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Everyone loved the politicking. A few of the battles were cool but I think the 2 best ones (Blackwater and The Watchers on the Wall) were directed by a guy who actually knew what he was doing. He also directed The Descent. It skipped the battle with Tyrion being on "The Left" and being a badass but in context it was fine.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:46
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Benjen refusing to get on the horse with Jon is up there with Forrest Whitaker's character in Rogue One going "Ah, you know what, I'll just die here rather than escaping with you byeeeeeeeeee" for pointless self-sacrificing.
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Jul 18, 2021 01:18
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There's no way they'd have gotten a politics-heavy ending right without a book to fall back on.
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Jul 18, 2021 01:38
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The “lore” says not-China has a massive series of fortifications in their northern border to defend against some legendary poo poo in their history that is pretty explicitly implied to be the same Long Night that happened to Westeros. So the Others/White Walkers are apparently a world wide threat. In the lore not-China (Yi Ti) is basically one of the vestigial remnant states of the mythical Great Empire of the Dawn. The GEOTD fell when the Bloodstone Emperor murdered his elder sister, the Amethyst Empress, and seized his throne. It was called the Blood Betrayal and according to their legends, directly started the Long Night. Which only ended when the hero Azor Ahai It's actually one of my foundational theories in the books that these two stories of "man kills woman" are actually about the exact same event, that the Bloodstone Emperor was Azor Ahai and he was the consort to his sister-wife the Amethyst Empress. That he killed his sister and wife in an attempt to prevent the Long Night, and yet in doing so, brought it forth, and he spent the rest of his days fighting against the terror he'd unleashed to repent for his crimes. Over time, people forgot that the great hero Azor Ahai who led the living against the Dead was also the Bloodstone Emperor who had caused the calamity in the first place. Being that in the books I fully believe Jon and Dany are brother and sister, I think the endgame is that they're going to unintentionally, and unknowingly, reenact the full event. Brother killing sister. Lover killing lover.
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Jul 18, 2021 12:25
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Sky Shadowing posted:In the lore not-China (Yi Ti) is basically one of the vestigial remnant states of the mythical Great Empire of the Dawn. The GEOTD fell when the Bloodstone Emperor murdered his elder sister, the Amethyst Empress, and seized his throne. It was called the Blood Betrayal and according to their legends, directly started the Long Night. Which only ended when the hero Azor Ahai Ah I missed your crackpot theorycrafting Sky  <3
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Jul 18, 2021 13:27
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TOOT BOOT posted:There's no way they'd have gotten a politics-heavy ending right without a book to fall back on. I'd probably have to watch the show again but I can't recall any time an action had any "logical" political consequences once they sorta ran out of book (they didn't really run out of book after 4 they just ignored a lot of them). And things from the good seasons that should've had political consequences just had some person going ham in a single scene like Arya with the Freys. poo poo even Ramsay isn't brought down by a great deal of Northern unrest there's a battle that requires outside interference to go the way of the good guys.
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Jul 18, 2021 14:40
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Sky Shadowing posted:In the lore not-China (Yi Ti) is basically one of the vestigial remnant states of the mythical Great Empire of the Dawn. The GEOTD fell when the Bloodstone Emperor murdered his elder sister, the Amethyst Empress, and seized his throne. It was called the Blood Betrayal and according to their legends, directly started the Long Night. Which only ended when the hero Azor Ahai Where does these lore details come from?
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Jul 18, 2021 18:51
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lezard_valeth posted:I don't get who their target audience for this is. Book readers are pissed at the show tarnishing and most likely being the only ending this franchise will get. The show never ever mentioned Yi Ti so Show only people very likely won't give a gently caress. Lmao, what? They're not expecting show watchers to go "oh man I know all these characters this is great" they're expecting show watchers to go "oh, another fantasy series? I guess that could be fun" You're overthinking this, and just declaring it so doesn't make it true. "fans goodwill" only amounts to people ITT. Most people who watched GOT in bars have moved the gently caress on, and aren't sitting around shitposting like we are. Orange Devil posted:The hilarious thing is that apparently football players and loads of other people loving loved GoT when it was about politicking and intrigue. D&D just had such utter disdain for their audience and probably people in general, but what can we expect from a bunch of silver spooned failsons? Exactly. The show was popular as it was, so they changed it to have none of what people liked about it, because they don't understand storytelling or their audience for poo poo.
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Jul 18, 2021 19:15
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TOOT BOOT posted:There's no way they'd have gotten a politics-heavy ending right without a book to fall back on. Eh, all they had to do was go with the writers who had written the show up to the final seasons and it would have been perfectly competent at least. Even the ACTORS knew the script was trash. If not for D&D playing at being writers it would have been perfectly reasonable, if not amazing.
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Jul 18, 2021 19:17
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A lot of people still liked the show when it stopped doing political storytelling including critics as the show had generally good reviews even during the bad seasons. I think season 5 reviewed better than 1 if you go by metacritic averages. And even though awards don't really matter all the bad seasons won the Emmy over Better Call Saul which is the best show on TV (though I guess that matters even less since even the general audience hated the last season).
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Jul 18, 2021 19:29
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Where does these lore details come from? The World of Ice and Fire, mostly. But my belief AA = BSE and NN = AE is just a theory. Because tell me two stories of a man killing a woman, both explicitly related to the first Long Night, and I'm going to wonder if they're the same story. Them being both brother and sister and husband and wife? This is ASOIAF. It's probably expected. That said if the parallels are more perfect, it would mean Dany might be older than Jon which in Valyrian would make him her Valonqar. Did the show cut the valonqar prophecy because they cut the sibling relationship? What if Cersei- who is very strongly foreshadowed and linked to wildfire- frames Dany and gives Jon the push to kill her? And when he discovers the truth, he blacks out in rage- a trait book Jon has- and strangles her to death?
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Jul 18, 2021 20:41
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Groovelord Neato posted:I'd probably have to watch the show again but I can't recall any time an action had any "logical" political consequences once they sorta ran out of book (they didn't really run out of book after 4 they just ignored a lot of them). And things from the good seasons that should've had political consequences just had some person going ham in a single scene like Arya with the Freys. poo poo even Ramsay isn't brought down by a great deal of Northern unrest there's a battle that requires outside interference to go the way of the good guys. Nope! Ellaria murders Doran and just ... like ... is in charge of Dorne now. Euron admits in front of everyone he killed Balon and everyone is like "Oh, OK then you can be the king of Iron Islands then". Ramsey's telling everyone he killed his dad; this was an unforgivable crime right? Guess not
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Jul 18, 2021 21:09
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PostNouveau posted:Nope! Ellaria murders Doran and just ... like ... is in charge of Dorne now. Euron admits in front of everyone he killed Balon and everyone is like "Oh, OK then you can be the king of Iron Islands then". Ramsey's telling everyone he killed his dad; this was an unforgivable crime right? Guess not Only kingslaying is unforgivable kinslaying is apparently fine.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:42
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An insane mind posted:Only kingslaying is unforgivable kinslaying is apparently fine. Except all of Danys people were just cool with Jon living.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:48
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Breaking guest right is also totally cool.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:53
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It's sort of like what happened in the real world over the last decade. The people in power just decided the long standing unwritten rules and  no longer mattered and there wasn't much anyone could do about it.e: I was joking 
stev fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 22:04
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stev posted:It's sort of like what happened in the real world over the last decade. The people in power just decided the long standing unwritten rules and These were very much not unwritten rules and if the show followed its own internal logic there would have been severe consequences. If the books ever come out (they won’t) it will go much differently. Despite his own bragging about how his world is grounded in Medieval history it has basically nothing in common with how feudalism worked BUT he at least understands enough to follow most of his own story logic.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:08
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stev posted:It's sort of like what happened in the real world over the last decade. The people in power just decided the long standing unwritten rules and But in the story they were adapting breaking the rules did matter. Freys were getting picked off and there was a Northern conspiracy against them and the Boltons. The Lannisters even expected the Red Wedding to have a backlash but figured it'd fall mostly on the Freys.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:14
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One of my favorite scenes in the first season was the one with Littlefinger and Varys having a private moment with two side characters recognizing each other's ambition. It's stuff like that that kills any rewatch for me.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:46
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Groovelord Neato posted:But in the story they were adapting breaking the rules did matter. Freys were getting picked off and there was a Northern conspiracy against them and the Boltons. The Lannisters even expected the Red Wedding to have a backlash but figured it'd fall mostly on the Freys. Also some God or Gods are real in the GRRMverse and they have power. The show just kind of forgot about that.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:17
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SunshineDanceParty posted:One of my favorite scenes in the first season was the one with Littlefinger and Varys having a private moment with two side characters recognizing each other's ambition. It's stuff like that that kills any rewatch for me. And then Varys just wrote letters to tell everyone who Jon was and didn't even have an exit strategy when Dany found out.
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Jul 19, 2021 00:00
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An insane mind posted:And then Varys just wrote letters to tell everyone who Jon was and didn't even have an exit strategy when Dany found out. At least Littlefinger tried to make a break for it.
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Jul 19, 2021 00:45
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bobjr posted:At least Littlefinger tried to make a break for it. Probably shouldn't have admitted to killing Lysa Arryn before that though
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Jul 19, 2021 01:06
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They had no idea what to do with Littlefinger after he killed Lysa. He basically single-handedly wins them Winterfell back and then he fails to manipulate 2 teenagers and gets executed for it.
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Jul 19, 2021 05:46
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TOOT BOOT posted:They had no idea what to do with Littlefinger after he killed Lysa. He basically single-handedly wins them Winterfell back and then he fails to manipulate 2 teenagers and gets executed for it. I was always partial to the theory that Littlefinger was such an acute nihilist that not only did he know that the Others were real, but he was actively trying to weaken Westeros as much as possible in preparation for their inevitable invasion once the Wall came down by creating sheer chaos for all sides and that he was, if not an outright agent for them, at the very least an incredibly useful idiot for them... and nothing ever came of it 
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Jul 19, 2021 05:53
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TOOT BOOT posted:They had no idea what to do with Littlefinger after he killed Lysa. He basically single-handedly wins them Winterfell back and then he fails to manipulate 2 teenagers and gets executed for it. I would loving love watching the Starks outsmart him. But we didn't see that poo poo, because it was more important to have a shocking reveal.
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Jul 19, 2021 06:04
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An insane mind posted:And then Varys just wrote letters to tell everyone who Jon was and didn't even have an exit strategy when Dany found out. Varys, one of the most "realpolitik" characters in the show, is shocked when the conqueror he invites to Westeros ends up killing more people than is perhaps necessary
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Jul 19, 2021 18:20
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Pattonesque posted:Varys, one of the most "realpolitik" characters in the show, is shocked when the conqueror he invites to Westeros ends up killing more people than is perhaps necessary Worse, he was shocked that she was going to invade the city at all because this would kill "tens of thousands" of people. Tens of thousands in a city with a population of half a million. That's like 2% casualties. This is the stated reason why he betrays her. What the hell did he think was going to happen in an invasion of Westeros?
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Jul 19, 2021 19:27
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TOOT BOOT posted:They had no idea what to do with Littlefinger after he killed Lysa. He basically single-handedly wins them Winterfell back and then he fails to manipulate 2 teenagers and gets executed for it. Considering how much the dude was supposed to know what’s what about everything, he seemed fairly undisturbed that he was sharing winterfell with a supernatural child assassin that wanted him dead.
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Jul 19, 2021 21:17
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A talking coyote posted:Considering how much the dude was supposed to know what’s what about everything, he seemed fairly undisturbed that he was sharing winterfell with a supernatural child assassin that wanted him dead. Also him seemingly not knowing Ramsay Bolton was a psychopathic torturer with a long and well known history of abusing women before firing Sansa off to his waiting arms was really boneheaded too. Especially because she was his one shot at securing political power over the North, literally half of the continent, and he basically ceded it to Ramsay without even thinking. And the only explanation he had for it when Sansa straight up called him out on it was "Well, I'd never do it again!"
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Jul 19, 2021 21:48
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A talking coyote posted:Considering how much the dude was supposed to know what’s what about everything, he seemed fairly undisturbed that he was sharing winterfell with a supernatural child assassin that wanted him dead. His arc was basically never declaring loyalty to anyone until they could safely benefit him more than whoever he'd betray by joining them and eventually people figure out what you're really about as you get cockier and cockier at your repeated successes. I've seen it happen and it's glorious. The problem was in the execution.
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Jul 20, 2021 04:06
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LividLiquid posted:This didn't bother me at all, 'cause Littlefinger had a lot of people who wanted to kill him in King's Landing at the start of the show. That’s true, I guess when half the nobles want to kill you at one point or another, you wouldn’t care too much if a face stealing teenager had you in their crosshairs.
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Jul 20, 2021 04:30
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It was absolutely Sansa that should have done him in, but it should have been some political masterstroke kinda poo poo and not some lazy tying up loose ends poo poo. Way too often the show just killed people off for cheap shock value when they didn't have further plans for them.
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Jul 20, 2021 06:00
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nine-gear crow posted:Also him seemingly not knowing Ramsay Bolton was a psychopathic torturer with a long and well known history of abusing women before firing Sansa off to his waiting arms was really boneheaded too. Especially because she was his one shot at securing political power over the North, literally half of the continent, and he basically ceded it to Ramsay without even thinking. And the only explanation he had for it when Sansa straight up called him out on it was "Well, I'd never do it again!" Yeah that was one of the first signs the story was in real trouble. Sansa's arc goes well between naively wanting Joffrey, suffering, getting with Tyrion and turning on Joffrey, escaping, learning from Littlefinger, and then.... She becomes a victim again, but worse. Why? In the books its not Sansa, but some other girl who is passed off as a fake Sansa. This makes about a billion times more sense, but... was too complicated for tv or something? Its like they wanted to give Sansa more to do, but also couldn't help themselves but push for more controversial scenes for shock value. Then they make Arya and Sansa both superpowered and stupid in the later seasons to try to make up for their total lack of agency.
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Jul 20, 2021 07:10
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The real lesson is not to let someone like Littlefinger talk. Just immediately stab him right in the face the second nobody else is looking.
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Jul 20, 2021 10:17
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One detail from the books is Littlefinger is seen as beneath a lot of characters because he’s only a minor lord and therefore not as worthy of attention as other characters, which lets him get away with a lot. Only Sansa and Tyrion really see him for who he is, and Tyrion only really catches on after he takes over the job and finds out he’s been loving with the finances behind the scenes. On the show they just let him show up and give speeches to everyone, including telling Cersei to her face with a bunch of armed guards he knows about the incest thing.
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Jul 20, 2021 13:33
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I don't remember book Littlefinger being nearly as dumb as show Littlefinger. I was thinking about the end of GoT today and honestly, lol at the treatment of the whole Dorne crew. As in the actors. Cast two beloved actors, three eighteen year olds, and one guy I don't know but who looked super cool. Give them all no or poo poo writing. Make sure the poo poo ones also have horrible gimmicks. Immediately write two out and give the other four some of the most gruesome on-screen deaths of the series. Bonus: 1. One of the teenagers must get topless for a scene that isn't even worthy of being called "sexposition" 2. There are literally like four other PoCs with notable roles in the whole show. Drogo, Grey Worm, Missandei, Oberyn... Salladoor?? Xoro Xoan Ducksauce? fuckin lol imagine being Areo, getting to go to costuming and see how fuckin badass your character is going to be, and how you get to chill with Alexander Siddig. Then reading the script.
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Jul 20, 2021 15:11
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Book Littlefinger is cunning but does like to gloat during/after his victory, show Littlefinger ended up smarmy and more interested in one-liner quips than planning.
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Jul 20, 2021 15:16
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I don't remember book Littlefinger being nearly as dumb as show Littlefinger. Littlefinger, Varys, and Tyrion are smart at the beginning of the show. weirdly enough around season 5 they start getting real fuckin dumb, I wonder what could have caused that???
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Jul 20, 2021 17:12
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Let’s put the women and the kids in the crypts.gif
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Jul 20, 2021 17:40
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