|
fractalairduct posted:What was the point of having Miss Minutes offer Sylvie and Loki a place on the timeline where they could have everything they wanted, if Immortus knew they wouldn't take it? Why bother bringing that up at all? edit: oh yeah I see what you mean, but there's a lot of "why bother doing ____" except that he knows it will lead up to the point he wants to happen presumably
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 18:12 |
|
|
live with fruit posted:This is my understanding. The "sacred timeline" is the one that leads to HWR and anything that doesn't lead to an alternate Kang is fine. My interpretation is the the sacred timeline isn't just one timeline. There are millions of timelines in the sacred timeline but they all lead to the same conclusion with multitudes of variances along the way. But certain key events must play out in a certain way so that this particular variant of He Who Remains comes into being. Branches are when events pop up that threaten the timeline from reaching the same conclusion and thus need to be pruned. When a branch happens and you prune it, you're not resetting that entire timeline to be an exact duplicate. You're resetting the diverging event and basically forcing it back onto the path. So Sylvie being born a girl, or Gator Loki being an alligator are fine. As long as the events that need to happen do in fact happen. That's why they aren't pruned out the minute they exist. If Sylvie's life had led to the the same events as our Loki then she would have continued existing no matter that she was female. When you're dealing with infinite possibilities some small variances along the way will still lead to other non affected things happening the exact same way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:48
|
|
|
fractalairduct posted:What was the point of having Miss Minutes offer Sylvie and Loki a place on the timeline where they could have everything they wanted, if Immortus knew they wouldn't take it? Why bother bringing that up at all? it creates dramatic tension in the scene because it gives the lokis an obstacle that tempts them away from their resolve that might put them back on the loki-wagon. It's all a test to get them into a specific frame of mind because of the journey they've been through. What's the point in making them fight the huge smoke monster? What's the point in any of it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:48
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I can't enjoy Back to the Future until I know why objects from the future will change in the past because Marty never existed, but Marty himself never changes. Presumably a Marty was born to his new cool parents, grew up with his new cool brother & sister, lived a great cool life (in the same house but cleaner), and then one day in 1985 he was erased and replaced with some other Marty who had no memory of any of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:49
|
|
|
Also the script flat out says something to the effect of "the destination isn't as important as the journey"
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
He Who Remains literally says that they have to take to the journey to make the change. Resisting that temptation for all they would theoretically want is part of their growth.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
Hobo Clown posted:Sylvie said "I was pruned before you existed" to Loki, but how would that work? I took that to mean that he became "him" when he became a variant. So he's existed for a few weeks, a month? While she has existed for years upon years as a variant.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
Xander B Coolridge posted:Also the script flat out says something to the effect of "the destination isn't as important as the journey" That's just paraphrasing some monomyth stuff to be meta in very superficial way. Which is a bit ironic given the story they've decided to go with for the next phase is just this writ large.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:55
|
|
|
The Grumbles posted:Sylvie is a weird exception because we know that Kang knows that he need Loki and Sylvie together at the end of time. So he's clearly got his own reasons for pruning her as and when he does. Sure, I may be overthinking it, but I feel like plots about time travel and alternate realities invite speculation. With something like Back to the Future, the tone is comedic enough that viewers know to just go along for the ride and have fun adventures in the past or future. On the other hand, Loki focuses so much time talking about alternate realities that it invites the viewer to wonder and speculate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 16:59
|
|
|
You shouldn't overthink time travel plots unless a character says "there is no free will, everything you've been doing has been according to my plan", at which point you should be able to look back and see how everything that happened fit into that plan. If you can't do that then it's just lazy writing moving the story onto a conclusion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
Where did Doc Brown get enriched plutonium to power the time machine train in Southern California in 1854?
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but I’m pretty sure the Guardians’ ship, the Milano, appears in that opening sequence where the camera is zooming in and out of galaxies and universes. It looks like it’s flying away from Earth.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
The fact that Renslayer thinks free will is not deserved by anyone except for Kang, yet was also a public school teacher in 2018, was incredibly on the nose, yet also incredibly frustrating that she would be the perfect vessel to execute a centuries-long plan of removing free will and chaos.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Where did Doc Brown get enriched plutonium to power the time machine train in Southern California in 1854? He presumably already had it with him when he arrived in 1854. The hurdle wasn't powering the time machine, it was finding a vehicle capable of going the 88 mph required to activate it. And has been noted in the MCU, "Back to the Future was a bunch of bullshit."
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:15
|
|
|
Everyone posted:He presumably already had it with him when he arrived in 1854. The hurdle wasn't powering the time machine, it was finding a vehicle capable of going the 88 mph required to activate it. Then the MCU immediately broke it's own time travel rules making it an unreliable narrator at best Bill &Ted remains the only good time travel mechanic
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:19
|
|
|
Also while HWR has complete knowledge of the flow of the sacred timeline, it is possible that variants running amok on that sacred timeline change things So like, HWR was not planning for/aware of Loki and Sylvie showing up to stab him until Lamentis happened Or something
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:20
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:You shouldn't overthink time travel plots unless a character says "there is no free will, everything you've been doing has been according to my plan", at which point you should be able to look back and see how everything that happened fit into that plan. If you can't do that then it's just lazy writing moving the story onto a conclusion. Kang says he knows what's going to happen, and that he paved the way, he doesn't say it's all according to his plan. To me that doesn't speak to every event being purposefully directed by him, more that he eliminated all the possibilities that lead to outcomes he didn't want.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:20
|
|
|
Visiting different universes is slightly different than visiting the same universe at different times. I think that nuance gets them out of some bad holes
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
The Dave posted:I don't want to publicly admit this but I don't have D+ and I "watch" these MCU shows by second-hand through youtube reactors. I watch about 2-3 and I get a pretty good idea of what has happened and the story. What the gently caress, just use a streaming site or something jesus
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:23
|
|
|
stev posted:She might be genetically a completely different person who was simply where Hiddleston Loki was when Odin adopted him. I mean is gator Loki genetically identical to the other Loki? I don’t think they’re all identical genetically.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
X-O posted:He Who Remains literally says that they have to take to the journey to make the change. Resisting that temptation for all they would theoretically want is part of their growth. This was definitely the intention, but it didn't really work for me because they didn't resist the temptations that had been driving them. Loki wanted the ultimate position of power (whatever that may be) and Sylvie wanted to chop off the head of the TVA (whoever that may be) and Ms Minutes offered them something close-to-but-not-quite that. He Who Remains was still what both of them had been chasing, however unknowingly, and they both fell directly into their respective motivations of "we should probably sit on the throne for the good of everyone" / "we should kill the big bad no matter what."
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:I mean is gator Loki genetically identical to the other Loki? I don’t think they’re all identical genetically. Given what we know I expect Lokii just need to be adopted from power, not necessarily all Jotuns. Maybe one was Sobek's kid
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:30
|
|
|
Afaict “Loki” just a god or goddess of mischief that interests HWR for idiosyncratic reasons Sylvie was born as a non royal human on Asgard for example
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
Bring back Anthony Hopkins to tell the story of how and why Odin adopted an alligator son
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:56
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Words quote:Do you get what the concept of pruning is? It's eliminating the variation from how time is in He Who Remains' reality so there is only the one timeline, rather than a multiverse of events. Not quite. It’s eliminating the variances that would eventually lead to a Kang being created. If there were only one timeline, then Dr Strange wouldn’t have been able to do what he did in Infinity War. quote:The way that time is supposed to go doesn't involve the plot of Endgame. That doesn’t mesh with what was shown in this series. Endgame still happened, Loki still vanished with the Tesseract. He got heisted by the TVA and, like you said, those people got punted to the end of time to be Alioth food (or at least I think they did, I’d have to go back and watch it again to see if it actually showed them being pruned). What didn’t happen was them retroactively adjusting the timeline so that Loki *didn’t* get away with the Tesseract. quote:Episode 5 told you that the Void is where they drop the timelines that get pruned. Not just people, but land and buildings and everything. People, land, buildings, tanks, etc. do not equal an entire timeline. It’s just a conglomeration of all the pruned things. As shown, Alioth eats people pretty well, but leaves inorganic matter behind (the ship from the Philadelphia experiment, Old Loki’s crown, everything else lying around in the Void, etc.), probably because a building can’t create a new Kang. Look at the Sacred Timeline for this like a rope made of tens of millions of fibers, and at the end of the rope is He Who Remains. Throughout time, one of those fibers might come loose. The TVA is there to remove whatever caused it to slip and tuck the thread back into the rope’s fibers. That’s how Strange was still able to sort through 14 million whatever timelines and find the one that led to victory. I’d continue the analogy but I gotta get back to training. Uhhhh multiverse isn’t just different timelines it’s different dimensions (universes), which is what was colliding at the start of ep 6. Back later.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
Hobo Clown posted:Bring back Anthony Hopkins to tell the story of how and why Odin adopted an alligator son I expect a full episode of What If to be dedicated to this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
Everyone posted:He presumably already had it with him when he arrived in 1854. The hurdle wasn't powering the time machine, it was finding a vehicle capable of going the 88 mph required to activate it. Edit: I'm dumb, this question was about the train plainswalker75 fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jul 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:01
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Afaict “Loki” just a god or goddess of mischief that interests HWR for idiosyncratic reasons Well, Loki in Norse myth could change genders. I just figured it's possible Loki spent some time as a girl when they were little, and switched back when they got older. For them it wouldn't have been a big deal, and the Nexus even wasn't related to them being female. We know mcu Thor wanted to be a Valkyrie, I can see Loki loving with him by saying "You can't be a Valkyrie, but I can, neener neener neener" and changing into a girl.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:05
|
|
|
stev posted:I expect a full episode of What If to be dedicated to this. A spinoff series called "What Did" for non-hypotheticals
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
badjohny posted:All speculation but The TVA could be the city we see for a second in ant man 2 when he goes to the quantum realm. They say time works differently in the TVA, it also does in the quantum realm. They are able to travel though time using it in Endgame. Ant man didn't get snapped away...maybe it wasn't random chance. Maybe the gems couldn't effect Scott in the quantum realm. Ant man 3 could be about going to the quantum realm to deal with the TVA. I am interested to see how this plays out because I had watched a few of the MCU flicks in relatively short order and it felt like there was some odd kinda sorta connection with the quantum realm and how Loki got back to our world after Thor ends or/and the space gem and Loki's/Frigga's magic that was sort of there but dropped in pre-production.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:26
|
|
|
Retrowave Joe posted:Pruning the condescension and snark, we agree on a lot more than you might think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:27
|
|
|
Should have had Dr Strange tied up somewhere in the corner.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:36
|
|
|
Retrowave Joe posted:Pruning the condescension and snark, we agree on a lot more than you might think. This post is pretty spot on with what I was saying earlier as well. I completely agree.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:39
|
|
|
stev posted:I expect a full episode of What The?! to be dedicated to this. Fixed that for you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:40
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:Fixed that for you. Only if we get a 10 minute Fred Hembeck animated portion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 18:45
|
|
|
I choose to believe in Gator Loki’s universe they call his home LouisianAsgard.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:05
|
|
|
 Also: https://twitter.com/museummammy/status/1415457124453335046
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:21
|
|
|
Until Karen got to it
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:26
|
|
|
Hobo Clown posted:Bring back Anthony Hopkins to tell the story of how and why Odin adopted an alligator son Scene - Odin sits in a great throne room surrounded by darkness lit by a floodlight from above, it is not known to the viewer if this is natural light, camera does a slow zoom on Odin as a title screen appears, "The tale of alligator Loki", when the title fades it is just Odin's face in frame. Odin - "I thought it'd be funny" End Scene.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 18:12 |
|
|
idk why everyone thinks the original Renslayer is a teacher, she has an office and a pretty big one. She's a principal or a counselor
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2021 19:38
|
|
