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It works!   Ignore the weird ductwork at the top, I'm redoing my natural gas generators because I accidentally made them out of copper. But the incubators are functional. As each one is hugged, the gas flows on and turns on the next one. There is a small problem where if it hits an empty incubator, no one will go stand on the button long enough to pass the gas, so I need to manually flip the switch. But when it's working, it works tickety-boo, the rancher will usually just go straight to the next one in the sequence. The left-hand side is a bit of an experiment where I'm seeing how one-way doors in and auto-locked doors out affect things. I can already tell it's a bad idea because it might trap dupes in there when they deliver an egg. And the setup is expandable until you reach the point where you can't hug all the eggs fast enough and the buff starts wearing off the first ones before yo uget back around. e: Maybe if I add a critter sensor, it can keep the cutoff open when the incubator is empty... Dareon fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 20:13
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Graniteman posted:For me, simply deleting the steam mods folder was enough to fix it and force the game to download the latest versions. Thankies! That did it. Now have to figure out which mod is crashing the lot. Got a good hunch tho
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Jul 11, 2021 20:24
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 One of my dupes got way too into murdering an extra puppy.
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Jul 12, 2021 14:13
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Dareon posted:
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Jul 12, 2021 15:02
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Shumagorath posted:It still qualifies as "ranching". I love the manic face they get when overjoyed. Pretty great. Speaking of I've found that if they're going to use the big morale buffs (wind tunnel) I need to give them a bunch of downtime/bedtime otherwise they wind up passing out all over the place. Worth it though because they're so fast (and pretty!) with sparkle streaker. I built a research reactor set up. A bit similar to Francis John, except it's a single reactor. However even when I'm throttling the steam turbines, I'm having trouble getting the steam chamber up to temp. It sucks because I'm still burning 10kg of enriched uranium per day, buti feel like I'm getting ripped off on power production.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:56
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Pre-space gas machine MkII is alive! Only running at a tiny fraction (200g oil/sec), but it's churning out the gas and sulphur so far! Will slowly ramp it up and see what it can do 
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Jul 12, 2021 20:02
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I'm impressed you have kept it up with sour gas. Its the one thing I've never even thought about attempting. Its too precise for my liking.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:34
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temple posted:Its too precise for my liking. The lava chamber is kept >650 degrees, it spikes up to 750 at times. Theres a steel door connecting to a small hotplate at the bottom of the cooker on the right that heats to >550, tho it seems to get hotter. The oil is dripped in from the top, and what I learnt from last time is you need the metal platforms to have 3 vertical spaces gap in case you get a blob of oil & petrol on the same one. The higher the better, 20 blocks high seems to be ok, and the falling oil swaps heat really well with the rising gas. Steam turbine in the middle, the only hard bit was making enough steel for 2 aquatuners and 4 regulators, which seems to be the minimum for this. I'm slowly ramping it up, I'm at 900g/s of oil at the moment, generating just under 5kW atm. and they are not in use all the time by any means - 1 steam turbine would probably be plenty. The cooling tower is pretty simple, pwater at the top (<-4), then ethanol(<-100), then hydrogen(<-200) just for the bottom tiny segment. I'm now pumping the methane all the way up, as the gases fighting was screwing up the flow. A wider cooling tower should work nice with the passive circulation, but pumping 1kg only and snaking up should be as efficient, and I dont care if any methane boils in the tube as it all floats up anyway. Hope to get to 1.5kg/s for gas (for 8.8kW total power output, probably 5kW for use externally), and I'm adding a 500g/s mini petrol converter for future rocket needs. Edit: Can't do petrol conversion, as phase changes don't happen with packets <1kg, so I had 450 degree crude oil not changing state. I need to let it come out then re-pump it, but that needs a space pump to not break. Ah well, that can wait. OzyMandrill fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2021 11:06
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beyonder posted:Thankies! That did it. Now have to figure out which mod is crashing the lot. Got a good hunch tho Glad it worked. I ended up abandoning the DLC after a few hundred cycles after hitting a bug. My sister asteroid was stuck on a "no refined metals" state even when I know there were metals. I just made some, or I just teleported in a bunch of steel. I'll come back to it after some more patching.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:03
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That is a genuinely impressive rig that looks much more stable than the one 10%er I cribbed from Youtube. Does it keep some cold sulphur at the bottom to help stabilize things? I hauled it out back in the base version where it had no use other than melting and evaporating elsewhere as a lovely coolant.
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Jul 13, 2021 23:35
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Shumagorath posted:That is a genuinely impressive rig that looks much more stable than the one 10%er I cribbed from Youtube. Does it keep some cold sulphur at the bottom to help stabilize things? I hauled it out back in the base version where it had no use other than melting and evaporating elsewhere as a lovely coolant. Mk1 tried that, but it was still too unstable - I couldn't stop some methane warming up and getting gas floating back up the column. This time I tried to not fight it and let it vent up as normal, but that choked the cooling tower with the mixed gases. So now in the Mk IIb, I grab the sulphur and methane immediately and track it back and forth to cool the incoming gas. Gas leaves at 40 degrees, sulphur at about 30, so it is doing a decent job of cooling stuff. The odd bubble of natural gas still gets generated rises, but that's fine in this design. I'm using a rodriguez-like separator under the gas pumps to limit the incoming gas to 2 single tiles, which is keeping the sour gas out. Theres a filtered element sensor under, so they only pump when there is a solid line of gas under the separator. Installed camera zoom so I can get the whole thing in:  Currently running at 1.2kg/s in, and I'm installing a mini 10% petrol boiler in the bottom (slight gas leak issue atm - don't use crude oil for liquid locks next to the cold end!)  I just love the industrial design part of this game. Pipes end up where they are due to a mix of design & necessity, and then you have to 'fly' the thing over many cycles to get it up and running, and hopefully ticking along.   
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Jul 14, 2021 09:22
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OzyMandrill posted:Mk1 tried that, but it was still too unstable - I couldn't stop some methane warming up and getting gas floating back up the column. Looking nice!
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Jul 14, 2021 10:27
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And I'm just over here trying to figure out why my aquatuner caught fire.  (I know why, it was down in my CO2 pit. I'd read that people stick their industry down there so the heat doesn't spread, but did not twig to the fact that that's because it tends to keep the heat in the buildings)
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Jul 14, 2021 11:46
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Dareon posted:And I'm just over here trying to figure out why my aquatuner caught fire. Aquatuners get hot by the way. Hot to the point where using steam turbines to cool them down is a legitimate strategy, and frankly it's either turn the heat into electricity or vent hot coolant into space when you're working with an aquatuner.
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Jul 14, 2021 15:55
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A good aquatuner setup is the first step in making industrial machines, everything comes down to just heating & cooling stuff, and then moving the stuff around. Always make aquatuners from steel, and put them in a little steam room:  That way you they stay cool enough that they can run 100% and give a lot of cooling, sometimes almost enough to power themselves. It really does not matter where you build industry at first - The back end of ranches is a good place. Eventually you have a cooling loop snaking through the base so put them wherever. Everything is temporary in the first few hundred cycles.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:06
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OzyMandrill posted:A good aquatuner setup is the first step in making industrial machines, everything comes down to just heating & cooling stuff, and then moving the stuff around. I'm not quite to steel yet in this base, I just hit the oil biome. Hit a big cold biome with both AETNs in just before, so I'm setting those up. Might use the cold biome as space for another SPOM to fuel the AETNs and use them to cool some industry. Or I do have a hydrogen vent here somewhere. I have extended my cooling loop all the way down to use the 3-degree lake down there (The oil biome was leaking through because a ruin spawned on the abyssalite, so most of it melted before I got there and I needed to filter some pwater off my first pool of oil). Wound up tuning the loop by replacing the radiant pipes with regular ones because it was too cold and stifling my decorative plants. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around aquatuners and steam turbines. Aquatuners, yeah, that's logical, they chill the water and dump the heat into their vicinity. Heat deletion, though? That's crazy talk, we obey the laws of thermodynamics in this house. I don't know how I'd deal with waste heat without it, though, maybe a huge brick of tiles with a loop running through it, deconstruct it and drop the hot rocks into a pit occasionally? Hmm. Auto-sweepers arrayed around it, pass the hot rocks through temperature sensors, if they reach an arbitrary cool enough temperature, have an alert pop up so I can designate a new block to be built and dismantle the old... Interesting idea, but I don't think solid cooling is very efficient.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:46
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One way of getting rid of heat without using steam turbines is injecting it into a gas or liquid, then dump it into space. You waste resources though, but it works.
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Jul 14, 2021 22:50
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Turbines don't delete energy, they convert heat energy into electricity, just like real life. They pull the heat out of steam, spitting out cooler steam.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:15
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Turbines don't delete energy, they convert heat energy into electricity, just like real life. They pull the heat out of steam, spitting out cooler steam. Not entirely. The energy a real turbine extracts from the steam gets turned into electricity, which gets used by an endpoint electricity consumer, where it turns back into heat. ONI lets you run a turbine and extract electricity even with no consumers, which means the energy from the steam just disappears. It may not be common knowledge, but all energy in the real world ends up as heat. If you run a 1KW blender to make a smoothie, it is also a 1KW heater that heats the smoothie 1 degree C per liter per second. If you put the blender and smoothie in a sealed box, that box would act like a 1KW space heater for the room it was in.
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Jul 15, 2021 01:57
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Graniteman posted:It may not be common knowledge, but all energy in the real world ends up as heat. If you run a 1KW blender to make a smoothie, it is also a 1KW heater that heats the smoothie 1 degree C per liter per second. If you put the blender and smoothie in a sealed box, that box would act like a 1KW space heater for the room it was in. I'm fairly certain this is not correct. Most electrical devices/motors/etc. have an efficiency to them, where they'll convert X% of electricity into waste heat and Y% of electricity into performing work on an object. If we use a motor to lift an object, for instance, we have spent electrical energy to add gravitational potential energy to the object. The object in this case does not get hot, but the motor does. If the motor were to convert all of its electrical energy into heat, we would end up with extra energy. Broadly: Energy in (electrical motor) = Energy out (raised object + waste heat) If the waste heat output were equivalent to all of the energy generated by the motor, then the motor would do no work on the object and it could not be raised. In the example of the smoothie, energy goes into breaking the bonds that hold the ingredients together. That necessarily means that the waste heat cannot be exactly equal to the motor power.
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Jul 15, 2021 06:04
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Dirk the Average posted:I'm fairly certain this is not correct. Most electrical devices/motors/etc. have an efficiency to them, where they'll convert X% of electricity into waste heat and Y% of electricity into performing work on an object. If we use a motor to lift an object, for instance, we have spent electrical energy to add gravitational potential energy to the object. The object in this case does not get hot, but the motor does. If the motor were to convert all of its electrical energy into heat, we would end up with extra energy. Broadly: In the end it all turns to heat, there are just delays along the way where the energy is stored in some temporary state. I’m not saying it’s all waste heat, I’m saying that your equation Energy in = work done + waste heat “Work done” also results in heat, sooner or later. Your example is correct that the raised object gains potential energy, which is stored energy and not heat. But when the object falls, that potential energy is released, and ends up as heat somewhere. If it falls freely, it heats the air, and the ground that it hits. If it falls while attached to a pulley and gear system, it can do work on another object, but then it just moves the energy to somewhere else and ends up as heat there, eventually (while also heating the pulley and gear system as it falls). If the object slides down a hill and comes to a stop halfway down the slope, the difference in potential energy between those two locations is exactly equal to the heating done on the slope and air through friction. In the case of the smoothie, you have a motor doing what is called “shaft work” on the fluid. Yes, some of the electrical power is lost as waste heat to the motor but most of it is input to the fluid. The shaft work has to stay in the fluid. In the short term, some of that energy is melting ice crystals (so, it is soaked up by the enthalpy of fusion to melt) but the energy is still going into the fluid the same as if it were a heater. Some of the energy is used to break up chunks, which puts the material at a higher entropy state, or break bonds, which ends up at a higher energy state (which will, sooner or later, be released). This is the consequence of the first law of thermodynamics that is not intuitive to people, which is why I mention it. Energy is not destroyed, but transformed, and the final transformation is into heat. And each intermediate transformation loses some heat to entropy (unusable heat) as well, so the conversions are lossy at each step (second law of thermodynamics). Source: I have a PhD in chemical engineering. The first chemical engineering course is basically spending a semester on mass and energy balances where you draw a box around a system and add up the energy flows in, out, and accumulated. The basic math is simple, but learning to draw the box around the system and identify energy (or mass) flows is unintuitive. Some other examples off the top of my head If you have a vitamix blender, the manual says you can use it to cook soup. This is true of any tank where you have a motor mixing stuff. You can’t cool a kitchen by opening the fridge door. The fridge coils release the both the heat taken from the interior air as it chills, plus the electricity draw from the wall. A 100 watt light bulb is a 100 watt space heater. The light emitted is absorbed by an object in the room, heating it. Every watt-hour of power in your phone battery is released as heat after doing work to drive calculations or emit light from the display or whatever. If you wind a mechanical clock, you store energy in the spring. All of that stored energy is released as heat (heating the gears by friction, or air hit by the watch hands) by the time the watch runs out. If you run a liquid pump, the pump power draw gets split up: Waste heat in the motor Maybe potential energy in the fluid if you pump it uphill (later to be released). Moving fluid heats the pipe wall through friction. Shearing fluid heats the fluid itself as it flows through the pipe. Turbulent flow gives you smaller and smaller vortexes until the smallest are just thermal vibration. Stamping a shape into metal heats the metal. It doesn’t change it to a higher energy form of metal through some chemical reaction, so the energy draw of the stamping machine must be turned into heat after each smoosh of the metal. Maybe it’s natural to mentally emphasize the energy of some process being stored somewhere. But as I think of examples, mostly the energy turns to heat pretty much right away. There are of course big exceptions, like raising stuff up to store potential energy, or putting in energy for endothermic chemical reaction. And there are fine nuances to some of it as you do the accounting for where the energy goes. But it’s all just pauses on the way to the heat death of the universe
Graniteman fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 13:55
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Aquatuners are magical machines that delete heat though. You just need a second aquatuner to cool down the steam engines and boom, you are the master of cooling.
Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 14:31
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All energy converts to heat eventually sure, on a long enough time scale, but thats not always a useful point depending on what you are simulating/analyzing. Also heat isn't what I'd call the 'final' form of energy unless you're looking at very long time scales. Heat energy can absolutely be used to do work, thus converting it back into a more storable/usable form. Thats exactly what steam turbines are for in fact!
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Jul 15, 2021 14:45
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Funny thing from playing this game and learning about heat and stuff. I was playing this other sci-fi game where you can fly a space ship and a level has you attack an asteroid base that puts it radiators outside in the vacuum of space. I just laughed. Atleast I figured it would just overheat.
Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 14:53
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SporkChan posted:All energy converts to heat eventually sure, on a long enough time scale, but thats not always a useful point depending on what you are simulating/analyzing. It's not always useful, but it's very often useful! You can always look at a system and think about where the energy is going, either in steady state, or before and after a process is completed. In many cases, the after-state is going to be hotter, depending on how you draw the box around the system. Again, a light bulb is a space heater. Also, a space heater is also a light bulb where the photons are in infrared. If you draw a mental box around a steam turbine, plus the wires, plus the light bulb it powers, then the energy into that box (burning coal) equals the energy coming out of the box (heat from the friction in the turbine, plus heating the wires for transmission, plus heat from the light bulb as it operates). When you burn fuel in a car, the heat drives gas expansion, which turns the crankshaft, etc. Draw a mental box around the car at steady state as you drive, and the energy coming out of that box is: Hot exhaust gases (at a different enthalpy than the fuel) Heating the air you drive through via friction Frictional heating of the engine components If you are driving uphill, you are also accumulating potential energy to the car. If you are accellerating, you are accumulating kinetic energy. If you are braking, you are heating the brake pads. Add all these up (and probably a few more that I forget) and you get the energy of the fuel you are burning. So, I disagree with you that it's "on a long enough time scale." The time scale for work to turn into heat is usually shorter than you would intuit. Again, PhD chemical engineer here. I do biotech for a living, not thermo, but this stuff is our bread and butter. I'll leave it here since this is a thread about a video game which is only thematically related to thermodynamics, but of course it's interesting stuff to me.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:34
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Tenzarin posted:Funny thing from playing this game and learning about heat and stuff. I was playing this other sci-fi game where you can fly a space ship and a level has you attack an asteroid base that puts it radiators outside in the vacuum of space. I just laughed. Atleast I figured it would just overheat. Your reply made me curious so I did some googling and it turns out your other video game is not as wrong as you think.  Those white panels in the middle, the large 3x8 panels, as well as the outer panels perpendicular to the solar panels, are radiators for dissipating heat into space. Heat is transported through the station in the form of liquid ammonia. An asteroid colony would require some massive panels though.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:46
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Yes, entropy is always increasing as systems inevitably lose energy into the environment and some day we will all be food for the great worm that shall hatch and devour all, but how does that help me make glass?
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Jul 15, 2021 15:50
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Graniteman posted:It's not always useful, but it's very often useful! You can always look at a system and think about where the energy is going, either in steady state, or before and after a process is completed. In many cases, the after-state is going to be hotter, depending on how you draw the box around the system. I get what you're saying, and to be fair, I'm not nearly as well versed in thermodynamics (biomedical engineer also working in biotech, but on passive devices whose temperature is controlled by the body). It's a different way of looking at things on a macro scale rather than on individual components. For a steam turbine, the electricity generated absolutely creates heat where it's used, but that's not necessarily important when considering how the turbine works to remove thermal kinetic energy from steam and convert it to electrical energy. Aquatuners, notably, do not produce any heat based on the electricity that they consume and only produce heat based on the cooling that they perform on the liquid (and the electrical drain has nothing to do with the amount of cooling). Really, they're the bullshit magic in the system that allows for heat deletion to occur. Edit: I guess my point here is that because ONI doesn't map electricity consumption to heat creation in the same way that reality does, you sometimes just have to look at an individual component rather than the entire system in order to see where the bullshit is happening. Dirk the Average fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 18:32
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I've been dabbling in ONI since the steam sale and I'm about 100 days into my second game. First game ended with a recursive vomit cycle culminating in mass starvation, so the second one is going better. My first real existential threat this time was heat buildup, which I gather is not a surprise to anyone who has ever played this game. My crops hit 87 degrees and suddenly my entire food supply was cut off, so I had to race to try to find cooling solutions. I have read a little bit about general guidance but I'm trying not to slavishly follow base exact building guides and setups. The prevailing wisdom seemed to be that the ice-makers and fans and other in-place cooling machines are a trap because they make heat themselves, so I decided to try to figure out how to do it with the ice biome. I had already discovered one ice biome at the far edge of the map, so I finished digging an access tunnel over to it and tried to create a water cooled loop that runs around my farms with cold water(radiant pipes near the farm) and then back out to the ice where I built the water cooler thing(insulated pipes for transport). There was no initial indication that this machine wanted to be submerged in water, so I had an abortive first setup where the cooler immediately overheated and was shooting gouts of steam, burning everyone who tried to fix it. I tore that one down and set it up again properly literally half a day from starvation with less than 5000 calories for 12 colonists, down from about 200k when the crisis started. Most of my base is still pretty warm and I have no idea how to manage a larger scale solution here, it's probably gonna get really bad again. Between the water cooler and the metal refining station, the new larger power draws are also starting to stress my electrical system and I had to build a third coal generator and third rat wheel. It's starting to get hard to source coal so I have a bit of a fire under my rear end to move to a new energy source. I've been trying to pump and store small pockets of hydrogen near the top of the map but it's pretty cumbersome and when I tried to use the small amount I had stored, I noticed that the hydrogen generator just burns 24/7 regardless of demand and I had no good way to handle that so I turned it off again. I've started digging a deep downward exploratory shaft looking for oil, but I've had a growing problem with all the CO2 settling down in the lower third of my base, and it's getting harder and harder to dig down into a deep shaft of full of unbreathable atmo. At one point I tried a big brain idea of building some gas tanks and using a pump to suck up all the CO2 and sequester it, but after filling up 4 tanks and making almost no difference, I gave up. I thought about using wall tiles and a high pressure vent to create a perfectly safe gas storage chamber, but I can't get my hands on plastic for the vent. I feel like the exosuits would probably solve a lot of my problems but I have a feeling even without researching it that I don't have half the stuff to make one. I don't have a reed farm setup for making clothing or textiles and I'll bet it wants plastic anyway. I have the means to expand my farming to include a variety of other crops( currently only farming mealwood and the berries), but I don't know if it's worth focusing on if I have a looming energy crisis. I think I'll try to send out more exploratory tunnels near my main base and try to grab as much close coal as there is left while I continue doing my best to dig down, connecting to natural pockets of poopy air. I don't think I'm gonna make it another 100 days. Scoss fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 18:35
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Graniteman posted:Again, PhD chemical engineer here. I initially saw seven new posts and I was excited to read patch notes. Then I saw your post and was disappointed about a derail about fake thermodynamics in a video game. But I kept reading and got excited again because you took me back to sophomore year of my engineering program (b.s. ee here). That was some good posting. Still want those patch notes though! Where are they!?!?
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Jul 15, 2021 18:35
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Scoss posted:I don't think I'm gonna make it another 100 days. A few things I'd look into here. 1. Carbon Skimmers - they can be helpful for removing excess CO2. You can also vent it into space. 2. Use Polluted Water instead of Water for cooling loops; it has a lower freezing temperature so you're less likely to break your pipes (and water is more useful elsewhere) 3. Insulated Tiles are really, really good. I'll let you figure out how and where to use them, but some things are more temperature sensitive and need to be insulated, and other things don't mind a little more heat.
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Jul 15, 2021 18:46
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kanonvandekempen posted:Your reply made me curious so I did some googling and it turns out your other video game is not as wrong as you think. There's a sci-fi space combat game called Children of a Dead Earth where the author created a physics simulation first and then tried to figure out how working combat spaceships would actually look within realistic constraints. The result is that ships have thin, minimal armor (usually amorphous carbon, diamond or aluminum) over a convex shape to minimize its mass. Most defense is provided by armor sloping, or presenting a minimal cross-section to the enemy. The ships are long not only because of the favorable cross-section, but to keep the crew compartment away from the nuclear reactors because there isn't weight to spare for substantial shielding. Ships also have 50% or more of their mass devoted to reaction mass, heated by nuclear fission reactors and sent out through nozzles to propel the ship. But IMO the coolest part of the aesthetic are the radiators. They can be retracted temporarily for emergencies, but sooner or later they will need to be extended or the ship overheats. The radiators for the crew compartment look like the ones on the ISS in your photo, while the ones for high-energy systems like the nuclear reactors glow red-hot.  Also, fan redesigns of the ships to optimize them even further, to increase the sloping and increase the aspect ratio of the ships have a cool Buck Rogers rocket ships but with glowing fins look to them:  The lack of space radiators for cooling in Oxygen Not Included is actually something that has been on my wish-list since they added the asteroid surface back in early access!
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Jul 15, 2021 19:04
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kanonvandekempen posted:Your reply made me curious so I did some googling and it turns out your other video game is not as wrong as you think. I bet they don't even ranch hatches...
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Jul 15, 2021 19:10
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Scoss posted:I don't think I'm gonna make it another 100 days. Dealing with heat properly is the main hurdle to this game. The only real solution is the aquatuner/turbine setup. It needs 1200 steel, 400 plastic (which can be got from dreckos) and a bunch of refined metal for wiring and radiative pipes. Anything else is temporary (except maybe an AETN powered from excess hydrogen from a SPOM, that's a pretty awesome infinite cooling source tbh) I find myself doing everything quick and dirty up to the point I get the first proper cooling loop in, as until then you are just sliding down the disaster curve of boiling your base alive. I recommend Francis John 'getting over the midgame hump' as a basic intro to a steam turbine setup. You don't have to follow his method all the time - but it is a good thing to do once. Tbh he faffs about getting oil when you can do it all with a small pond of pwater for cooling the metal refinery and a single glossy drecko ranch. I just aim to make some steel as I get lime from eggshells, and once you get the plastic, research and steel, bang up cooler right by the main water pool (which I'm also using to feed the refinery) and start cooling that down. Power & CO2.. When you say the H generators don;t shut off - neither do coal ones (unless they run out). They don't care how full batteries are, they will just keep burning that coal all day long. You need smart batteries and automation - that will shut them off, and massively reduce the coal use & the CO2 generated. But coal doesn't last that long either (unless you have hatch farms to keep em going).
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Jul 15, 2021 20:26
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Tenzarin posted:I bet they don't even ranch hatches...
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Jul 15, 2021 20:38
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@Scoss You might be over-worrying about the early game too. You get good technology solutions to all the problems later, so rush to get reserach/advanced materials instead of wasting time on every more complex stop-gap measures. The complicated sour-gas boiler I made was done with just 8 dupes and a base that looks like this:  An absolute mess. I have literally just started giving them nice bedrooms, but most of my power in the early game came from wood burners (very little coal on a forest start). I still have the original lavatories. All the steel came from the single refinery that is pumped from the main water dump underneath. Just make sure you get 1200 steel & 400 plastic before that sump reaches much past 40 degrees and you're golden. Here's my foolproof glossy drecko farm:  The only tricky bit is keeping the line of mealwood in the middle cool and under a single layer of CO2. I'm now on turn 600, and have *261 tonnes of plastic* sitting around (and around 200 reed fibre). I think it's time to upgrade my ladders for a start... Fake Edit: Not saying that early stop-gap measures are useless, not at all. A cold biome will provide plenty of cooling for a base for 200 cycles, and melting it gives you twice the water that mining it out would leave:  Just build your oxygen generation next to it, and pass it through with radiative piping. Then as you oxygenate your base, you also cool everything at the same time, should keep everything in the 20s quite nicely. This one has a second life from the AETN that I am now switching on as I've melted all the ice.
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Jul 15, 2021 21:06
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Aquatuner, steam turbine, radiant pipes, blah, blah yeah sure, fine. But only after you take care of the basics, which should give a lot more time than 100 cycles before heat becomes a problem. This may be an unnecessary suggestion, but a person really has to use the temperature overlay to see what exactly is producing heat, and where, and how they can at least somewhat isolate it. Things can be moved and the aforementioned insulated tiles can help a LOT to prevent heat problems.
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Jul 15, 2021 21:15
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TehSaurus posted:got excited again because you took me back to sophomore year of my engineering program It really is a great game if you love to dork out about this stuff. I love that you can make a counterflow heat exchanger, and it's actually the superior design just like in real life. e.g. the Francis John classic petroleum boiler setup uses a counterflow design where the outflowing hot petroleum heats the incoming cool crude oil. This principle works anywhere you have two things exchanging heat: have the incoming cool side exchanging heat with the outgoing hot side and it will work better than having the incoming hot side exchanging with the incoming cool side. I found this guy's video about it which I skimmed and it seems to show how it works in the game: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108657-counterflow-heat-exchange-concept-basics-and-demo/ Scoss posted:I don't think I'm gonna make it another 100 days. Good post! This is what ONI is all about. You've got some good advice above from Dirk. I think your idea of cooling by routing through a cold biome is a great short term fix. The long term fix is almost always going to be an aquatuner/turbine combo, which you may struggle to get dialed in without the internet. You could also solve the heat problem with the anti-entropy thermo nullifiers you find in the cold biomes, but they don't really scale up like aquatuners.
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Jul 15, 2021 21:20
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Scoss posted:I don't think I'm gonna make it another 100 days. Probably the best things you can research is automation and smart batteries. Smart batteries have only half the capacity of a big battery, but they'll output a binary signal based on their charge level. Hook one to a generator with automation wire and you can have the battery turn off the generator once it's fully charged, and turn it on again when it hits an arbitrary low point.
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Jul 15, 2021 22:12
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I like to dig to the surface asap. Venting co2 and annoying liquid to space solves a lot of problems in my play style.
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Jul 16, 2021 00:52
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