:12
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