|
orangelex44 posted:And as far as matchups go... https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-202/ ...the latest VS report has Control Priest as second most played across all ranks (although 2-4 are effectively in a three-way tie), with a sub-.500 winrate in D1-D4 and even just a .510 winrate at top Legend (it's only a T2 deck!). It's matchup spread against specific decks is also relatively fair. Even if you were to make the claim that the deck was somehow defining top-level play, it clearly has available counters that are available to keep it from dominating. I understand the appeal of playing control, but let me come at this from a slightly different angle unrelated to winrates at all : if you've been reading the Something Awful Forums Hearthstone Thread for as long as I have you would probably be aware that there's been a very consistent anti-Priest sentiment here for a long time, and the main reason is usually stated as "the games take too long." Yes, there's a lot of hyperbole, and yes this thread is quick to call all sorts of stuff bullshit (usually for good reasons, though, I would say) but even compared to most other control decks in HS history Priest has pretty much always been the class that "takes too long," only now on top of that there's also the overabundance of random generators in the mix contributing to even longer turn length. Do you think there's any validity to those complaints? Do you think it's a problem for the game if playing against one particular class causes people to instantly concede? Do you think turn length is an important consideration for the design of this game, and do you think Priest is an outlier in that regard and that it should be corrected?
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 14:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 06:57 |
|
|
I'm pretty much instantly conceding against Hunter right now, does that count at all or does this thread still like to suck Rexxar off
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 14:25
|
|
|
Kalko posted:I understand the appeal of playing control, but let me come at this from a slightly different angle unrelated to winrates at all : if you've been reading the Something Awful Forums Hearthstone Thread for as long as I have you would probably be aware that there's been a very consistent anti-Priest sentiment here for a long time, and the main reason is usually stated as "the games take too long." Yes, there's a lot of hyperbole, and yes this thread is quick to call all sorts of stuff bullshit (usually for good reasons, though, I would say) but even compared to most other control decks in HS history Priest has pretty much always been the class that "takes too long," only now on top of that there's also the overabundance of random generators in the mix contributing to even longer turn length. *Somebody* hates every class, and similarly there have been decks from every class that have made me want to concede instantly. Bitching about turn length is going to happen regardless as well, because if Priest wasn’t the longest then it’d just be the second longest that people would bitch about. Priest is taking flak from the normal aggro vs. control debate; it just happens that in Hearthstone Priest has been forced into always being on one side
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 14:31
|
|
|
Except priest matches are exponentially longer than even other control matches.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 14:33
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:I'm pretty much instantly conceding against Hunter right now, does that count at all or does this thread still like to suck Rexxar off have you considered playing a deck that contests the board
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 14:55
|
|
Caught Cubs Posting
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:I'm pretty much instantly conceding against Hunter right now, does that count at all or does this thread still like to suck Rexxar off I play a LOT of FaceHunter and this is the dumbest thing, I'm pretty good to really good with it and sometimes it gets really bad draws or just runs out of steam. Diamond something but 51% win rate over all. Don't fear the Hunter. Edit: 820 games and Diamond 9 lol deck is fun and stuff but don't fear it at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 15:19
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:I'm pretty much instantly conceding against Hunter right now, does that count at all or does this thread still like to suck Rexxar off are you playing warlock/spell mage?
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
Scrub-Niggurath posted:are you playing warlock/spell mage? More like any class that wasn't Priest. Excluding that, it's worst matchup on HSReplay is like Rush Warrior but that's only like a 53-ish winrate for Warrior. But nobody cares about this because "matchups are quick tho" or some poo poo I dunno Devo posted:have you considered playing a deck that contests the board "just play the board" kind of went out the window when Hunter started getting cards like Rhino and Piercing Shot
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 15:29
|
|
|
i only insta concede to the windrunner sisters like a true scholar
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 15:30
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:I'm pretty much instantly conceding against Hunter right now, does that count at all or does this thread still like to suck Rexxar off The game is going to be over quickly anyway, why not give it a shot? Maybe the other player will wander off while in the middle of the game and you'll get a insta win 
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 15:36
|
|
|
Playing against Priest is boring. I don't think it's as bad as Galakrond Rogue though. Minion generation loving sucked.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:09
|
|
|
Playing against aggro is boring since it almost never comes down to your decisions and instead to the matchup and who draws better. Might as well just play coin-toss for the same experience but faster. On the other hand playing against control (or priest) at least I actually get to do stuff. And yes, RNG still decides some matches but not as often.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:52
|
|
Chernabog posted:Playing against aggro is boring since it almost never comes down to your decisions and instead to the matchup and who draws better. Might as well just play coin-toss for the same experience but faster. Certifiably false. Just because you don't see the decisions doesn't mean they don't exist. Chernabog posted:On the other hand playing against control (or priest) at least I actually get to do stuff. And yes, RNG still decides some matches but not as often. Yea, you do a bunch of decisions that have way less impact than the aggro decisions. So there is a lot more wiggle room for you to mess up, and to convince yourself that the decisions you are making actually have more impact than they do. One could argue that versus current Priest, that is just spinning wheels and wasting time and energy for an unsatisfying experience, win or lose.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
Chernabog posted:Playing against aggro is boring since it almost never comes down to your decisions and instead to the matchup and who draws better. Might as well just play coin-toss for the same experience but faster. LOL no I play a lot of aggro stuff and you would be amazed at how subtle some of the choices are. The RNG will gently caress you sometimes with almost every aggro deck, be it FaceHunter or Kingsbane, but aggro lives or dies on these tiny little decisions you just don't see.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:27
|
|
|
You're all "this is only turn 5 how did i lose?" and i'm all "that was a lot of math, if they drew [X] that was game over." EDIT: what I am basically saying it is not a play style that allows for even tiny mistakes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:41
|
|
|
Desert Bus posted:LOL no I play a lot of aggro stuff and you would be amazed at how subtle some of the choices are. The RNG will gently caress you sometimes with almost every aggro deck, be it FaceHunter or Kingsbane, but aggro lives or dies on these tiny little decisions you just don't see. Ehhhh. There's a reason I grab the aggro FOTM and slam it when I feel like hitting Legend in a particular month. Sure, I could 'optimize' and get a .5% WR bump with my 'subtle choices' but it's still easy, even in a post-bar haze. Priest + drinking is generally just a string of losses. That's my official metric for deck difficulty 
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
Aggro players will sometimes trade a 4-1 into like a 5/4 or something and act as if they had just made the most difficult decision of their life
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:44
|
|
|
Sloppy posted:Ehhhh. There's a reason I grab the aggro FOTM and slam it when I feel like hitting Legend in a particular month. Sure, I could 'optimize' and get a .5% WR bump with my 'subtle choices' but it's still easy, even in a post-bar haze. Priest + drinking is generally just a string of losses. That's my official metric for deck difficulty This is honestly what I am doing when I start drinking or get all hosed up on Valium, and have been for years, so your mileage intoxicated may not equal mine, this is my "yeah lol not moving from this chair game." A lot of the aggro scene is simple, but a lot of it also just folds on its own or vs a deck that can handle it. I've won three games and hit D8 in the time this whole convo has happened. EDIT: bitch about FaceHunter i'm gonna lose a lot with it now, hope to see you on the Ladder friends!
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:48
|
|
|
I have played aggro as well. I almost always feel like I'm at the mercy of RNG, whether it is in the matchup or that I draw what I need while they don't. Yes, there are certain options like go all-in or not overextend. Or trade or go face but these are not really that tough as you make them out to be. Often times you can do the "correct" choice and still lose because they top-decked the exact answer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:48
|
|
|
Chernabog posted:I have played aggro as well. I almost always feel like I'm at the mercy of RNG, whether it is in the matchup or that I draw what I need while they don't. Yes, there are certain options like go all-in or not overextend. Or trade or go face but these are not really that tough as you make them out to be. Often times you can do the "correct" choice and still lose because they top-decked the exact answer. This whole game has so much RNG though. You can try to build around it but...
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:51
|
|
|
dumbest post ever.
Mayveena fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jul 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:53
|
|
|
Sloppy posted:Ehhhh. There's a reason I grab the aggro FOTM and slam it when I feel like hitting Legend in a particular month. Sure, I could 'optimize' and get a .5% WR bump with my 'subtle choices' but it's still easy, even in a post-bar haze. Priest + drinking is generally just a string of losses. That's my official metric for deck difficulty
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:55
|
|
|
Flayer posted:Not that I'm particularly agreeing with you but if you have a string of decisions - even if they are easy - and you're drunk and picking fairly randomly there is an almost certain chance you'll lose. Often playing as aggro decks there will be one or two key decisions that define the game so it's a lot easier to randomly win that coin toss and achieve a winrate that is better than 0. In an aggro meta many of the key decisions happen before the game starts in deciding how you build your deck and understand the choices you'll need to make to win. The mulligan is critical as well. And apparently none of that matters because HSReplay says Face Hunter and Aggro Shaman are both dominating with an Iron Fist, even in Diamond+
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
Perhaps a weaker Priest will allow decks to adjust to beat Hunter/Shaman more reliably.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
Changing the subject, I wish there was a Nozdormu mode.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:03
|
|
sirtommygunn posted:Perhaps a weaker Priest will allow decks to adjust to beat Hunter/Shaman more reliably. Yes, and other decks to rise as predators to balance things out, namely OTK DH, Miracle Rogue, and the fatter variants of Druid. Also anyone using straight up observed/expected win% numbers without context has no idea what they are talking about and can and should be safely ignored.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
Chernabog posted:Changing the subject, I wish there was a Nozdormu mode. Too bad it would just be ruined by encouraging more Hunter/Shaman decks
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:05
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:Too bad it would just be ruined by encouraging more Hunter/Shaman decks I would then make an anti-aggro deck and win it all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:08
|
|
|
sirtommygunn posted:Perhaps a weaker Priest will allow decks to adjust to beat Hunter/Shaman more reliably. Flayer fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jul 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:Yes, and other decks to rise as predators to balance things out, namely OTK DH, Miracle Rogue, and the fatter variants of Druid. Yep! I play for this thing called "fun" because this is a "game." It's pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
Whoa, in a surprise move, a card reveal has been moved up to today (opposed to the reveals starting July 20th) https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/cards?set=united-in-stormwind https://twitter.com/CoinConcede/status/1415715224284401666
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:42
|
|
|
Good, the dump after weeks of dead time sucks compared to a drip.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
I hope they decide to move a few more up, though I doubt they will. Glad to see we get something tonight.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:Whoa, in a surprise move, a card reveal has been moved up to today (opposed to the reveals starting July 20th) This makes me feel like pre orders are down. Which I don't blame people, generally you want to know what you are pre ordering before you spend money.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
Chernabog posted:I would then make an anti-aggro deck and win it all. But only Priest was actually capable of running a deck like that in Standard, that's kind of the problem. The only other class that has a chance of doing that is Control Warrior, and even then it's pretty sketchy because you are mostly hoping they get bad mulligans
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 22:47
|
|
|
The legend grind was thankfully very easy this month, only lost 1 game with Hunter from D5 to legend. 2 people left mid game when they absolutely had me and a 3rd attacked into my explosive trap before armoring up when they had lethal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 23:37
|
|
|
Shwqa posted:This makes me feel like pre orders are down. Which I don't blame people, generally you want to know what you are pre ordering before you spend money. No need to pre order these days, got enough gold from the season pass to get plenty of packs. That plus one or two of the £15 'a few legendaries and some packs' post release offers is enough for near enough all the cards.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 23:37
|
|
|
Yeah just gonna use gold for packs and probably get the tavern pass or whatever cause I like the EXP boost.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 23:45
|
|
|
Another week, another piece of poo poo PvE "adventure." gently caress you, Blizzard.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 23:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 06:57 |
|
|
I see tavern brawl has devolved into turn 1 kill shaman mirrors.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 00:11
|
|
