|
Nick Jr. Face posted:Thanks for reminding me how truly awful the Russo Era of WCW was, especially with the heavy use of insider terms on television, which was dumb considering a large segment of the audience didn't follow backstage news on the Internet. I still wonder if Russo genuinely thought they'd pop the house with "What's the matter, Sid? LOST YOUR SCISSORS?" when there were maybe a dozen people at most in the crowd would might have gotten it and most of them didn't care.
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:12 |
|
|
Even now twenty years later with the internet that much more ubiquitous and stories like the scissor incident discussed in podcasts it still wouldn't have gotten a pop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2021 16:35
|
|
|
Jim Cornette’s wife scissors
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2021 16:48
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1416805198027055109?s=19
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 18:20
|
|
|
Just stop emailing him Dave goddamn lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 18:30
|
|
|
Why do the likes of Dave and Kenny need to interact with Jim with feigned decorum? Annoys me to no end that we are expected to be civil to insane chuds.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 18:39
|
|
|
Feels more like extending an olive branch / making a plea for sanity than feigned decorum to me
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 18:49
|
|
|
Long-Time Lurker posted:Why do the likes of Dave and Kenny need to interact with Jim with feigned decorum? Annoys me to no end that we are expected to be civil to insane chuds. when people live on pure anger being nice to them during conflict makes them even more angry works a treat in retail when you get some shrieking dickhead. smile more and be polite while telling them they can't have their way and they will eventually make a fool of themselves/get dragged off by security
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 18:53
|
|
|
The thing that, on paper, got Alex Jones banned from Twitter is when he posted a video of himself harassing a journalist who was, in return, very polite and calm and didn't engage. Because that reaction was enough to push Jones behavior, doing essentially what Cornette does, into being abusive and harassing and qualify as bullying under Twitters TOS. So I kinda get it, even if we all know the real reason Jones got banned is cause he yelled at Jack.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
At some point you just have to accept someone doesn't want to talk to you, and in this case nothing of value is lost in not talking to Cornette anyway so why continue trying especially when they keep telling you to gently caress off on twitter for imaginary chud points with their broke brain followers Just block them and move on with your life lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
idk its probably not easy to just sit there and move on when someone you've been friends with for decades goes nuts and trashes you on his podcast every week while insisting that actually you're the one the went nuts and are trashing him on your podcast
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
Clearly virulent racism, misogyny, homophobia, and trans hate aren't deal breakers for Dave
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
I also definitely read that as a professional journalist reaching out to a "professional historian" professionally and then getting rebuked by Jim being insane.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
i hope cornette eats a tide pod
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:I also definitely read that as a professional journalist reaching out to a "professional historian" professionally and then getting rebuked by Jim being insane. It's not exactly a secret that, for reasons that have never been explained to me (as far as what set it off on his end), Dave and I had not gotten along for the last couple years. When Tom Cole died, knowing that the Observer obituary would be among most enduring records of the ring boy scandal, I called Dave and left a voicemail basically laying out how, with that in mind, I hoped he could set aside whatever poo poo was going on for the greater good. He did. We ended up going over a lot of important Cole stuff for over an hour, I sent him a bunch of documents, and we've been talking shop again pretty regularly since then. (Even if that wasn't my goal, I kind of suspected what the Cornette thing today kind of proved to me: That Dave appreciated the gesture and it changed his perspective.) I keep forgetting to set up a "clear the air" call with him—he's said enough stuff that I can't really explain that we need to set straight—but yes, whatever Dave's faults are, he's someone who generally feels that personal beefs shouldn't get in the way of important reporting, stuff that will be used for historical reference, etc. (It also seems like, more broadly, he has a somewhat improved perception of who is and isn't a troll as of late.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 06:28
|
|
|
At what point is it felt that Cornette really went off the deep end?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 06:55
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:At what point is it felt that Cornette really went off the deep end?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 06:57
|
|
|
The Dairy Queen video proves he was always a freak
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 07:57
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:At what point is it felt that Cornette really went off the deep end? I dont think he has really changed, he was always like this. The business just got less carny
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 07:58
|
|
|
Duke Pukem posted:I dont think he has really changed, he was always like this. The business just got less carny I thing this is exactly it. He's like those optical illusions where the same colour can register as white against a dark background or black against a light one. In the eighties and nineties there were so many people so much worse than him that he seemed reasonable (there's a reason he's a contributor to Dark Side Of The Ring rather than a subject). As the industry has changed and he hasn't, his opinions and attitudes have seemed less acceptable. Plus, of course, he is absolutely playing to a crowd.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 08:34
|
|
|
Pinche Rudo posted:Clearly virulent racism, misogyny, homophobia, and trans hate aren't deal breakers for Dave I think that's a fair criticism, but I also have to imagine at Dave's age and connected to a business where people drop dead too early it's kind of heartbreaking to think someone you called a friend could go to their grave hating you over nothing. The whole idea bums me out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 09:22
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:At what point is it felt that Cornette really went off the deep end? I feel like the mass acceptance that he was way far gone from what wrestling had changed to was during his time handling ROH. The Steen stories about that time are always insane and really showed how out of step he had gotten. Although the first real crack in the image was probably him slapping Santino and getting fired from OVW for it. He was no longer dealing with the maniacs and criminals he'd spent the 80s and 90s with. Everything since then has just been watching the downhill slope he's been on get steeper, and steeper, and steeper...
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 09:34
|
|
|
If he’s doing anything “right” (big quotes there) he misses the old days where he felt fans believed what was going on in the ring. He sees the ideal wrestling audience is a bunch of angry gullible marks, and he’s successfully built his own modern day following of exactly that, people who hang on his every word. Of course this is completely wrong, the old audiences didn’t believe anything. They just liked the spectacle and took it as an excuse to get rowdy. His audience now are the last people you’d actually want at a show, cracked idiots who can’t separate “I liked things more when I was younger” from actual reality that wrestling is probably better now, it’s just somewhat oversaturated like all entertainment, and you’re older.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 10:12
|
|
|
RealFoxy posted:When he was trying to "work" the smarks with Kenny & The Bucks to make money, but Cornette was saying personal stuff about them they weren't comfortable with and told him to gently caress off. It reminds me of the Shane Douglas - Ric Flair situation where Cornette felt safe bashing Omega and the Bucks because he didn't think they would ever have enough sway to get back at him and when they started really making waves was when he had an "oh poo poo" moment and tried to backpedal by claiming to have been working an angle the whole time. Do the Dark Side of the Ring guys know just how much of a piece of poo poo Cornette is and if not is there anyone on here close enough to them (not looking at anyone in particular) who could bring this stuff to their attention?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 11:58
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:At what point is it felt that Cornette really went off the deep end? It genuinely seemed like he mellowed out for a long stretch. So much of the worst poo poo was, while not an excuse, seemingly stress-induced, and the specificity of a lot of his political rants—as in he had been very specific about racial justice and police brutality, for starters, not just shitlib stuff—suggested that he had changed dramatically from the guy who said all of the awful poo poo he had said during the SMW era. Of course, it's more complicated than that, but it's probably not a coincidence that, with his dramatically increased travel schedule at the time as well as his father-in-law's illness, his stress levels when AEW launched were probably the highest they'd been in at least several years. That said, there were obviously tons of red flags that plenty of people, myself included, ignored for way too long. Regardless, the whole "willing to burn decades-long friendships over what pro wrestling they like" think is, as far as I know, a wholly recent development. So it's really a matter of what you consider "off the deep end," but "the last 26 months" is absolutely one of the acceptable answers. davidbix fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Jul 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 12:14
|
|
|
Saul Goode posted:It reminds me of the Shane Douglas - Ric Flair situation where Cornette felt safe bashing Omega and the Bucks because he didn't think they would ever have enough sway to get back at him and when they started really making waves was when he had an "oh poo poo" moment and tried to backpedal by claiming to have been working an angle the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 12:22
|
|
|
davidbix posted:Regardless, the whole "willing to burn decades-long friendships over what pro wrestling they like" think is, as far as I know, a wholly recent development. So it's really a matter of what you consider "off the deep end," but "the last 26 months" is absolutely one of the acceptable answers. Honestly, to me it seems like it was a longer time ago than 2 or so years but maybe that's because my perception of that is skewed. I just remember him really starting to double down on his shittiness a year or two before AEW even started. But I guess the new big promotion run by his most favorite rant subjects might have knocked him down even further. Love how everyone he's interacting with lately basically goes "Love you on Dark Side of the Ring / as a wrestling historian but please shut up otherwise" and I really have to agree with that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 12:26
|
|
|
davidbix posted:I don't know if I'd say that so much as it seems like he didn't think he was throwing particularly heavy shots at them, and obviously, that's changed. (Does anyone have a link to what he said about the Bucks' wives or kids or whatever that led to them never wanting to work with him? I don't remember ever actually reading/seeing/hearing any of it.) So when they happened to be booked on the same show, he thought that "lol we've got the only feud people believe in" would be a good ice breaker. I'm also not convinced he ever actually tried to convince them to work a program with him as much as that's how they took it. (Haven't their claims about this always been super vague?) I've only heard Matt or Nick say it and don't remember where. It was either Twitter or a Kevin Steen Show interview, I think, but I'm not sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 13:17
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:At what point is it felt that Cornette really went off the deep end? I would say the anti-Muslim rant in 2014, but you could easily say the email he wrote to Terry Taylor after he got fired from TNA about fantasizing to kill Russo. He'd obviously done deranged stuff before then, but he seemed to have the awareness to pull back when he went too far and save face. I feel like he still realized that after the email incident. But it was clear in 2014 he did not give a poo poo anymore. He was going to make his occupation "rant guy" and didn't care about his reputation, career prospects or anything. If he cost him co-hosts, jobs, friendships, he was going to be as racist, sexist, homophobic and dishonest as he wanted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 14:29
|
|
|
Cornette was never good, we just accepted more bullshit, as a society, previously so he got away with it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 14:34
|
|
|
I just remember going down the YouTube rabbit holes of AEW reactions/takes (it might have been Revolution 2020) and like 5 minutes in he implies that Kenny Omega is a pedophile and then says some gross poo poo about Riho and Shida. Really bizarre, turned it off. I believe he also said in the same video he was never going to watch AEW again lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 14:35
|
|
|
Here's what Dave had to say about Cornette and the fan who jumped the barricade in last week's newsletter.quote:The fan who hopped the rail at the beginning of the Chris Jericho/MJF segment, and Jericho threw a few punches at, later went on Twitter and claimed he did it for Jim Cornette and Vince Russo. In a moment it brought up the ugliest part of shock jocks, social media and mental illness all in one package. Both Cornette and Russo make it a habit of burying AEW, Cornette because the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega’s success hit a bad nerve because it proved times changed and he was out-of-touch and the more success they had the more he had to yell and scream that they weren’t. Russo was just mad because Khan would never hire him and he could pull the ratings stuff for people who don’t understand how television has changed in the last ten years. Anyway, you have this guy looking for attention from both Cornette and Russo, which is an irony in and of itself, saying he wanted to show these guys dressing up and playing wrestlers were pussies so he wanted to attack them. The guy was nuts, but he was encouraged by Cornette’s hate speech and wanted to impress Cornette, who promptly figuratively told him to go to hell and that he doesn’t condone anyone jumping the barricades. So that does put Cornette over Donald Trump, the guy he’s usually compared to, because Trump would have wished the guy well. Look, Cornette never wanted anyone to jump the rail, and the guy had a screw loose, but the guy went out and told everyone he did it to impress Cornette, and to a lesser extent Russo. Are they responsible because one of their listeners is a nutcase? No. Will either reflect on the fact that even though the guy was a nut, they were the ones who influenced him by their own over-the-top stuff? Of course not. Omega wrote “Is it finally time to assume some responsibility and dial the online persona back a bit? Your low IQ man children have evolved from parroting your comments to actually acting out in (attempted) violence.” Cornette responded by agreeing that the guy was a nut and that they agree on that one thing, and then said, “Two clarifications: Unlike you, I’ve seen violence in an arena and this wasn’t it, and secondly looking at your supporters, I wouldn’t toss the phrase low IQ around.” One thing for certain, Jim Cornette is among the last people who should talk about IQ levels of supporters because legitimately that’s the one thing he has in common with Vince Russo is some of the dumbest supporters which does reflect on their childish shock-jock attempts to rile people up for attention. The only difference is that Cornette is actually so entertaining people still talk about him while Russo is almost completely ignored at this point. Brian Last tried to deflect from the subject saying that Omega should cut bait with Don Callis for how he treated women behind the scenes in Impact and said, “Bad things only count when they’re done by people who criticize your bad in-ring emoting.” Last hasn’t cut bait with Cornette, so that probably wasn’t the tact to take. Omega responded to Cornette saying, “Hey Jim, I think you’re one of the greatest wrestling historians going and I enjoyed your work with Dark Side of the Ring. For whatever it’s worth, I sincerely hope that you’re remembered for your positive contributions to the wrestling business. That’s all.” Nobody can take away from Cornette that he is an entertaining talker and is great on Dark Side, but that doesn’t take away that his catering to the lowest common denominator did lead to nutjobs having irrational hate on people for no reason other than he riled then up, and ultimately that’s what created the situation in question. The sad part of all this, and this really is the sad part, is that all the attention created by this situation and that “big stars” like Cornette and Omega and Matt Hardy and many others were talking about this lowlife is an encouragement to others to follow suit and the best thing would be for everyone to just pretend he doesn’t exist and for people like me not to have to cover them. So did anyone learn a thing from this? Perhaps, but not the people who needed to
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 15:09
|
|
|
Given some of the things Jimbert has said about Kenny, I'm sorta amazed by Kenny frequently taking the high road. I also respect it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 15:30
|
|
|
Vince MechMahon posted:Cornette was never good, we just accepted more bullshit, as a society, previously so he got away with it. It's this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 15:38
|
|
|
Seams posted:Here's what Dave had to say about Cornette and the fan who jumped the barricade in last week's newsletter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
Nick Jr. Face posted:Not only is he right, but this is also probably the most coherent paragraph I have read from Meltzer about anything I'm glad I don't usually read anything from Meltzer because that paragraph could have easily been five or six paragraphs without changing any of the text and be infinitely more readable. He is correct, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 16:28
|
|
|
Meltzer's writing is just like his office.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 16:43
|
|
|
I love when Dave calls Cornette a shock jock, time for him to be covered on Shocktober.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 16:46
|
|
|
if you can manage it i recommend listening to at least the beginning part of jim talking about the hangman segment from dynamite for one of the most scathing insights into his mind possible told to you by the man himself like forget just being out of touch with wrestling, he's out of touch with thousands of years of basic storytelling and psychology
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 23:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:12 |
|
|
MassRafTer posted:I would say the anti-Muslim rant in 2014, but you could easily say the email he wrote to Terry Taylor after he got fired from TNA about fantasizing to kill Russo. He'd obviously done deranged stuff before then, but he seemed to have the awareness to pull back when he went too far and save face. I feel like he still realized that after the email incident. But it was clear in 2014 he did not give a poo poo anymore. He was going to make his occupation "rant guy" and didn't care about his reputation, career prospects or anything. If he cost him co-hosts, jobs, friendships, he was going to be as racist, sexist, homophobic and dishonest as he wanted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2021 00:34
|
|