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So is Hakuho still actually retiring after this performance?
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Jul 16, 2021 18:29
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yes unless no
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Jul 16, 2021 18:54
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I was ready to throw my phone if loving Shodai of all people denied us the zensho yusho battle. Hoshoryu/Ichinojo was a real war and they looked exhausted. What a wild day of sumo.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:04
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If he doesn't retire, his knee doctor deserves a Nobel Prize in Medicine for whatever the gently caress he pulled off in a handful of months to allow this performance.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:04
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Also lol at the YDC and JSA trying to prevent someone from screwing them out of their old man deliberations
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Jul 16, 2021 19:07
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Sub Rosa posted:So is Hakuho still actually retiring after this performance? I mean, if he zensho-yushos for #45 and feels good, maybe he takes a stab at getting to 50.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:26
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I love Hakuho.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:32
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Hakuho can’t straighten his arms and was ready to hang it up last year after doing his Olympics dohyo-iri, so I doubt he tries to push it until he can’t anymore. Retiring on a zensho-yusho is the exact type of statement that feels in character for him. Retired on his terms and everyone should know he could still beat their asses until his final days.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:49
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Man who literally cant lift his arms is 13-0.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:50
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Also I find it weird that they said what they did presumably to tell Hakuho to go all out because being a buddy and not going 100% to let someone achieve yokozuna easier seems like literally the least Hakuho thing on earth I can imagine. Have to believe that Chris is just guessing at reasons at this point.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:39
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Weeks before tournament: It is nice that Hakuho will appear but there is no way he lasts the full 15 days First Couple Days of tournament: Hakuho is shaky but maybe he can be respectable through this basho Rest of tournament: The No Armed, One Knee Man Can Literally Destroy Anyone He Pleases Shiroc fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 21:54
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After tournament: Hakuho Devours an Entire Nation
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Jul 16, 2021 22:55
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Can Hakuho announce his retirement and then still do his thing at the Olympics, or will he have to wait until after the Olympics to announce his retirement?
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Jul 16, 2021 22:58
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He can do the ceremony as long as he hasn’t cut the top knot off, IIRC
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Jul 16, 2021 23:28
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Martytoof posted:Also I find it weird that they said what they did presumably to tell Hakuho to go all out because being a buddy and not going 100% to let someone achieve yokozuna easier seems like literally the least Hakuho thing on earth I can imagine. Have to believe that Chris is just guessing at reasons at this point. Yeah, I was also puzzled by that. I don't think Hakuho's ever just 'let somebody win' in his entire career, especially not a match with as much on the line as this one. Going out with a zensho-yusho for his last basho? Can't see him passing that up for anything. Also, I sort of think Takayasu might get ozeki now if he wins his last two, especially if Shodai goes make-koshi. They have to have a minimum of two ozeki+yokozuna, after all. Asanoyama's out. Hakuho's probably retiring. Takakeisho is injured and my guess is he's gonna lose ozeki next basho, whether because he skips it for injury or because he enters it and goes kyujo early because he hasn't healed up properly. That puts them down to one ozeki and one yokozuna-ozeki, and Shodai could very well be kadoban for it. There's a good chance they'll be in the market for a new ozeki in the very near future, and they may prefer to promote one off of the tail end of a not-quite successful ozeki run rather than just going "welp, got to fill the banzuke, grab us a sekiwake."
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Jul 16, 2021 23:40
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I can sympathize but I think it’s a real stretch to consider Takyasu getting Ozeki with only 29 wins in his last 3 basho when the standard is 33. I don’t see them stretching the rules for him no matter how desperate they are for Ozeki. They’ve also made some comments about how he’ll be held to the same standard as everyone else, previously in the basho (I say that but can’t cite a source, I heard somewhere so maybe I’m full of poo poo) so I’d put money on no dice.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:45
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Takayasu seems like he'll either make it back to ozeki straight up in a basho or two or his injuries will keep him from it. Giving it to him 'easy' then him underperforming due to injury would be the worst possible outcome from a sumo optics perspective.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:51
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Gotta say this Basho has been great from the start but these last few days have been amazing. So much drama, my boys have done less than stellar but who cares with this much quality sumo on show. Also, as a cautionary tale for trading - I bailed on Terutsoyoshi at 2-5 and he's since went unbeaten to go 8-5, while my import Kiribayama has lost three bouts in the same period. 
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Jul 17, 2021 00:10
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Khizan posted:They have to have a minimum of two ozeki+yokozuna, after all. There's no obligation to have any Ozeki or Yokozuna! I don't there's ever been a recorded instance without a couple, but they won't panic and promote someone just to balance numbers. Again. I mean, we haven't had a Kimura Shonosuke (top ranked gyoji) for quite a while now so they're probably in no hurry to over promote anyone.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:15
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I thought seeing two yokozuna face off on the last day for the title would be something I wouldn't see again for an age. But the way this is shaping up is even more dramatic. I posted in the thread earlier that after watching all of hakuho and teru's fights, I'd give teru a 50% chance of victory if he comes out on top of the tachiai. I still believe that to be true. Hakuho is looking monstrous in this basho and has so many ways to win it's almost unfair, if teru defeats him this basho will become legendary and the perfect capstone to an incredible saga. Great basho.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:20
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Hokuseiho won the makushita yusho and has enough hair for a top knot now. That boy is BIG and hopefully will have the technique and fight IQ to go far.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:28
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Marching Powder posted:I'd give teru a 50% chance of victory But Hakuho's a genetic freak and not normal, so
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Jul 17, 2021 00:28
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If Mitakeumi can win out the next two day and then go 14-1 in Aki he could get it. Takayasu would probably need similar to be in serious consideration. Other than those two, no one has even sniffed starting an ozeki run, which means the earliest we could see a new ozeki would be after Hatsu 2022, and the only real candidates are Meisei (assuming he holds gets another win to stay in san'yaku), or whoever gets into an open san'yaku slot if one appears. Hokutofuji, Ichinojo, and Hoshoryu are the only real contenders for a potential san'yaku promotion. That means that to get a new ozeki in the next 6 months we're looking at Takayasu, Mitakeumi, Meisei, Hokutofuji, Ichinojo, and Hoshoryu. Of that list, I think Hokutofuji and Ichinojo are out. Neither of them post double-digits more often than once a year, and they both similarly post double-digit losing records at about the same frequency. That leaves Takayasu, Mitakeumi, Meisei, and Hoshoryu. Meisei hasn't posted a losing record since returning to makuuchi last September, and he went 10-5 in March. Hoshoryu is likely to post his first ever double-digit record this basho, and has never had a record lower than 7-8 as a sekitori. Based on all of this, I think the most likely next ozeki is Meisei, followed by Hoshoryu, then Mitaekumi, then Takayasu. I just don't see Taka going 14-1 next basho, and the longer it takes for him to complete his run the more likely he re-aggravates his back. Mitakeumi has gone 14-1 before, but hasn't looked very dominant this basho, and I don't trust him. Meisei is on a nice, steady trajectory. I think Hoshoryu needs a bit more seasoning, unless he's a true wunderkind (which I wouldn't mind, obviously).
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Jul 17, 2021 00:29
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Elissimpark posted:But Hakuho's a genetic freak and not normal, so There's a massive caveat to that number in the words that follow. He has to win the tachiai against the genetic freak to have an even odds chance of victory imo.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:34
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Marching Powder posted:There's a massive caveat to that number in the words that follow. He has to win the tachiai against the genetic freak to have an even odds chance of victory imo. Sorry, that wasn't serious commentary, just thinking of Scott Steiner math.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:38
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MyChemicalImbalance posted:Gotta say this Basho has been great from the start but these last few days have been amazing. So much drama, my boys have done less than stellar but who cares with this much quality sumo on show. I always take my saltyboi and this isn't too unusual. He's saved my rear end a few times
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Jul 17, 2021 00:41
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Kenning posted:{speculative confidence in Mitakeumi} I'd be shocked if he actually pulled it out. He's so wildly inconsistent that if he miraculously put it together, he'd absolutely be a Goeido-type. Mediocre ozeki riding 8-7/9-6s and kadoban hard.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:44
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Less ozeki only means more chances at a kinboshi 
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Jul 17, 2021 01:08
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I won't pretend like I know hakuho but the ending of that Chris sumo video really got under my skin. I just cannot fathom the man going easy on someone looking to become a yokozuna under any circumstances. His massive body is literally crumbling under the weight of the title and to insinuate that he'd just let someone share the status without personally showing him they're worthy seems insulting.
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Jul 17, 2021 01:46
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didn't see the video but the tweet from herouth said the rumor came from a "gossip mag". that's exactly the poo poo that's gonna be said about a sport that's had match fixing controversies whether or not it's valid at all, and i'm sure the fact they're both mongolian adds to that for some.
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Jul 17, 2021 01:51
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Hahaha oh yeah I forgot about the racism
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Jul 17, 2021 01:57
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Shiroc posted:I'd be shocked if he actually pulled it out. He's so wildly inconsistent that if he miraculously put it together, he'd absolutely be a Goeido-type. Mediocre ozeki riding 8-7/9-6s and kadoban hard. All I'm saying in that post is that Mitakeumi is in 3rd place of the 4 hypothetical ozeki candidates. I have no confidence in him myself, I be think Meisei is much more likely.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:01
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Re: sumo racism, where does Takayasu, being half-Japanese half-Filipino, fall on the totem pole? Do they have less against him than the Mongolians, or more?
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Jul 17, 2021 02:06
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My understanding of Japanese racism is you are full blooded Japanese, or a savage. You can transcend savagery and become Japanese only by bringing great status to Japan in arenas typically not associated with Japanese supremacy. NBA player Rui Hachimura pretty much said that despite being born there he has never been Japanese until the second he was drafted.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:10
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The problem with discussing racism in sumo is that while there is certainly racism in the sport (there's racism in all sport, because sport is just a facet of its society, and racial hierarchies are currently important worldwide), because of sumo's weird relationship with the Japanese national character (see the second post in this thread!), a discussion of racism in sumo almost immediately becomes a conversation about how racist the Japanese are, a discussion which is, you guessed it, itself racist. I personally think that the way the JSA and the YDC treats Hakuho is a lot less about race and a lot more about the fact that he is a pure, extremely competitive athlete, but the conservatives in the sport/the YDC are uncertain if they want sumo to be a purely athletic, competitive endeavor. It's natural that foreigners are going to engage with sumo more as a sport than as an expression of national character (they're not Japanese), and I think that is more central to the occasional weirdness the JSA has with foreign rikishi, rather than it being just some atavistic racial superiority complex.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:22
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Kenning posted:The problem with discussing racism in sumo is that while there is certainly racism in the sport (there's racism in all sport, because sport is just a facet of its society, and racial hierarchies are currently important worldwide), because of sumo's weird relationship with the Japanese national character (see the second post in this thread!), a discussion of racism in sumo almost immediately becomes a conversation about how racist the Japanese are, a discussion which is, you guessed it, itself racist. Yea, it makes me extremely uncomfortable to see white Americans/Europeans discussing the racism of another country of non-white people and I don't think it belongs here.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:25
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Kenning posted:The problem with discussing racism in sumo is that while there is certainly racism in the sport (there's racism in all sport, because sport is just a facet of its society, and racial hierarchies are currently important worldwide), because of sumo's weird relationship with the Japanese national character (see the second post in this thread!), a discussion of racism in sumo almost immediately becomes a conversation about how racist the Japanese are, a discussion which is, you guessed it, itself racist. A very good post
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Jul 17, 2021 02:26
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Kind of ties into the nebulous hinkaku thing a Yokozuna is supposed to have. I wish they'd dispense with some of the expectations on the higher ranks and let wrestlers actually take time off to heal. I think that kind of thing killed Kisenosato's yokozuna career. If he got his pectoral repaired he might have had a better run.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:46
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terunofuji and hakuho are both very popular among the sumo going public and i certainly don't mean to insinuate that a comment in a sleazy magazine should be indicative of how the average japanese person or sumo fans feel on the whole l. in any sport or cultural endeavor in any country you can find horrible racist fans and lots of dumb comments regardless of issues relating to race about how it's all gone to hell in the modern era and how it and the people who do it were way better during whatever period happened to coincide with the commentator's youth. reminded of a lot of similar scandals revolving around baseball in the us because of a roughly analogous role in the national mythos as kenning pointed out.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:48
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I definitely think that anyone who conflates the decrees of think tanks created to figure out how to make foreigners less violent with the opinions of all Japanese people should be called out as weirdos and people who shouldn't be posting here while holding those opinions. However I also think that the creation of a think tank to figure out how to make foreigners less violent and then seriously considering its findings is unambiguously racist. Racism exists in the culture of this sport. And all sports. If we want to discuss hakuho not getting honorary elder stock like other yokozuna with a fraction of his achievements got by just saying 'wow that's weird' I don't mind but obviously I'd prefer to discuss difficult topics like adults with adults.
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Jul 17, 2021 03:03
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