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Hell, I want the third Battlefleet Gothic novel!
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Jul 16, 2021 17:51
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Just play Armada 1 and 2 and pretend that it was about Admiral Spire all along. Since I'm going through The Victory arc again, I thought I'd go back and double check the whole gender discrepancy about Dalin and Yoncy, since Elodie brings it up in one of her sections during Salvation's Reach. I went back to my copy of The Founding Omnibus and Dalin says "She's Yoncy" when correcting Criid about the baby's name. So from that Dalin and Yoncy have always been brother and sister in the books I own, so I'm wondering where the error happened. Did the Omnibus editions make some quick edits to make the genders consistent across the series? I don't have the original printing of Necropolis so is there a chance they made corrections? I'm trying to figure out when or if Dalin and Yoncy were actually replaced by woe machines sometime during the series or if they were always sleeper agents and Kolea's kids were both dead from the start. Maybe the intermission books Abnett is writing that take place between other novels will dive into it but right now I'm a bit confused as to where he found the "error" since it doesn't appear to be in my editions. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 18:17
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jng2058 posted:Hell, I want the third Battlefleet Gothic novel! There we go.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:24
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Arcsquad12 posted:Just play Armada 1 and 2 and pretend that it was about Admiral Spire all along. It’s in literally the very first appearance of the kids, when they’re still with their mom. The event you allude to happened in the moments after their mom’s death, before Criid found them
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Jul 16, 2021 19:51
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:It’s in literally the very first appearance of the kids, when they’re still with their mom. The event you allude to happened in the moments after their mom’s death, before Criid found them Huh, so it is. Little Yoncy in his woolen cap. Abnett even refers to him as male twice in the same section. I was a few pages off when I looked up the Criid scene where she finds them after the shelling. So the real Dalin and Yoncy were either killed in the shelling or Dalin was turned into a woe machine because he at least starts to question whether Yoncy was a brother or sister right before he was activated by Sek on Urdesh. Girl Yoncy is therefore a woe machine from the start while I think there's the possibility Dalin survived but was turned into one at the same time through contact with his "sister", since he still features enough human traits and memories to make me think he was still originally human. Which makes me wonder when did Sek become aware of Asphodel's woe machines being present in the Ghosts? My guess is that Rime and his Sirkles might have passed Sek information during his period infiltrating Balhaut to kill Mabbon. Sek definitely warded off the warp raiders at the start of Warmaster so his targets could get to Urdesh. He probably took his chance to activate Yoncy and Dalin during Ghosts and Bad Shadows when he was finally able to make a psychic link to members of the regiment. Before then, Sek wouldn't have had a chance to flip the switch on the woe machines. Once it became clear how close he could get to assassinating high command everything fell into place and he could have deliberately held the crusade at Urdesh until his assassins could arrive and be put in position. It does make me wonder how many other of the buzzsaw infiltrators had actually been set loose on Verghast with the intent for longterm assassination missions. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 20:20
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You have to take seers into account too. Everyone in 40k employs prophecies in one way or another and it was probably just another line of possibility that Sek nurtured throughout the crusade. After all Milo has a shining destiny that we still don't know what is, but it was enough to make Chaos send a suicide fleet deep into imperial territory to burn Tanith in order to stop it.
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Jul 16, 2021 20:34
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Even Guilliman ends up using seers when he comes back. Him adapting to the realities of the 41st millennium is a pretty interesting plotline to me.
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Jul 16, 2021 20:39
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It still feels like something that Sek only recently stumbled upon. Verghast took place during the 14th year of the crusade. Waiting until the 35th year of the crusade to spring a trap that long in the making seems a bit much. So I think Sek only discovered the opportunity recently during the Balhaut incursion and then got trapped ten years at Urdesh waiting for his chance to spring the surprise. As you said, they quickly rammed through through suicide fleet to burn Tanith when they got a chance. I dont think even the Archenemy could afford to commit to a decade long holding action at Urdesh, almost a full third of the length of the crusade, unless they were desperate and waiting for such an ace in the hole to play out. Balhaut was the first major blow that decided the crusade. By the time of the defeat at Herodor, the Sanguinary Worlds were basically falling into a purely defensive posture. Losing Pater Sin and Innotenki at Herodor was a disaster doubled by the reincarnation of Saint Sabbat, which is probably what led Sek to start making his own army to challenge Gaur since they were definitely starting to lose hard against the main thrust of the crusade. Sek moving into the forefront as antagonist really only starts after Traitor General, long after Necropolis and Verghast happened. He's moving quickly to consolidate and use whatever he has available to blunt the crusade, right down to flipping on forgotten sleeper weapons nobody knew were there before recently. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 20:46
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Most of the players in the crusade are engaged in competitive plate-spinning while they angle for a big shot that will give them the win. Sek wanted whatever the eagle stones would activate, the imperials want to take out the keystone leaders of the sanguinary worlds while protecting the Saint. They're all working with limited resources and maintaining the frontline while they take what they can. Imagine if Gaunt had gotten off of Tanith with 3 full regiments that could be reinforced with new recruits, and Milo had been his adjutant in that situation.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:00
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I see Tanith burning as a self fulfilling prophecy. If Tanith hadn't burned, Milo would have been a civilian and never left the planet unless he signed up later, but he was in the employ of the court or someone important and it's unlikely he'd have that opportunity. Edit: Yeah Milo was employed by the planetary governor, which is a hereditary and feudal position. So he'd have never have the option or choice to sign up with the guard as he was a serf. Demiurge4 fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 21:20
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tbh I hated the Secret Woe Engine stuff, I thought it came out of nowhere (even with the stuff in the short story)
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Jul 16, 2021 21:48
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Did I miss something about Milo? Is this in the new books?
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Jul 16, 2021 22:20
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Milo has had a destiny attached to him ever since he was under observation by the inquisitor back during Ghostmaker. He's implied to be a low level psyker with precognition. He left the regiment during Sabbat Martyr to travel with Sabbatine and fulfill his destiny fighting alongside the living Saint.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:15
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Ah right, I remember him leaving to be with the Saint but had completely forgotten about the bit with the inquisitor. Thanks!
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Jul 16, 2021 23:35
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The whole bit with the Inquisitor during the Monthax campaign was weird. She left with the Eldar for some reason when the Eldar only wanted to gaslight the Guardsmen into defending their web webway gate hidden in the keep ruins.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:45
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It's possible that Milo's destiny was helping the Saint with whatever she did right before Anarch, and he fulfilled it. Or maybe there's even more. As for the kids stuff, I don't love the woe machine plot but I buy it. My theory is this: Basically, the real Dalin and Yoncy were killed alongside their mother (which makes sense-- how was she totally obliterated but the kid she was leading by the hand and the baby stroller she was pushing were unharmed?). Asphodel had dropped two (or possibly more, we don't know) super-advanced woe machine infiltrators into Vervunhive with his early shelling. Imagine at this point they're hyper-dense processors packed into artillery shells, with most of their mass in the warp. Their "programming" triggers when the shells kill someone-- they absorb the person's soul as it passes into the warp and use it to create a perfect simulacrum, right down to personality and memories. The plan would be to activate them as needed during the war, but something goes wrong, or Asphodel just never gets around to it before Gaunt kills him. So now there's two infiltrator units living among the Ghosts, waiting for an activation signal that's never going to come. Sek finds out about them somehow (warp augury or whatever, maybe just Asphodel's notes, it's not hard to think of something). He concocts a plan to kill the Saint and the Warmaster by manipulating events so that the woe machines are brought into the fortress on Urdesh. Then he activates them using warp-magic. Except they were never meant to be dormant this long. Yoncy's easy, since she didn't have much of a personality as a baby-- the machine didn't even get the gender right. There's not much "real" Yoncy in there, just enough to respond to Kolea. But Dalin had a personality, and it grew stronger as he grew up and integrated with the regiment and became a Ghost. So when he activates, remnants of his personality remain, which is how Merity (who Dalin had a bit of a crush on) is able to get him to calm down long enough for Gaunt to put him down. It's not like the baby's gender was enough of a plot hole that Abnett had to think of something to fix it, but as an overarching plot I think this works. It's a bit of a gut punch, but if you're not ready for those why are you reading Gaunt's Ghosts?
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Jul 17, 2021 00:17
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:It's not like the baby's gender was enough of a plot hole that Abnett had to think of something to fix it, but as an overarching plot I think this works. It's a bit of a gut punch, but if you're not ready for those why are you reading Gaunt's Ghosts?  the whole time. It's a gut punch followed by a kick in the teeth.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWWOKBw_KVs So people got pissed off and harassed Sodaz to the point that he decided not to work with Games Workshop on animation projects. I was disappointed that he took down his videos after taking the GW offer, but death threats over taking a job opportunity? gently caress those people.
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Jul 17, 2021 01:11
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I’ve changed my mind and part way through, and I am now confident that Gate of Bones is in fact 5/5 real good just for having a custodian telling random traitors the emperor actually isn’t a god before offing them.
Sextro fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jul 17, 2021 |
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Jul 17, 2021 01:52
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Sextro posted:I’ve changed my mind and part way through, and I am now confident that Gate of Bones is in fact 5/5 real good just for having a custodian telling random traitors the emperor actually isn’t a god before offing them. That scene rules. I really liked Gate Of Bones mostly because it gets more into the gulf between how Custodes think compared to pretty much everybody else save some of the really old Space Marines. Also the Mordians were not how I expected them to be, but in a good way.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:11
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWWOKBw_KVs What did he make?
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Jul 17, 2021 02:51
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:What did he make? Someone re-uploaded their videos. They did some solid action pieces featuring Death Korps, Black Templars and Imperial Fists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU2oDhff-kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZM5__JtSOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjXuC3ljbMc A few months ago they were approached by GW to make official animations. However alongside the announcement all of their 40k videos were taken down, possibly due to the agreement with GW and what has caused the wave of harassment and death threats over "selling out."
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Jul 17, 2021 04:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:Someone re-uploaded their videos. They did some solid action pieces featuring Death Korps, Black Templars and Imperial Fists. I hadn't seen the Death Korps one before, though I had the other two. That one was pretty good.
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Jul 17, 2021 06:58
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Arquinsiel posted:I was reading that whole book thinking But Dalin is fine, right?
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Jul 17, 2021 09:32
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Arquinsiel posted:I was reading that whole book thinking But Dalin is fine, right?  I knew about the whole twist thanks to this thread, which made me want to read the book even more. And somewhat thanks to the expanded crusade book as well. But even then it was a massive gut punch. Also something I didn't realize until I read the expanded crusade book is that Abnett drops a mention of the eagle stones as far back as the prologue for the first book. Because the seer that shows up there rants about the nine being brought together. And then I realized there were nine Eagle Stones. I mean yes, he could've just done some retroactive changes. But even then it felt like such a throwaway line that suddenly might mean something in the end.
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Jul 17, 2021 15:05
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I may be wrong but I think the number 9 has significance across the series. Didn't Saint Sabbatine suffer 9 wounds during her pilgrimage? And there were the 9 assassins in Sabbat Martyr.
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Jul 17, 2021 15:16
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Cooked Auto posted:I mean yes, he could've just done some retroactive changes. But even then it felt like such a throwaway line that suddenly might mean something in the end. To me it sounds like the kind of thing you'd throw into a book and work out what it means later (or just constantly riff on it)
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Jul 17, 2021 15:36
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Arcsquad12 posted:I may be wrong but I think the number 9 has significance across the series. Didn't Saint Sabbatine suffer 9 wounds during her pilgrimage? And there were the 9 assassins in Sabbat Martyr. I haven't read this but, as someone whose brain is full of warhammer minutiae, it is worth noting that 9 is the sacred number of Tzeentch.
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Jul 17, 2021 17:35
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Working through the second Siege of Terra book and it's explaining what the Emperor is loving about with and how certain Primarchs are in on it, and others are left out and I can't help but think of Abnett's latest interview and Penitent and get an ah-ha moment. But then I think we've been stuck for 30 years with what we have and to suddenly flip it all on it's head would be insane and not happening. The only problem is in Dark Imperium would contradict a lot of what is being set up. Maybe it'll get retconned. I'd love it if they did. I gotta say tho, I am thoroughly enjoying the first two Siege of Terra books. Solid reads and above average, IMO.
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Jul 17, 2021 17:40
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Philthy posted:Working through the second Siege of Terra book and it's explaining what the Emperor is loving about with and how certain Primarchs are in on it, and others are left out and I can't help but think of Abnett's latest interview and Penitent and get an ah-ha moment. But then I think we've been stuck for 30 years with what we have and to suddenly flip it all on it's head would be insane and not happening. The only problem is in Dark Imperium would contradict a lot of what is being set up. Maybe it'll get retconned. Even the inconsistent authors like Graham McNeil do good work on the siege stuff. I think it was tightly plotted from the get-go.
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Jul 17, 2021 18:01
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Arcsquad12 posted:"selling out." Patton Oswalt has a great standup bit about idiots who don't know what selling out actually means and have that entitled sense of ownership over other people and things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r83DLU7oA
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Jul 17, 2021 18:35
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Inspector_666 posted:That scene rules. I really liked Gate Of Bones mostly because it gets more into the gulf between how Custodes think compared to pretty much everybody else save some of the really old Space Marines. Gate of Bones started really slow, but it picked up nicely as it went on. The Chaos cultist plotline develops well, and the Custodes and Mordian stuff gets better and better.
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Jul 17, 2021 19:12
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The Iron Hands' "current day" plotline is The Second Relief of Mordia and I hope it plays into Dawn of Fire eventually. Also I'd love to make a mordian guard army without having to convert historicals or hunt down metal models
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Jul 17, 2021 20:33
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Cadian Shock Troopers are getting a parts expansion for the first time in like a decade for their models and Death Korps have gone plastic for the Kill Team boxed set. I hope that there are expansion sets for Mordians or Steel Legionaires because holy hell is has been a long time since the Guard infantry models have had a full update. How does Mordia get a "second relief" anyways? I thought the planet turned into a Cadia 2.0 meat grinder.
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Jul 17, 2021 20:40
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Arcsquad12 posted:Cadian Shock Troopers are getting a parts expansion for the first time in like a decade for their models and Death Korps have gone plastic for the Kill Team boxed set. I hope that there are expansion sets for Mordians or Steel Legionaires because holy hell is has been a long time since the Guard infantry models have had a full update. In the new Traitor Rock book there are a couple of offhand lines about the Cadians and Mordians having a bond because they each lost their planet. Looking at the wiki though it looks like Mordia didn't fall, but barely held on and was hosed up extremely bad. Looks like it's about the only planet in it's sector that didn't fall to Tzeentch so I guess it still needs relief?
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Jul 17, 2021 20:54
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There's less of Mordia to conquer and therefore less territory to defend. Having a tidal locked planet with one side perpetually on fire does wonders for denying landing zones to would-be invaders.
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Jul 17, 2021 21:10
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Arcsquad12 posted:Cadian Shock Troopers are getting a parts expansion for the first time in like a decade for their models and Death Korps have gone plastic for the Kill Team boxed set. I hope that there are expansion sets for Mordians or Steel Legionaires because holy hell is has been a long time since the Guard infantry models have had a full update. The crusade defending the Stygies system abandoned it but after some meat grinding, the Iron Hands came by, meat ground some more and then retook it in a bid to retake the sector. Their successors and some other allies are currently holding the system in the Iron Crusade. The Iron Hands, sons of the Primarch Ferrus "Literal Iron Hands" Manus, who had Iron Hands, launched the Iron Crusade to retake the home of the Iron Guard Iron Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 17, 2021 21:23
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 warhammer is so bad but i love it
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Jul 17, 2021 23:27
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Biplane posted:
You just gotta hand(s) it to the authors, they try. Well, some of them.
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Jul 17, 2021 23:38
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Just finished Fire Caste. Would highly recommend.
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Jul 18, 2021 12:56
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