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If I'm making $107k with 14 years experience, maybe 6+ a newer stack, DC area. I get job hits for $130k but I feel like that is maybe low I should set my goal higher like $150k. What do you think? A $23k pay raise is like an extra $1k per pay period, that's still something though.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:27
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| # ? May 27, 2024 12:18 |
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More E/N: Not getting divorced or separated. Accepting job offer on Monday. Found out the stock is a one-time grant of ~68k but 195k a year is still a huge salary bump so it's 100% worth it regardless. Tried to schedule time to talk to my boss today to break the news and found out he's out of the office for his father's funeral. I feel awful but nothing I can do about it. Going to ruin his day on Monday.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:36
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Guinness posted:Java and C# aren't going anywhere any time soon. Not all of it is horrible legacy nightmares. I work with Java mostly, but yeah it's a webdev job. Part of what prompted this was one of my coworkers today just randomly "refactoring" an API I had written, which he wasn't even assigned to work on, he was just supposed to be writing the web app consuming it, to make everything "reactive", throw in a bunch of lambdas, etc. without even talking to me about it, and acted like my code was all antiquated basically. So yeah I'm feeling extra salty today, but also trying to gauge how much of this is him, how much of it is webdev in general, how much of it is just dev in general, etc.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:39
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nvm
biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 21:41
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Comb Your Beard posted:If I'm making $107k with 14 years experience, maybe 6+ a newer stack, DC area. I get job hits for $130k but I feel like that is maybe low I should set my goal higher like $150k. What do you think? A $23k pay raise is like an extra $1k per pay period, that's still something though. Isn't DC cost of living very high? I'm not one to talk after living in NYC metro area at 155k with 17 years of experience, but if my recent experience is any indication, you should be able to come within arm's length of 200k, especially if you target fully remote companies.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:42
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From my recent research experience into company stacks java, ruby, python were quite popular with companies faang-lite and up. My stack is .NET which actually seemed to be not as popular. Java seemed to be in use everywhere. edit: I used stackshare (https://stackshare.io/) and reviewed companies engineering postings to try to figure out their stacks.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:43
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Comb Your Beard posted:If I'm making $107k with 14 years experience, maybe 6+ a newer stack, DC area. I get job hits for $130k but I feel like that is maybe low I should set my goal higher like $150k. What do you think? A $23k pay raise is like an extra $1k per pay period, that's still something though. With that much experience and in a high COL city I’d aim for like 160-180k salary these days. And a lot of stock on top of that if applicable.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:44
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rujasu posted:I work with Java mostly, but yeah it's a webdev job. Part of what prompted this was one of my coworkers today just randomly "refactoring" an API I had written, which he wasn't even assigned to work on, he was just supposed to be writing the web app consuming it, to make everything "reactive", throw in a bunch of lambdas, etc. without even talking to me about it, and acted like my code was all antiquated basically. So yeah I'm feeling extra salty today, but also trying to gauge how much of this is him, how much of it is webdev in general, how much of it is just dev in general, etc. Sounds to me more like a somewhat problematic, or at the least over-eager, coworker than an industry-wide fault. All the FAANGs and many other large tech companies are deeply entrenched with Java/JVM, along with all the old world enterprise companies as well. Newer version of Java and other JVM langs like Kotlin suck a lot less than they used to. Much of it is even "web dev" but focused on the backend systems where there is at least a little bit less flavor of the week framework churn. Functional stuff does make appearances from time to time where appropriate and some of the old enterprisey OO patterns are frowned upon, but its all still fundamentally classic OO Java at the core. I guess it kind of depends on what your definition of legacy code is, since for some people code written last month is legacy, but for others it is code written last decade. Every real non-startup job is going to involve working with tons of preexisting code though.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:53
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:More E/N: glad things are working out. re your boss, bruh his dad died he's not gonna give a poo poo Comb Your Beard posted:I should set my goal higher like $150k higher
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Jul 16, 2021 22:03
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14 years in dc i've seen 270k total comp, if you have top secret highest i've heard of for comparables in dc is 200 w/o, all cash. but 200 isn't chump change
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Jul 16, 2021 22:09
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Hadlock posted:Talked with an old co-worker who is now at apple, and he swears up and down they're deep in bed with Java, is that actually true? Java is their default language for server-side stuff and they have a lot of that these days.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:26
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When trying to figure out how long java will be around, is there anything other than cobol to give us an example of a widely used language that hasn't died out yet? Because cobol would tell us to expect that Java will be around for a long time after it starts its decline.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:52
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fortran lisp algol ada pascal pl/i basic mumps forth logo prolog bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jul 17, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 23:59
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rujasu posted:I work with Java mostly, but yeah it's a webdev job. Part of what prompted this was one of my coworkers today just randomly "refactoring" an API I had written, which he wasn't even assigned to work on, he was just supposed to be writing the web app consuming it, to make everything "reactive", throw in a bunch of lambdas, etc. without even talking to me about it, and acted like my code was all antiquated basically. So yeah I'm feeling extra salty today, but also trying to gauge how much of this is him, how much of it is webdev in general, how much of it is just dev in general, etc. I've never seen a reactive backend. If your front end dev is rewriting the backend API endpoints, then something has gone terribly wrong.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:22
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Perl and C still have wide user bases. And if you join one you get to read annual blog posts titled something like, “Perl’s Not Dead.”
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Jul 17, 2021 02:39
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So is Amazon's AWS organization universally a charnel house or is it another one of those "depends on the group" kind of things?
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Jul 17, 2021 03:14
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People who grew up learning Java in school are just now moving into upper management, and will start to retire in about 25 years, so it's probably not going to fade out until 2050 at the earliest. That said, unless I was at a die-hard java shop, I'd think twice before starting a greenfield project in Java in 2021 I think the useful lifespan of languages not already established, will shrink as monoliths written after 2005-2010 tend to favor json/restful patterns I'm not in favor of microservices, but crusty monoliths written in COBOL et al, there's no easy way to test the python/rust/c++ rewrite against the old one, and nobody wants to risk their career refactoring the golden goose. At least if your application logic is segmented into 30,000 line chunks, connected by an API
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Jul 17, 2021 03:16
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There’s a lot of work to be done in updating crusty old Cobol “monoliths” to the new world. My last company was in the position where they had done basically nothing for 20 years, and slowly let people and knowledge leave or retire. The old systems would have kept working, except their inputs were government files that kept changing. They owned a literal mainframe and there were maybe a handful of people left who knew how it worked.
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Jul 17, 2021 05:13
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:So is Amazon's AWS organization universally a charnel house or is it another one of those "depends on the group" kind of things? Depends on the org/team. I work there and it’s very laid back where I am.
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Jul 17, 2021 07:49
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rujasu posted:I work with Java mostly, but yeah it's a webdev job. Part of what prompted this was one of my coworkers today just randomly "refactoring" an API I had written, which he wasn't even assigned to work on, he was just supposed to be writing the web app consuming it, to make everything "reactive", throw in a bunch of lambdas, etc. without even talking to me about it, and acted like my code was all antiquated basically. So yeah I'm feeling extra salty today, but also trying to gauge how much of this is him, how much of it is webdev in general, how much of it is just dev in general, etc. I am not entirely sure what you mean by "reactive" in a Java backend context, but lambdas have been a part of Java for a very long time now and being salty about them is a bit weird.
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Jul 17, 2021 10:14
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bob dobbs is dead posted:fortran lisp algol ada pascal Okay, I guess most of the time a language just dies and there isn't much demand for it years later. Wonder if Java is presently more like those or more like cobol...
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Jul 17, 2021 14:44
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lifg posted:There’s a lot of work to be done in updating crusty old Cobol “monoliths” to the new world. Replace 'government files' with financial data, and you could be me. There are literally trillions of lines of code in Java/C# that are running critical software in the enterprise, you just have to look beyond what's trending on HackerNews. None of this is going to be replaced with [trendy language du jour] anytime soon. Knowing one of these stacks up-and-down, and being able to do maintenance work/refactoring without wanting to kill yourself should guarantee some level of employment into your crusty graybeard days.
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Jul 17, 2021 15:01
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Guinness posted:With that much experience and in a high COL city I’d aim for like 160-180k salary these days. And a lot of stock on top of that if applicable. Where can I find these positions without just applying to FAANG? I scrubbed out on the Facebook algorithm draw. Could try again. I know they're out there. I don't want to do clearance work. But maybe could. Which gov't contractor company pays the most? I still see indeed or linkedin hits for $100k and the word junior not even on it. It's like are you kidding me? I just got back in the job hunting game after taking a break and my first recruiter chat he says $130k. Comb Your Beard fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jul 17, 2021 |
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Jul 17, 2021 15:36
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:So is Amazon's AWS organization universally a charnel house or is it another one of those "depends on the group" kind of things? I just started a month ago, but it definitely depends on the team. AWS employs thousands (tens of thousands?) of people and each team is self-contained and responsible for their own service and culture.
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Jul 17, 2021 15:44
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Nvm
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Jul 17, 2021 16:43
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dantheman650 posted:I just started a month ago, but it definitely depends on the team. AWS employs thousands (tens of thousands?) of people and each team is self-contained and responsible for their own service and culture. There's always going to be some variance between teams in a large organization, but the big organization's policies and culture will influence every team. Every administrative unit at Amazon has to hit attrition targets, everybody has to work with the HR department that sets policies like "you can't tell people when they're on the first, potentially-recoverable stage of a PIP," and everybody rolls up under the same senior execs who see labor as interchangeable and disposable. Even if you've got an easygoing team now, if the people who are actively fighting the system to make it that way might burn out and leave, and their replacements probably won't be as cool. For instance, this woman's team was probably a good place to work, with reports saying "oh yeah, Amazon is great, you just have to find your niche and build relationships with the chill people." Emphasis on "was." quote:Other Amazon employees have said the company’s performance review process remains challenging and antithetical to workers’ career development. One former manager, who asked not to be named in order to maintain relationships with people still at the company, said she recently left Amazon in part because annually advocating to save her subordinates’ jobs was “exhausting,” she said. You should probably also consider that, at a month in, you're not seeing the full picture of how conflicts and HR decision-making play out. If somebody refuses to cancel their vacation when they have to make a decision like "sister's wedding or big product deadline," and gets pipped out for it, you won't have had a chance to see that process play out. Now, I'm not saying "never work at Amazon." There are some definite upsides: good compensation, a less-evil product compared to lots of jobs that pay similar money, you get to work with cool technology, and there are in fact some chill teams even if they're likely to be ephemeral. But don't fool yourself into thinking that today's chill team is necessarily going to be a long-term place. Get paid, do cool stuff, and throw that FAANG name on your resume, but make sure you know where the closest exit is.
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Jul 17, 2021 18:09
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Completely anecdotal, but I'm in Amazon's hometown and am friends/colleagues with at least two dozen former Amazon/AWS developers & managers. Emphasis on former. Very few of them lasted more than 2 years, some barely 1 year. And that's with their super punishing backloaded RSU vest schedule. They walked away from huge piles of stock vesting if they only lasted another year or two. It just wasn't worth it. Nearly every one of them would caution against going to work there if you have other options. The handful of folks I know that are either still at Amazon or spent a significant amount of time there are brokebrained workaholics. I believe there may be pockets of sanity and chillness on certain teams, but like has been said the corporate culture is the extreme opposite of that and any chill team will likely be fleeting. You're one reorg or manager departure away from hell, moreso than any other large corp.
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Jul 17, 2021 18:26
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I worked at Amazon in the mid-2000's, and it had a reputation for churning through devs back then too. I lasted two and a half years myself.
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Jul 17, 2021 19:05
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oliveoil posted:Okay, I guess most of the time a language just dies and there isn't much demand for it years later. i know of new hires in the last 12 months in 6 of those langs includin myself if clojure is a lisp lol
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Jul 17, 2021 22:03
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Does anyone other than the DoD use Ada?
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Jul 17, 2021 22:11
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ultrafilter posted:Does anyone other than the DoD use Ada? dod contractors, lol
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Jul 17, 2021 22:12
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What once widely used languages actually have died out? Pascal and Basic are the only ones which really comes to mind for me. Most languages which have substantially shrunk in relevance continue to be used in the niche where they were originally used, and that niche just became a much smaller portion of software being written. Perl’s a big exception there as it actually has been replaced by other languages, but people get very mad if you say Perl is dead.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:31
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Fortran, maybe. I hear of old academics still using it, and forcing their students to too, but I think it’ll disappear once those oldies are gone. (e: I just realized I sound like an NPC innkeeper, spreading rumors and town gossip.) lifg fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jul 17, 2021 |
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Jul 17, 2021 22:45
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Plorkyeran posted:What once widely used languages actually have died out? Pascal and Basic are the only ones which really comes to mind for me. Most languages which have substantially shrunk in relevance continue to be used in the niche where they were originally used, and that niche just became a much smaller portion of software being written. Perl’s a big exception there as it actually has been replaced by other languages, but people get very mad if you say Perl is dead. I think Pascal still pops up in academia occasionally but I could be thinking of FORTRAN. Microsoft has managed to keep BASIC-style syntax in production perpetually with VB, and especially VBA and VB .NET. At least (as far as I recall) VB .NET can mostly be transliterated to C# automatically. We're stuck with VBA forever.
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Jul 17, 2021 23:06
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I know that Bloomberg has some critical infrastructure code written in Fortran, and I wouldn't be surprised if other older financial institutions do too. They may not be starting new projects in it, but they'll be maintaining what they've got for a while.
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Jul 18, 2021 00:36
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:I think Pascal still pops up in academia occasionally but I could be thinking of FORTRAN. Actual basic programmers don’t really consider VB.NET to be a basic since it is just C# with basic-like syntax. There was the whole “visual Fred” thing when it first came out. VBA is a good point though.
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Jul 18, 2021 00:59
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bob dobbs is dead posted:i know of new hires in the last 12 months in 6 of those langs Okay nvm in that case it's hard to imagine java jobs completely going extinct before anyone working today retires
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Jul 18, 2021 02:10
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Plorkyeran posted:What once widely used languages actually have died out? Pascal and Basic are the only ones which really comes to mind for me. Most languages which have substantially shrunk in relevance continue to be used in the niche where they were originally used, and that niche just became a much smaller portion of software being written. Perl’s a big exception there as it actually has been replaced by other languages, but people get very mad if you say Perl is dead. My previous workplace still relied on Perl stuff. There's a project to replace it but I would say they're looking at atleast 3 years of work getting most of the functionality duplicated, and even then they will probably maintain and run it in paralell for longer than that.
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Jul 18, 2021 02:35
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ultrafilter posted:I know that Bloomberg has some critical infrastructure code written in Fortran, and I wouldn't be surprised if other older financial institutions do too. They may not be starting new projects in it, but they'll be maintaining what they've got for a while. Isn't a bunch of scipy written in Fortran?
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Jul 18, 2021 04:03
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numpy poo poo is a python layer over blas lapack and poo poo so yes
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Jul 18, 2021 04:08
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