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the cops beating a kid to death: fascism an anarchist posse beating a kid to death: badass self determination,,, that kid deserved it,,,,, im crying rn,, this is how humans were meant to live,,,,,,,
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Jul 19, 2021 00:12
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Jul 19, 2021 00:15
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Ferrinus posted:sounds authoritarian worse, it sounds....hierarchical
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Jul 19, 2021 00:17
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Ferrinus posted:nope, lies. you do not and cannot stop yourself from being exploited. perhaps you can personally stop yourself from being physically beaten up or robbed by other private individuals, but you do unpaid labor day after day after day and cannot ever do anything about that on your own. there's nothing "meaningful" about your resistance because your boss and your landlord get to collect on your life-force no matter what you tell yourself at the end of the day i don't have a boss or landlord. i am literally nothing but resistance and a bad smell and it means everything to me Pentecoastal Elites posted:the cops beating a kid to death: fascism this guy gets it
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Jul 19, 2021 00:28
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evilpicard posted:The Germanic and sea people would later invent fascism. Really makes u think.
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Jul 19, 2021 00:38
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pnac attack posted:i don't have a boss or landlord. i am literally nothing but resistance and a bad smell and it means everything to me the enemy wins whether you die, get captured, or flee the field
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Jul 19, 2021 00:44
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docbeard posted:Hey guys? What if we...no violence...at all...guys? Violence, but we do it spontaneously Rules, but none of them are written down Authority, but with no process pnac attack posted:i hope they have the agency and support to not be victimized and that the perpetrators were changed in some way by their experience. i'm not arrogant enough to think that's all my responsibility though. would you feel better or worse about it if no one had stopped us from stomping the rapist all the way into the dirt? from here it kinda felt like a natural series of checks and balances led to the outcome it was supposed to "Not my responsibility" sums up your philosophy more than you should be willing to admit PhilippAchtel has issued a correction as of 00:48 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 00:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:I once asked: "what's an anarchist's plan for manufacturing a ventilator?" What is the answer to this in a post-communist society? Not being glib, actually want to know.
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Jul 19, 2021 04:00
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i am glad this thread exists to help me kill the last bit of anarchist in my head, because holy poo poo rutibex and pnac attack are loving stupid
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Jul 19, 2021 04:14
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I've long maintained that I would become an anarchist provided a non-idiotic way of doing so and so far it's not looking great for Team A.
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Jul 19, 2021 04:23
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Kaedric posted:What is the answer to this in a post-communist society? Not being glib, actually want to know. socialism develops the means of production to a high level and even when class has withered away technical infrastructure and its attendant administration doesn't have to this is, i'm sure, the exact same answer any thoughtful anarchist would give. they just really hate using certain words to describe means of collective self-defense
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Jul 19, 2021 04:24
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PhilippAchtel posted:"Not my responsibility" sums up your philosophy more than you should be willing to admit do you think it's yours? why? that's disturbingly megalomaniacal and doesn't lead anywhere i want to end up. like i know it's anecdotal but what would you feel your responsibility was in that situation?
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Jul 19, 2021 04:30
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Ferrinus posted:socialism develops the means of production to a high level and even when class has withered away technical infrastructure and its attendant administration doesn't have to This is sort of what I was thinking. The implication of the original question seems to be 'without a state, these things are not possible' and it sort of presupposes that the state will always be there.
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Jul 19, 2021 04:36
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Kaedric posted:This is sort of what I was thinking. The implication of the original question seems to be 'without a state, these things are not possible' and it sort of presupposes that the state will always be there. anarchists are correct that the state, as distinct from just government, administration, local custom, whatever, is a coercive apparatus whose chief application is class war, and therefore that there's no reason to expect for it to exist forever
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Jul 19, 2021 04:39
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i don't think most "anarchists" put a lot of thought into it and that's why it's cool. if dad used to hit you, bush dropped the towers, and every institution you've ever encountered was predatory it's kinda just a default assumption. more nuanced takes on authority don't turn up until you've got nice poo poo to justify having, at which point you suck
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Jul 19, 2021 05:00
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lmao
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Jul 19, 2021 05:03
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pnac attack posted:do you think it's yours? why? that's disturbingly megalomaniacal and doesn't lead anywhere i want to end up. like i know it's anecdotal but what would you feel your responsibility was in that situation? Yeah, I believe I'm my brother's keeper. Nature and fortune are merciless. It's our responsibility to look out for each other, because no one else will. The fact that sounds creepy to you is quite sad, honestly.
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Jul 19, 2021 05:09
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PhilippAchtel posted:Yeah, I believe I'm my brother's keeper. Nature and fortune are merciless. It's our responsibility to look out for each other, because no one else will. well you can't be, it's not remotely realistic to keep 8 billion brothers and that people of the book egotistical martyr poo poo is a lot of why things are so hosed now. try keeping a brother or two before you jump to farming them
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Jul 19, 2021 05:14
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pnac attack posted:i don't think most "anarchists" put a lot of thought into it and that's why it's cool. if dad used to hit you, bush dropped the towers, and every institution you've ever encountered was predatory it's kinda just a default assumption. more nuanced takes on authority don't turn up until you've got nice poo poo to justify having, at which point you suck How many rapists released into the world to keep raping is the individual liberty of someone worth? I only ask because you are otherwise super in favor of running on the whole "letting rapists prey upon people" thing per your own admission
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Jul 19, 2021 05:17
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"You claim to care abut Humanity? Name every human."
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Jul 19, 2021 05:20
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I was an anarchist for a pretty long time because I thought must of us believed that obviously sometimes a hierarchy would be nessacary, need a tank commander after all. And then anarchists kept looking at me funny when I asked them what should be done about counter revolutionaries.
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Jul 19, 2021 05:21
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Epic High Five posted:How many rapists released into the world to keep raping is the individual liberty of someone worth? I only ask because you are otherwise super in favor of running on the whole "letting rapists prey upon people" thing per your own admission yeah i ran in and did something about it because i'm so into letting rapists prey on people. this isn't really fun when you're *that* disingenuous bro. how many people locked up or dead is trying to combat evil institutionally worth to you?
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Jul 19, 2021 05:22
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pnac attack posted:anarchy is just what people who went to college call living right. all other ideologies are for babies who need someone to tell them what to do or monsters who want to call the shots i see people kept responding after you gave up the game
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Jul 19, 2021 05:24
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pnac attack posted:well you can't be, it's not remotely realistic to keep 8 billion brothers and that people of the book egotistical martyr poo poo is a lot of why things are so hosed now. try keeping a brother or two before you jump to farming them You're right I can't directly touch the lives of 8 billion people. I support those in my life in the small ways I can, but I still care for people I've never met. This is where setting a positive example and system analysis and improvement comes in. I don't just write people off because I've never and will never meet them. *That's* egotistical. Anyway, it's beyond clear that you only care about yourself, so discussing solidarity would be pearls before swine.
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Jul 19, 2021 05:26
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pnac attack posted:yeah i ran in and did something about it because i'm so into letting rapists prey on people. this isn't really fun when you're *that* disingenuous bro. how many people locked up or dead is trying to combat evil institutionally worth to you? Oh cool so they're locked up? Or are they still running around free raping people?
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Jul 19, 2021 05:27
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Dikkfor posted:"You claim to care abut Humanity? Name every human." humanity is a pretty abstract thing to have a relationship with, unlike raekwon and shirley and lobo and jack and dorsey and will PhilippAchtel posted:You're right I can't directly touch the lives of 8 billion people. I support those in my life in the small ways I can, but I still care for people I've never met. This is where setting a positive example and system analysis and improvement comes in. I don't just write people off because I've never and will never meet them. *That's* egotistical. as a well-read amateur political theorist i'm sure you have a far deeper understanding of solidarity than i could ever develop as a squatter
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Jul 19, 2021 05:32
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Almost as abstract as freedom, one might say
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Jul 19, 2021 05:34
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Epic High Five posted:Oh cool so they're locked up? Or are they still running around free raping people? i have no idea. maybe they did get locked up or hit by a train or turned their life around, how could i know that? i'm one guy and accepted that i wasn't omnipotent a long time ago. what would your response look like? pretend "appeal to authority and wash your hands" is off the table
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Jul 19, 2021 05:48
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pnac attack posted:i have no idea. maybe they did get locked up or hit by a train or turned their life around, how could i know that? i'm one guy and accepted that i wasn't omnipotent a long time ago. what would your response look like? pretend "appeal to authority and wash your hands" is off the table So like. Your ideal society is a bunch of anarchist communities that will "just deal with" a rapist? Cause I think the question is someone in the community is a rapist what do you do about that in a way that does not involve submitting to an authority?
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Jul 19, 2021 05:55
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pnac attack posted:as a well-read amateur political theorist i'm sure you have a far deeper understanding of solidarity than i could ever develop as a squatter You admitted you don't care about the results of your actions other than how it affects you or people you know directly. You believe that ideal so strongly you've come into a political forum to argue for it. Don't play this game where you imply people are judging you for being a squatter, because that ain't it.
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Jul 19, 2021 06:11
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we'd all not exist and none of this would be here without some sort of society. maybe that would be for the best.
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Jul 19, 2021 06:14
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Just send em out to rape in the next commune over. Didn't you read their earlier posts?
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Jul 19, 2021 06:14
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mcclay posted:i am glad this thread exists to help me kill the last bit of anarchist in my head, because holy poo poo rutibex and pnac attack are loving stupid
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Jul 19, 2021 06:14
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This honeypot thread rules
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Jul 19, 2021 06:19
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Sedisp posted:So like. Your ideal society is a bunch of anarchist communities that will "just deal with" a rapist? Cause I think the question is someone in the community is a rapist what do you do about that in a way that does not involve submitting to an authority? man i don't pretend to know what an ideal society is going to look like, all i know is that this one is terrible and i won't participate. i’m afraid to look the world in the eye. if nothing’s gonna change well then, i’d rather die. i’m too unemployed to organize a union. i’m too intoxicated to tear down a building. i’m too hopeless to look for a solution. i’m afraid that if I found one i’d be out of excuses. now i’m not saying that we can’t change the world, everybody does at least a little bit of that. but i won’t poo poo myself, the way I’m living is a temper tantrum and i need something else to stay alive. these are lyrics from a song you probably haven't heard of called "from here to utopia" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUojL5r3SwI PhilippAchtel posted:You admitted you don't care about the results of your actions other than how it affects you or people you know directly. You believe that ideal so strongly you've come into a political forum to argue for it. i didn't admit that at all, i was judging you for being an academic, and i came here to post
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Jul 19, 2021 06:25
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pnac attack posted:man i don't pretend to know what an ideal society is going to look like, all i know is that this one is terrible and i won't participate. I didn't ask for THE ideal society I asked for YOUR ideal society.
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Jul 19, 2021 06:40
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PhilippAchtel posted:Yeah, I understand that objection. It doesn't bother me so much because it's a ranked system that's focused on workers rather than aristocracy or politicians, and it melds with the theme of each suit being a type or profession. Master of Hammers, Journeyman of Sickles, etc. Tanks, Hammers, Sickles, Quills in descending order
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Jul 19, 2021 07:06
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i'm talking about operating at a scale you actually have agency at. governments are made up. if you just pretend they don't exist they pretty much don't. this system cannot stand so develop skills and get with your neighbors and work outside of it as much as you can. that's how everything works at the bottom anyways. if i climb it will be slow, i'm bringing everyone i know and stopping on the 6th or 7th rung. worry about the problems within your sphere of influence. where your actions actually matter. rapists exist and the world's on fire, but what can you do about that that's more useful than being there for whoever you're with?Sedisp posted:I didn't ask for THE ideal society I asked for YOUR ideal society. said i didn't know what AN ideal society would look like but i'll try again just for you. I like to think (and the sooner the better!) of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers live together in mutuality programming harmony like pure water touching clear sky. I like to think (right now, please!) of a cybernetic forest filled with pines and electronics where deer stroll peacefully past computers as if they were flowers with spinning blossoms. I like to think (it has to be!) of a cybernetic ecology where we are free of our labors and joined back to nature, returned to our mammal brothers and sisters, and all watched over by machines of loving grace.
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Jul 19, 2021 07:06
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yeah dude, I've read Ian M. Banks too
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Jul 19, 2021 07:09
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i been reading Conquest of Bread on my journey through leftist thought of the 20th century and I like kropotkin's optimism but drat he asserts some extremely stupid stuff. like repeatedly mentioning the failures of the Paris commune for sustainability but then within a few pages describing a revolutionary moment where once one European city becomes anarchist, in a few weeks every European city would become anarchist bc of some ethereal influence. and he presents no plan to protect against counter revolutionaries bc the example of anarchism is simply so astoundingly beautiful that capitalist exploitation in the transitory period towards global anarchism will just be happening elsewhere and that's fine and will just peter out eventually, somehow. but Utopianism is a nice dream and it's cool to think about trade unionists running factories with 5 hours of work a day or w/e making socks for their homies.
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Jul 19, 2021 07:21
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