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That gibberling nerf is one of the most brutal I've seen. I dont buy that apoth is necessarily dead, renew could still make it sometimes.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 18:34
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Not sure how else they could have been nerfed gibbering though.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:36
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They could have taken away its 1 attack. e: I'm not sure that Gibberling is dead. What it does can't really be replaced by any other cards we currently have. I think Token Druid still wants to play it, but it will be a serious hit to the deck's winrate. sirtommygunn fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 18:42
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The Apotheosis nerf is pretty bad especially as they noted the Apoth/Samuro combo which has bailed me out a whole lot of times. Renew costing 2 is not great but I'd probably still keep it in. That Gibberling nerf though... yeah, that card is DEAD. I see why they had to do it, though.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:47
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skaboomizzy posted:That Gibberling nerf though... yeah, that card is DEAD. I see why they had to do it, though.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:14
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quote:Adjusted Darkmoon Prizes to offer better Prizes for players on the bottom half of the leaderboard. hm
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Jul 14, 2021 19:20
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sirtommygunn posted:They could have taken away its 1 attack. I agree, I don’t think Gibberling is dead, just slower. You can still have the same total blowout turns just 1 turn later. Not being able to do it turn 1 will definitely hurt the win rate though.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:35
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NorgLyle posted:I wonder if they could have made its spellburst only trigger once per turn as an alternate way to kill the thing they didn't want while still leaving it as a 1-drop. Honestly, I feel like this would have killed it more than the mana cost does. Gibberling is good for turn one blowouts, but after that it's still one card that can turn into a threatening board with a few more cards. If you can only spellburst it once per turn, it doesn't really win games on turn one if you have the coin and it doesn't really build a board because it's just two small minions. Gibberling's harder to fit into those late turns at two mana, but at least you could make a board with it if you have to.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:16
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AnacondaHL posted:20.8.2 Patch Notes out ok ok... apo still too strong. should've bumped the cost as well. and they still haven't deleted priest yet.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:37
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Renew is borderline playable still (although it makes Wandmaker unplayable as a side effect), Apotheosis absolutely isn't. I'm pretty sure Priest is pretty thoroughly murdered, it has almost no early game and without Apo has lost the ability to properly stabilize anymore.
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Jul 14, 2021 22:29
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Last King posted:ok ok... apo still too strong. should've bumped the cost as well. Nah, the 1-attack debuff scales hard in the infamous Samuro+Apotheosis combo. Setting up 3+ health minions is much easier than 4+ health.
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Jul 14, 2021 22:39
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orangelex44 posted:I'm pretty sure Priest is pretty thoroughly murdered donaldglover_GOOD.gif
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Jul 14, 2021 22:45
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Don't forget to have a Nozdormu deck for tomorrow, we get a special quest to play games with him.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:05
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sirtommygunn posted:Don't forget to have a Nozdormu deck for tomorrow, we get a special quest to play games with him. Or just put him into any deck. You don’t even need to win.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:37
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AnacondaHL posted:20.8.2 Patch Notes out First entirely uncontentious patch in forever. Literally, is there a human on the planet, even habitual Priest players who aren't like 'Yeah, about right.'.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:57
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Shockeh posted:First entirely uncontentious patch in forever. Literally, is there a human on the planet, even habitual Priest players who aren't like 'Yeah, about right.'. I think the Apotheosis nerf went too far. It's only +3 stats for 3 mana, which is loving abysmal. edit: and before anyone whines about the lifesteal, Paladin gets +3 stats and a card for only 2 mana.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:55
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Nerf hand of adal again, yeah? Serious answer is it should be 4 stats and lifesteal for 3, and 2 stats and draw for 2.
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Jul 15, 2021 01:19
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Yeah but Hand of A'dal can't be combo'd with Samuro to fully heal you on top of clearing your opponent's board. In a vacuum, yeah, Apotheosis doesn't come close to Hand, but these cards aren't in a vacuum.
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Jul 15, 2021 01:47
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"While Priest's identity looks different in future expansions..." gives me some hope for the upcoming set, but can a class's entire identity be changed with single expansion and without any more changes to the current cards? And I don't mean more nerfs, as fun as it is to jump on the Priest hate bandwagon, but if they finally were able to give the class a solid mid-range option and reign in its worst fatigue tendencies to bring its control options more in line with the other classes, that would be the best thing for the game right now. I kind of checked out of HS because of this meta but I was just thinking about how much better the game is these days than back in the Brode era. And not just because they actually are doing balance changes, but all the extra stuff with the alternate heroes and cosmetic rewards on the track, the new modes, and just the fact that there's more content in the game now than ever before makes it feel like a well-supported game with more than just a small team and token consideration from the company behind it. I mean, I'm sure they always valued it as a cash cow, but you'd never think so from the limited amount of content updates it used to receive.
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Jul 15, 2021 02:05
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A quest to do 3 duels huh, well it can be fun and I have a ton of spare gold. I think the last guy kinda gave up when I played my fifth Kalimos, on turn 7.
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Jul 15, 2021 02:12
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Shockeh posted:First entirely uncontentious patch in forever. Literally, is there a human on the planet, even habitual Priest players who aren't like 'Yeah, about right.'. I mean, there's basically nothing left that will consistently beat Face Hunter now so get ready for even more of those fucks
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Jul 15, 2021 03:08
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orangelex44 posted:I think the Apotheosis nerf went too far. It's only +3 stats for 3 mana, which is loving abysmal. If only Paladin didn't suck in this meta....
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Jul 15, 2021 03:29
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I mean, there's basically nothing left that will consistently beat Face Hunter now so get ready for even more of those fucks So, at the risk of sounding like someone who would eventually homogenise everything (and I'm not, I care only about outliers) I'd say that's more a problem with Face Hunter than a problem with lack of Face Hunter counter-options. We shouldn't want an identity that says 'I only win by Blue-style counterplay until we go to fatigue' but we also shouldn't want an Identity that says 'I only win by ensuring your deck never gets off the ground'. Both of these are undesirable, because they're too binary for an interesting game to play. And yes, the risk again is that you go too far and make everyone mid-range samey. There's a balance to be found.
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Jul 15, 2021 04:22
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I mean, there's basically nothing left that will consistently beat Face Hunter now so get ready for even more of those fucks You can absolutely build decks that beat Face Hunter it’s just building decks that beat Face Hunter as well as Shamans and Warriors
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Jul 15, 2021 04:32
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I mean, there's basically nothing left that will consistently beat Face Hunter now so get ready for even more of those fucks if this means priest disappears completely from ranked, wild, etc. then i'm ok with that. gently caress. priest.
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Jul 15, 2021 04:33
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:You can absolutely build decks that beat Face Hunter it’s just building decks that beat Face Hunter as well as Shamans and Warriors i don't know if it's worth trying to reason with someone who thinks you can't beat face hunter, not even with advanced tactics like "play a single big taunt"
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Jul 15, 2021 04:39
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i don't know if it's worth trying to reason with someone who thinks you can't beat face hunter, not even with advanced tactics like "play a single big taunt" Face Hunter is fast but it’s got some issues queuing into clown druid. Namely Lake Thresher and a board full of 8/8 taunts
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Jul 15, 2021 04:43
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Last King posted:if this means priest disappears completely from ranked, wild, etc. then i'm ok with that. gently caress. priest. There's worse evils than Priest. Despite all the bitching, Priest was very much not a problem for anyone except top Legend/competitive players - and even then, it's not necessarily unhealthy for a control deck to be the top dog for a while. Compared to other top meta decks, this last month has been pretty benign by Hearthstone standards (even recent standards - it didn't take long for people to forget Paladin and what an actually repressive class did to ladder). Hell, today's Priest is far from the worst the class has been (I loathed Big Priest, mostly) and debatably Priest hasn't actually been the worst control class historically (hello again Boom Warrior). I realize I'm in the minority (at least here), but I like playing Priest and a slower control game. I like having a hand of stuff to decide between instead of being in topdeck mode. I like getting rewarded for knowing my opponent's deck and plays in order to have appropriate counters when needed. I like actually getting to play through my deck instead of only seeing eight cards. I like riding the line between immediate stabilization and long-term value. Four-turn games are loving boring, and queuing into matchups that are immediately decided on whether each player got the right mulligan is abysmal. I think it's regrettable that Priest is never allowed the cards to go into a midrange (or, God forbid, a tempo) gameplan, but I feel that having an evergreen and playable Control Priest is just a healthy for the game as having an evergreen and playable Face Hunter.
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Jul 15, 2021 05:05
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The problem isn't a slow control game. The problem is that priest is playing 60 cards a game, discounting them to half price or better, and never actually having a win condition that isn't boring you to death.
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Jul 15, 2021 05:43
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Caught Cubs Posting
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orangelex44 posted:There's worse evils than Priest. Despite all the bitching, Priest was very much not a problem for anyone except top Legend/competitive players Are you talking purely in terms of winrate? Because I would argue that Priest is also very much a problem for players like me who just want to do their dailies and rank up to D5 every month, or to put it another way, the way a class feels like to play against is important, and there's even numbers backing this up as someone mentioned a few pages ago with the VS stats showing a significant amount of opponents instantly conceding when they queue into Priest. quote:I realize I'm in the minority (at least here), but I like playing Priest and a slower control game. I like having a hand of stuff to decide between instead of being in topdeck mode. I like getting rewarded for knowing my opponent's deck and plays in order to have appropriate counters when needed. I like actually getting to play through my deck instead of only seeing eight cards. I like riding the line between immediate stabilization and long-term value. Four-turn games are loving boring, and queuing into matchups that are immediately decided on whether each player got the right mulligan is abysmal. I think it's regrettable that Priest is never allowed the cards to go into a midrange (or, God forbid, a tempo) gameplan, but I feel that having an evergreen and playable Control Priest is just a healthy for the game as having an evergreen and playable Face Hunter. Control is my preferred archetype too, but for want of a better way to describe my thoughts on the matter I'm going to say that Priest isn't a control deck, it just gives you the illusion you're playing one. Control decks have early-game tools to stabilize and late game threats like big, sticky minions, along with some value generators. When you build the deck you need to adjust the proportions of each for the current meta, so what you put into your deck matters. And when you play against aggro and you fail to stabilize, you know there's nothing left in your deck that can save you so you concede on T6 or whenever. Conversely, when you play against another control deck, both of you are aware of each other's big threats and value generators, and there's a certain amount of finesse involved with making sure you don't run out of stuff before they do. And again, there comes a point where you or your opponent both understand they've lost the game because they have nothing left. But when Priest plays against aggro and gets to the point where any other control deck would concede, half the time the Priest players themselves don't even know if they've lost at that point because they might be able to generate a bunch of random stuff to stay in the game. And when Priest plays against control, again, there is no point where both players understand that the threats or value generators have been exhausted, so there's no late game concede either. And so the Priest player keeps the game going, all the while thinking their choices matter, but when your generous random card generator only ever offers you three different ways to prolong the game and zero ways to bring it to a close, what choice do you have? And what did it matter what you put in your deck at the start of the game? I think infinite value generators have always been bad for the game, and Blizzard has always dumped a disproportionate number of them into the Priest class. I would love for Control Priest to play more like the other classes, because I'd love to play it, but the length and uncertainty of the experience is a huge turn-off for me, and also bad for the game.
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Jul 15, 2021 06:33
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Kalko posted:But when Priest plays against aggro and gets to the point where any other control deck would concede, half the time the Priest players themselves don't even know if they've lost at that point because they might be able to generate a bunch of random stuff to stay in the game. And when Priest plays against control, again, there is no point where both players understand that the threats or value generators have been exhausted, so there's no late game concede either. And so the Priest player keeps the game going, all the while thinking their choices matter, but when your generous random card generator only ever offers you three different ways to prolong the game and zero ways to bring it to a close, what choice do you have? And what did it matter what you put in your deck at the start of the game? This is the crux of it. Why bother thinking about what's in your deck, when you can just 'I'll just have a sideboard of the entire Priest card pool' by putting all the generators in, or at least all the reliable ones that fire on Battlecry/Cast.
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Jul 15, 2021 07:44
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Special quest for Noz today that is instead of your normal daily. At least it's 1500 xp.
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Jul 15, 2021 08:17
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Played 3 games, only one opponent had Noz in their deck so the other 2 were just regular games. Ah well.
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Jul 15, 2021 12:16
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Amoeba102 posted:Special quest for Noz today that is instead of your normal daily. At least it's 1500 xp. Mine is 1800 edit: oh, that's probably the tavern pass, huh?
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Jul 15, 2021 12:42
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Three Noz games down, the effect never triggered. Better luck next year!
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Jul 15, 2021 12:48
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Devo posted:The problem isn't a slow control game. The problem is that priest is playing 60 cards a game, discounting them to half price or better, and never actually having a win condition that isn't boring you to death.
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Jul 15, 2021 13:03
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Kalko posted:Are you talking purely in terms of winrate? Because I would argue that Priest is also very much a problem for players like me who just want to do their dailies and rank up to D5 every month, or to put it another way, the way a class feels like to play against is important, and there's even numbers backing this up as someone mentioned a few pages ago with the VS stats showing a significant amount of opponents instantly conceding when they queue into Priest. Shockeh posted:This is the crux of it. Why bother thinking about what's in your deck, when you can just 'I'll just have a sideboard of the entire Priest card pool' by putting all the generators in, or at least all the reliable ones that fire on Battlecry/Cast. I've played a decent amount of a N'Zoth Control Priest since the last expansion, and coming from the other end of this discussion I can tell you that a) I am quite consistent in what my endgame threats are: N'Zoth, what I get off of my two dragon cards (which, yes, is technically random but it's a very small pool right now), and if all else fails, fatigue (which is probably why lots of people think I'm not actually playing to a wincon); and b) aggro stabilization depends much more on whether I draw a couple extremely specific cards (Hysteria or the Samuro combo) than if I can generate anything. The actual randomness in the deck comes with the hand disruption cards (Mutanis and I also play Vol'jin - but bear in mind that Mutanis is popular across many decks), and in what my tools are through the midgame. I don't concede much but I fail to see how that's thinking "my last threat is gone, but the opponent might have a poo poo hand right now and I can still topdeck a decent minion that sticks around to hit face" is supposed to be a giant problem. And as far as matchups go... https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-202/ ...the latest VS report has Control Priest as second most played across all ranks (although 2-4 are effectively in a three-way tie), with a sub-.500 winrate in D1-D4 and even just a .510 winrate at top Legend (it's only a T2 deck!). It's matchup spread against specific decks is also relatively fair. Even if you were to make the claim that the deck was somehow defining top-level play, it clearly has available counters that are available to keep it from dominating.
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Jul 15, 2021 13:07
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Toebone posted:Three Noz games down, the effect never triggered. Better luck next year!
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Jul 15, 2021 13:13
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:You can absolutely build decks that beat Face Hunter it’s just building decks that beat Face Hunter as well as Shamans and Warriors So we are just heading to yet another trifecta meta again. Why are people acting like this is a good thing?
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Jul 15, 2021 13:17
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My Party Paladin deck beats Hunters and Shamans just fine, its just been limited by awful matchups against Priest, Token Druid, and Rush Warrior. ### Party Pals # Class: Paladin # Format: Standard # Year of the Gryphon # # 2x (1) Animated Broomstick # 2x (1) Righteous Protector # 1x (2) Murgur Murgurgle # 1x (2) Redscale Dragontamer # 2x (2) Wandmaker # 1x (3) Archdruid Naralex # 1x (3) Death's Head Cultist # 2x (3) Goody Two-Shields # 2x (3) Venomous Scorpid # 1x (4) Circus Amalgam # 2x (4) Southsea Scoundrel # 2x (5) Aldor Truthseeker # 2x (5) Carousel Gryphon # 1x (5) High Abbess Alura # 2x (6) Hammer of the Naaru # 2x (7) Party Up! # 1x (9) Alexstrasza the Life-Binder # 2x (9) Libram of Hope # 1x (9) N'Zoth, God of the Deep # AAECAaToAgj8uAPD0QOb2AP53gP03wOY6gPI7wOwigQL6rkD7LkDlc0DytED/tEDhd4DjeEDlugD/uwDlO8DyaAEAA== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone Give it a shot once the patch hits. Although honestly it would probably be better without the Party Up/Alura package and just played with good, normal, spells. sirtommygunn fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 13:27
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