(Thread IKs:
ZShakespeare)
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Fidelitious posted:I'm so confused as to how this happened. There seems to be a fairly widespread view that Moderna is somehow inferior to Pfizer and it's like it just bubbled up out of nowhere. They're pretty much identical in terms of technology, efficacy, and side effects so what the hell happened? Hell, Moderna could be considered better from a logistics view because it doesn't require as cold temperatures for storage. The two biggest reasons seem to be people thinking there has been no testing on mixing them and that Moderna side effects are way worse. The biggest reason I hear from the under-40 crowd is fear that it will affect fertility. So its literally Facebook brain poisoning.
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Jul 20, 2021 15:36
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Another Bill posted:Other countries are doing vaccine mixing, following Canada's lead. Thailand, France, Germany.... a quick Google and it looks like India and ASEAN are considering making it their official policy soon too. The sad irony is that while I agree that it won't be a problem for Canada/Germany/France/Denmark et al, I'm willing to bet it will be for developing countries. In fact I think if you surveyed Canadians today about whether they would feel comfortable letting in people that have been vaccinated with SinoVac or Sputnik the majority would say no.
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Jul 20, 2021 15:42
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I am sure that every country will come to an agreement. I myself am mixed dosed as I didn’t care what I got. I’m just making the point that not everyone who is vaccine shopping is doing it for trivial reasons. If my job depended on travel I would certainly want what would guarantee me the best luck of doing so until they work all of this out. Not everyone is a vax snob or a chud Just a lot of them
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Jul 20, 2021 15:42
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Starks posted:The sad irony is that while I agree that it won't be a problem for Canada/Germany/France/Denmark et al, I'm willing to bet it will be for developing countries. In fact I think if you surveyed Canadians today about whether they would feel comfortable letting in people that have been vaccinated with SinoVac or Sputnik the majority would say no. Oh yeah for sure. The neoliberal goal has long been free trade for goods but restricted immigration for people. In other words, let the poors stay where they are and be cheap labour so we can be rich. COVID gives that ideology a shot in the arm.
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Jul 20, 2021 16:00
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My husband and I are both Pfizer first Moderna second. I had no side effects for either, but my husband got really feverish and chills for like 30 hours after, then he bounced back. When I called to make the appointment I was specifically asked to agree not to leave of the vaccine wasn't my first choice, and lo it wasn't and there was a woman there saying she wouldn't accept the Moderna vaccine and left. My husband is American and we still don't care about the mix and match, we both consider it better to be double vaxxed than piss around about needing the preferred choice. I'm not taking my chances with variants.
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Jul 20, 2021 16:00
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So apparently there have been over 400 complaints that Mary Simon doesn't speak French and therefore should not be the new GG because she won't represent the francophone community of Canada. http://globalnews.ca/news/8039614/governor-general-mary-simon-official-languages-investigation/ quote:
Considering the rather appalling historic relationship between Indigenous groups and French catholics it's pretty rich that they're outraged over this. Get the gently caress over yourselves or build a time machine and go the gently caress back to Abraham and take the bullet for Montcalm.
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Jul 20, 2021 16:15
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Arcsquad12 posted:So apparently there have been over 400 complaints that Mary Simon doesn't speak French and therefore should not be the new GG because she won't represent the francophone community of Canada. Quebecers doing a racism? Say it ain't so!
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Jul 20, 2021 16:26
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Another Bill posted:Other countries are doing vaccine mixing, following Canada's lead. Thailand, France, Germany.... a quick Google and it looks like India and ASEAN are considering making it their official policy soon too. A key difference here though is as far as I can tell is nobody else is mixing specifically Pfizer and Moderna which yeah they're super close and it looks like there aren't any issues based on Canada's real world experience but there isn't really any study to point to like there is for mixing AZ/other vaccines. It would have been nice if after announcing Pfizer/Moderna mixing Health Canada had combined it with a short ongoing observational study or whatever just to give something to point other countries to but as far as I can tell they just didn't do that. It'll be ironed out in the future sure but it's still leading to a lot of disappointment now. Take the example of my roommate. He's double vaxxed with Pfizer/Moderna, hasn't seen his family in Ireland in two years and was real excited to try and plan a trip for the fall. As of now he can't because Ireland specifically won't recognize the Pfizer/Moderna mix as double vaxxed. There may be a limited window this year where international travel is still easier vs. a possible delta spike in the fall and winter and if he misses it, could be another year before he can go back. So from his perspective if he'd waited a few weeks or shopped around for a second Pfizer dose he could be booking tickets to see his family now vs. all he has to go on is a vague "We're working on it" from the Feds. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 20, 2021 |
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Jul 20, 2021 17:08
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Arcsquad12 posted:So apparently there have been over 400 complaints that Mary Simon doesn't speak French and therefore should not be the new GG because she won't represent the francophone community of Canada. gently caress these people so much. Jesus Christ.
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Jul 20, 2021 17:14
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Beelzebufo posted:gently caress these people so much. Jesus Christ. Are you implying they don't actually care (or know what the GG is/does) and are just being racist? That doesn't sound very Canadian.
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Jul 20, 2021 17:16
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Look reconciliation is good and all but have you considered how the French language needs to be represented on the global stage! Who's the real victim here, huh, English man?
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Jul 20, 2021 17:30
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French isn't really that hard to learn Unless you are Kevin O'Leary
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Jul 20, 2021 17:38
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Say she wants to, take a token step, choke out a phrase and then never touch it again. Kinda like what the feds do whenever reconciliation becomes an issue
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Jul 20, 2021 17:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:So apparently there have been over 400 complaints that Mary Simon doesn't speak French and therefore should not be the new GG because she won't represent the francophone community of Canada. I think Cindy Blackstock said it pretty well: https://twitter.com/cblackst/status/1417454886057390081?s=20
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Jul 20, 2021 17:52
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:A key difference here though is as far as I can tell is nobody else is mixing specifically Pfizer and Moderna which yeah they're super close and it looks like there aren't any issues based on Canada's real world experience but there isn't really any study to point to like there is for mixing AZ/other vaccines. It would have been nice if after announcing Pfizer/Moderna mixing Health Canada had combined it with a short ongoing observational study or whatever just to give something to point other countries to but as far as I can tell they just didn't do that. Are you sure they aren't doing that? They are tracking all vaccinations and all infections after vaccination to calculate vaccine efficacy. They have all the data to calculate vaccine efficacy after mixed doses. I would assume they are doing this but it's not a formal study because it's just based on their routine administrative data/vaccine surveillance. Edit: sorry for the double-post.
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Jul 20, 2021 17:55
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It's why I hate the language watchdog so much. In theory it is should be used to prevent the intentional marginalization of the official languages but in practice it's used to stamp down anything that isn't French, to the point where the greeting Bonjour-Hi makes the nationalists apoplectic.
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Jul 20, 2021 18:46
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calling people racist over this seems like a stretch when you know they'd be getting the same complaints regardless of the GG's ethnicity. That being said, GG seems like the absolute last government job you should need French for.
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Jul 20, 2021 18:51
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How many government jobs have a French requirement that doesn't exist past the questionnaire and application page on Canada.ca
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Jul 20, 2021 19:03
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It's racist because even the expectation of this on the part of a someone like Mary Simon is absurd. It it was some white anglo dude, gently caress yes, skewer them for not knowing French. The indigenous woman who has proactively said she will learn, wanted to learn but was denied it? Find these complainers and cut there fingers and their tongues off. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 20, 2021 19:30
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Beelzebufo posted:It's racist because even the expectation of this on the part of a someone like Mary Simon is absurd. It it was some white anglo dude, gently caress yes, skewer them for not knowing French. The indigenous woman who has proactively said she will learn, wanted to learn but was denied it? Find these complainers and cut there fingers and their tongues off. 
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Jul 20, 2021 19:35
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I wouldn't go that far. I would have just granted Quebec sovereignty over Quebec City in exchange for never being allowed to influence federal politics or international relations ever again. They want sovereignty, they can have it as a rump state as racist and bigoted as they like in a small, concentrated area that is easy to quarantine from the rest of the world. I had a similar idea for the western provinces but the quarantine zone is a tad larger.
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Jul 20, 2021 19:40
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Starks posted:calling people racist over this seems like a stretch "People are only allowed to be a part of the government if they speak these two specific European languages" is racism.
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Jul 20, 2021 19:40
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*banging my hands on the table, chanting* Balkanization!
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Jul 20, 2021 19:41
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Arcsquad12 posted:I wouldn't go that far. I would have just granted Quebec sovereignty over Quebec City in exchange for never being allowed to influence federal politics or international relations ever again. They want sovereignty, they can have it as a rump state as racist and bigoted as they like in a small, concentrated area that is easy to quarantine from the rest of the world. The issue with that is that Quebec City is a beautiful city, with a lot of nice things. Can we just give them Trois-Riviere's instead?
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Jul 20, 2021 19:48
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Starks posted:calling people racist over this seems like a stretch when you know they'd be getting the same complaints regardless of the GG's ethnicity. That being said, GG seems like the absolute last government job you should need French for. Hello friends, today we will discuss systemic racism and why "they'd bitch about anyone for this, it's not racist!" is a dumb loving argument! When the thing that people complain about is a habitual aspect of one specific group more than another, especially when that difference results from targeted government policies or innate characteristics, it's discriminatory against that group! Yes, it's true! Other great examples of this lovely line of logic include "gay people have the same rights as straight people, they can get married to someone of the opposite sex," "dreadlocks are considered an unacceptable hairstyle for everyone," and "no one is allowed to wear do-rags, it's not racist!" Apart from that, you can also make the point that she is completely bilingual, and in fact speaks a marginalized language that is actually under threat as opposed to one that a bunch of delusional loving rear end in a top hat racists simply believe is under threat. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 20, 2021 19:56
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Would the official languages commissioner accept complaints that David Johnson didn't speak Inuktitut? No? Hmmmm.....
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Jul 20, 2021 20:13
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Inuktitut isn't a real language that is under threat from English imperialism like poor defenseless Franglish.
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Jul 20, 2021 20:24
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Goosed it. posted:Are you sure they aren't doing that? They are tracking all vaccinations and all infections after vaccination to calculate vaccine efficacy. They have all the data to calculate vaccine efficacy after mixed doses. I would assume they are doing this but it's not a formal study because it's just based on their routine administrative data/vaccine surveillance. I'm no scientist but my understanding is this is considerably weaker evidence than a proper study, there's just too many confounding factors. Hopefully it's enough to lift travel restrictions! We also could've done a study on spreading doses out longer than three weeks, except we said "gently caress it" then too. Honestly, it's great that people are getting vaccinated so soon and so quickly, but we're doing a lovely job in a lot of ways.
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Jul 20, 2021 20:25
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Another Bill posted:Oh yeah for sure. The neoliberal goal has long been free trade for goods but restricted immigration for people. In other words, let the poors stay where they are and be cheap labour so we can be rich. COVID gives that ideology a shot in the arm. I actually don't fully agree with that - neo-liberal parties tend to actually increase immigration, even if they make noises about doing the opposite (because you can pay immigrants way way less, no-one gives a poo poo about their working conditions and you can take well-educated/trained people out of other countries which is way cheaper for businesses than doing it yourself)
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Jul 20, 2021 20:30
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pokeyman posted:I'm no scientist but my understanding is this is considerably weaker evidence than a proper study, there's just too many confounding factors. Hopefully it's enough to lift travel restrictions! The post I was responding to was suggesting an observational study in tandem with the roll-out. But, to respond to what you're saying, yes and no. If confounding is evenly distributed across comparators then it's not a big deal (basically cancels out), and if confounding is both measurable and measured (e.g., age) then analysis can adjust for it. The challenge is with unmeasured and unknown confounding. This is an issue even in RCTs but the assumption is that successful randomization should yield comparable groups. In observational studies, we can look to see if their are differences and then adjust for specific confounders. But we can also use more advanced techniques. For example we can create groups of people that are matched on their probability to be in a given group (called propensity score matching). Observational studies will give a better understanding of real world vaccine performance because you are measuring the risk associated with people living their lives without observation vs people who know they are in a study. There are also lots of research questions for which RCTs are not possible or RCTs are unable to address. In this case, an RCT wouldn't be able to answer questions about the emergent preventative impact of vaccines (and mixed vaccines vs same-same regimens).
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Jul 20, 2021 20:56
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I was lucky enough to get a dose of AZ in BC in early May, and then I had to take a long trip back to the United States, where I got two shots of Pfizer. I had some reservations about mixing / doing an extra dose, but the risks seemed low, and I didn't want to end up having to explain that I got two different shots in different countries any time I might need to provide proof of vaccination. I returned recently to find a letter from the provincial government to sign up for my second dose here. What's the best course of action? Should I try to call them and explain my situation? Go ahead and sign up for another shot of whatever? I don't think it would hurt, but I'd rather not take one away from others who could benefit more, lots of my friends here in BC haven't been able to get a second dose yet. Or maybe just ignore the letter for now, until there's some kind of formal system for recognizing US vaccinations here?
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Jul 20, 2021 21:50
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I was expecting the fundie vaccination problem to solve itself in one way or another over time. I thought it was gonna be through people killing themselves through stubbornness, but this seems even better since they won't be clogging up the ICU. Sucks for the places they're emigrating to though. Vaccine fears fuel exodus from Winkler area quote:Some residents of Winkler and the surrounding municipalities who are opposed to COVID-19 vaccinations have chosen to leave Canada to avoid getting the injection.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:17
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gloom posted:I was lucky enough to get a dose of AZ in BC in early May, and then I had to take a long trip back to the United States, where I got two shots of Pfizer. I had some reservations about mixing / doing an extra dose, but the risks seemed low, and I didn't want to end up having to explain that I got two different shots in different countries any time I might need to provide proof of vaccination. They should be able to recognize your CDC receipt, I imagine. It's a problem for plenty of people, snowbirds and the like.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:18
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Beelzebufo posted:Would the official languages commissioner accept complaints that David Johnson didn't speak Inuktitut? No? Hmmmm..... No because Inuktitut isn't a recognized official language of Canada while French is.
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Jul 20, 2021 23:09
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supersnowman posted:No because Inuktitut isn't a recognized official language of Canada while French is. hmm I wonder why that is. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Jul 20, 2021 23:24
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supersnowman posted:No because Inuktitut isn't a recognized official language of Canada while French is. Why not? 
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Jul 20, 2021 23:26
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bunnyofdoom posted:The issue with that is that Quebec City is a beautiful city, with a lot of nice things. Can we just give them Trois-Riviere's instead? What? No way - Trois Rivieres is one of the few affordable and liveable working class cities left in Canada with regards to cost of living expenses. At least, provided you don't live downwind from the pulp and paper mill.
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Jul 20, 2021 23:46
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Arcsquad12 posted:So apparently there have been over 400 complaints that Mary Simon doesn't speak French and therefore should not be the new GG because she won't represent the francophone community of Canada. How do we know who what percentage of the 400 people are Francophone Canadians? For all we know, a good portion of these complainants might have come from unilingual english-speaking individuals with a dislike of both Francophones and Indigenous peoples, and are now raising a technicality to get their wish.
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Jul 21, 2021 00:00
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Frankly I hope she refuses to speak both official languages
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Jul 21, 2021 00:09
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PT6A posted:Hello friends, today we will discuss systemic racism and why "they'd bitch about anyone for this, it's not racist!" is a dumb loving argument! I think you're confusing systemic vs. individual racism. I'm not arguing against Simon's appointment and I agree the practice of hiring bilingual GGs is inherently racist because indigenous students aren't offered the same education, to put it very mildly. The rule is absolutely discriminatory, I just don't think you can say the people writing to the commission are motivated by race if they would do the same thing regardless of ethnicity. This should be obvious but you and a few others in this thread have a serious case of QDS (Quebec Derangement Syndrome).
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Jul 21, 2021 00:18
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