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theCalamity posted:The United States has the biggest prison population in the world. Most prisoners are unable to vote because of racist laws enacted by the white ruling class to keep black people oppressed. Police can literally murder you and get away with it and they have stolen more property than actual criminal burglaries one year. Kids are still in cages. Oh yeah, we continue to torture people. Wow, someone should do something about that. Apropos of nothing, I love ice cream.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:10
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theCalamity posted:The United States has the biggest prison population in the world. Most prisoners are unable to vote because of racist laws enacted by the white ruling class to keep black people oppressed. Police can literally murder you and get away with it and they have stolen more property than actual criminal burglaries one year. Kids are still in cages. Oh yeah, we continue to torture people. literally true lol this is why this US-centric democracy versus authoritarianism viewpoint is nonsense. and also have none of you fuckers read Lenin, there are way better ways to engage with this. You'd think that a forum that dunks on anarchists so much would be a little more prepared to defend single-party suppression of counterrevolutionaries
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Jul 16, 2021 19:10
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I mean, yeah. The whole point is that the academic definition of an authoritarian form of government is not useful for ascribing moral value to actions. hm, interesting example 
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Jul 16, 2021 19:11
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nearly all of the "suppression" of the protests came from the actual people taking to the streets to defend the government.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I mean, yeah. The whole point is that the academic definition of an authoritarian form of government is not useful for ascribing moral value to actions. It serves a very important purpose: it allows idiots to condemn Cuba for the crimes that the united states commits on a daily basis. And you're helping them.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:12
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Really, really need to elect more Democratic senators in the upcoming midterm.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:14
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:nearly all of the "suppression" of the protests came from the actual people taking to the streets to defend the government. when people go out to support your government? That's an authoritarianism.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:15
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Cpt_Obvious posted:It serves a very important purpose: it allows idiots to condemn Cuba for the crimes that the united states commits on a daily basis. By telling them that shouting "any action by democracy = good and any action by an authoritarian = bad" doesn't actually say anything bad about Cuba? As Brake for Moose said, this is literally the argument Lenin makes in favor of the Vanguard class.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:16
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:By telling them that shouting "any action by democracy = good and any action by an authoritarian = bad" doesn't actually say anything bad about Cuba? by pretending 'authoritarian' has any objective meaning and isn't just a loaded political term weaponized on enemies, genius.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:17
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yea no you're right, when Joe Biden calls Cuba 'authoritarian' he means it in the Marxist dialectical way.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:18
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Bipartisanship!
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Jul 16, 2021 19:20
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sexpig by night posted:by pretending 'authoritarian' has any objective meaning and isn't just a loaded political term weaponized on enemies, genius. The whole point of saying "anything done by an authoritarian state is worse than anything done by a democratic state" is because they are using it as a loaded political term. Telling them that a country can have an abominable foreign policy and still be a democracy doesn't aid the people saying that it is bad because it is an action taken by an authoritarian state. You need to tell Lenin and Antonio Gramsci that they are apparently anti-communist stooges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguardism#:~:text=In%20the%20context%20of%20the,of%20the%20working%20class%20towards
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Jul 16, 2021 19:21
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i do want to say for the record that i support the cuban people and government repressing counterrevolutionaries and locking them up
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Jul 16, 2021 19:21
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How the gently caress do you engage in political arguments with "peaceful" liberal? The core being - violence is never the answer. The US is the good guy and violence it commits outside the US is justified if regrettable. To me it's an absurd disconnect but obviously people believe it.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:22
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sexpig by night posted:Really, really need to elect more Democratic senators in the upcoming midterm. lol
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Jul 16, 2021 19:23
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:By telling them that shouting "any action by democracy = good and any action by an authoritarian = bad" doesn't actually say anything bad about Cuba? Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The U.S. system of government is less authoritarian in the academic sense than Cuba, but it would be crazy to try and argue that the U.S. has caused less damage to Cuba than vice -versa or that Cuba has caused more foreign damage than the U.S. because it is "authoritarian" because authoritarianism has no impact on a country's foreign policy. You can be a maliciously evil democratic state or an isolationist authoritarian regime. The bolded segment undercuts your entire point because it accepts an entire framework that serves only to justify imperialism. It's a loving imperialist dog whistle, plain and simple. It's also completely insane. The true tyrannical authority will always be the employer who controls more of your waking life than you do
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Jul 16, 2021 19:23
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Cpt_Obvious posted:No, with poo poo like this: That is the literal definition that Gramsci uses for cultural hegemony... It is going to be very difficult to argue that Antonio Gramsci's writings were an anti-Marxist and imperialist screed.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:27
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Uncle Wemus posted:"Legal observers are wondering whether the left's pressure campaign on Breyer to step down has backfired" lol at "pressure campaign", that was all just libs seeing a few tweets correctly identifying what is going to happen to the SC and then deciding to write op-eds about how he should stand strong and not retire. and it is great that all discourse around this is framed such that personally convincing unelected people who care only about themselves to voluntarily give up power is the only valid avenue. maybe we can intercept his ice cream deliveries and replace them with the wrong flavors until he gets sad enough to quit.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:28
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:How the gently caress do you engage in political arguments with "peaceful" liberal? Beat them up until they agree with you, seems kind of obvious.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:28
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academics can eat my rear end
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Jul 16, 2021 19:29
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Just LOL at the idea that Cuba would be better under Batista v2.0 after America has killed a third of the population, destroyed its infrastructure, and dismantled every social program in the name of austerity. But hey the can vote for fascists now and buy American products so it’s basically a wash I guess.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:34
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World War Mammories posted:e: ^^^ lol isn't it your quote that's gracing the thread title now Leon has an alarming tendency to respond to being blind-quoted by showing up here and making a bunch of tedious lib posts, yes
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Jul 16, 2021 19:35
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Jul 16, 2021 19:36
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Leon has an alarming tendency to respond to being blind-quoted by showing up here and making a bunch of tedious lib posts, yes I've been posting here before today and arguing that Lenin and Antonio Gramsci are correct.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:36
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Jul 16, 2021 19:37
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Jul 16, 2021 19:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I've been posting here before today and arguing that Lenin and Antonio Gramsci are correct. you've been posting saying Lenin and Gramsci would agree that the US is less authoritarian because it has two parties that serve the same capitalist class, knowing the names of communist intellectuals does not mean you're correct.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:39
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I've been posting here before today and arguing that Lenin and Antonio Gramsci are correct. Today's not the first time you've been blind-quoted. Tu coque 
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Jul 16, 2021 19:40
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
I’m trying to figure out whether this moron is actually being earnest about their stupidity or whether they know they’re carrying water for a fascist demon cracker nation and simply don’t care
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Jul 16, 2021 19:42
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so a bunch of republicans decide the party has gone to far and start donating to a dem and a bunch of leftists get mad because they previously supported trump…like how do expect to win with purity tests like that???
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Jul 16, 2021 19:43
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Leon has an alarming tendency to respond to being blind-quoted by showing up here and making a bunch of tedious lib posts, yes Is this the same idiot that proposed the idea of lobbying being good because LGBTQ groups could theoretically lobby for legislation that would help them or was that some other DnD blue maga chud?
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Jul 16, 2021 19:43
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Yea, the best you can do is hope the candidates this time around are not Sinema/Manchin-lite. Then there's almost two years to try to find and elect better Democratic candidates the next time around.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:44
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Shen Long posted:Is this the same idiot that proposed the idea of lobbying being good because LGBTQ groups could theoretically lobby for legislation that would help them or was that some other DnD blue maga chud? Someone else.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:45
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Someone else. Ah okay, I wanted to know if you’re just an imperialist chud that was actively dumb as gently caress or just merely a bloodthirsty stooge for the MIC
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Jul 16, 2021 19:46
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Eventually when the mask keeps slipping you just take it off completely because no one gives a poo poo
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Jul 16, 2021 19:47
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Nichael posted:Wow, someone should do something about that. Apropos of nothing, I love ice cream. Biden’s only been in the government for 100 years, give it some time
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Jul 16, 2021 19:48
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sexpig by night posted:you've been posting saying Lenin and Gramsci would agree that the US is less authoritarian because it has two parties that serve the same capitalist class, knowing the names of communist intellectuals does not mean you're correct. No, Lenin and Gramsci would argue that authoritarianism in itself does not have a moral component. Gramsci's argument is literally that the bourgeoisie develops a hegemonic culture using ideology rather than violence, economic force, or coercion. Hegemonic culture propagates its own values and norms so that they become the "common sense" values of all and thus maintain the status quo. Cultural hegemony is therefore used to maintain consent to the capitalist order, rather than the use of force to maintain order. This cultural hegemony is produced and reproduced by the dominant class through the institutions that form the superstructure. Just yelling the academic definition of authoritarian means nothing and the idea that any action performed by an authoritarian state is inherently worse than one performed by a democratic state runs contrary to Lenin's argument for the Vanguard class and Gramsci's idea of cultural hegemony.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:49
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the C.H.U.D.s were the good guys in the movie
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Jul 16, 2021 19:49
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The ACADEMIC definition of chud
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Jul 16, 2021 19:50
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:How the gently caress do you engage in political arguments with "peaceful" liberal? philosophical discussions on the nature of violence is what they’d prefer to talk about rather than the specific horrific crimes the US performs domestically and abroad. just bring up all those repeatedly until they get mad at you. for the domestic side you can bring up all the civil rights riots that triggered social progress and ask how they would have preferred/expected history to go if those had not happened. they all think breaking a national bank’s window is horrible violence so you don’t have to bother bringing up actual violence like the civil war or whatever. can’t really convince these folks, just try to toss enough unsettling things into the back of their minds and maybe one day it’ll click together for them.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:51
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