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Alctel posted:Interesting thread.
indiscriminately fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 16:17
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Alctel posted:Interesting thread. Turns out that you can take your mask off and there are practically no repercussions in America. So why bother?
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Jul 21, 2021 16:22
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Wealth inequality is at all time record levels that put Ancien Regime France to shame, that has never, ever been politically sustainable long term even before you factor in social media.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:36
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I feel like with the older generations (…ok, white upwardly mobile boomers. It’s them and maybe a smidge of Gen X) that they were the “end of history” and that they got the loving Yub Nub scene when the USSR crumbled and clearly things will only get better through inertia. No nuclear war to worry about, the ozone layer? We can make some satellite or something, income inequality? Uh, computers. Racism is gone with a mere speech and like one law. And then whoops poo poo isn’t getting better and that they’re to do something. This is the moment where their generation was to put selfish needs aside, like every generation did prior for them, and think about the future, and I’d say they hosed it up but that would imply that they did something, which they did not. Let the good times roll!!!! Now as their kids grew up with the internet and how it gave us more information, said kids learned that it isn’t getting better, it is getting catastrophically worse, it has been bad for many people for a long time (because I cannot paint a white baby boomer the same as one of color, not straight, not Christian, etc), we are literally killing our planet. Now more and more those kids are adults, having to clean up the mess of the parents while trying to shape something, anything for the future ahead, if there is any. Every generation prior to baby boomers seemingly had instilled a sense of duty now for the future and the boomers were like “Nah I’d rather do coke” which believe you me I’m very pro! Very pro doing drugs! but like, let’s do it after fixing systemic inequality and mass heat death. let’s have the good times roll AFTER we fix some poo poo. So, as the kids of boomers age up, and learn that no one was performing basic maintenance on this whole “functioning society and planet” thing - we’re rightfully pissed! They were given keys to the castle and recreated Salo! And when we go “hey what gives” instead of an answer we get heads buried in sand. We get unbridled rage. We get told that this is our fault for participation trophies that they gave us as kids. We don’t deserve nice things like “retirement”, “a habitable planet” or “basic human needs met” because we didn’t work for them despite the fact that we were kids, and they were the adults in charge who didn’t work for them, the prior generations did. It’s a mass shirking of responsibility and when called out they cannot look themselves in the mirror and admit their failures. Again, this isn’t every boomer, some actually did the loving legwork and wanted to set up a better world for the future. To never have to deal with the insane bullshit they did. They did the duty then for the future now. But a lot…didn’t.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:40
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It started with 9/11. Well, the current wave did; there's always been self-righteous shitheads and wanna-be aristos looking to lord it over everyone else. But 9/11 gave the nation a moment of moral clarity. Everyone was together, for one glorious instant. And then we (or at least our (mostly) elected leaders) used that to shove us into two foreign military excursions that we're still detangling from. And that's where the line was drawn; to admit that they hosed up was to call all their presumed moral superiority into question. So rather than live in the terrain, they swore allegiance to the map. And when a smooth-talking cappuccino man with the middle name Hussein showed up in office, well, all that doubt-driven fear and anger had to go somewhere...
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Jul 21, 2021 21:24
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Yeah the reason that the rank-and-file conservatives have "taken a nose dive" is because their entire ideology is being exposed as bullshit in real time and they realize that they might have to admit to their liberal children(who are now adults) that they were wrong So instead they double, triple, quadruple-down on this bullshit
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Jul 21, 2021 22:09
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teen witch posted:I feel like with the older generations (…ok, white upwardly mobile boomers. It’s them and maybe a smidge of Gen X) that they were the “end of history” and that they got the loving Yub Nub scene when the USSR crumbled and clearly things will only get better through inertia. No nuclear war to worry about, the ozone layer? We can make some satellite or something, income inequality? Uh, computers. Racism is gone with a mere speech and like one law. Somewhere along the line, I feel like my generation hasn't even been given the keys to the castle yet. I look at the age of the people at the tops of the ladders--in politics, jobs, etc.--and it's people the age of my parents, not people my own age. Why is my generation being blamed for the failings of the world, when we're not even given enough control to attempt repairs?
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Jul 22, 2021 14:53
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A lot of the tech sector and related industry is run by Gen X and older millennials. E.g. social media is our fault. We're not much better than the boomers, sad to say.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:16
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indiscriminately posted:A lot of the tech sector and related industry is run by Gen X and older millennials. E.g. social media is our fault. We're not much better than the boomers, sad to say. The bad parts are from the billionaires which are largely pre-millennial. But millennial billionaires will be just as bad.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:23
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Yeah, you can definitely find a perspective where much of the blame falls elsewhere. In understanding who best to be angry at it's helpful to have the concept of fundamental attribution error. Applied here I think it would be that yes the boomers have made things quite bad, but if you could have slotted some other generation in their place then that generation would have made things approximately as bad. It's the environment/system that is the problem, in aggregate we humans are thralls to the system.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:39
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teen witch posted:I feel like with the older generations (…ok, white upwardly mobile boomers. It’s them and maybe a smidge of Gen X) that they were the “end of history” and that they got the loving Yub Nub scene when the USSR crumbled and clearly things will only get better through inertia. No nuclear war to worry about, the ozone layer? We can make some satellite or something, income inequality? Uh, computers. Racism is gone with a mere speech and like one law. There is something to be said that the USSR represented both a clear existential threat and ideological threat to the United States. The constant fear of nuclear annihilation and upending of your society put people on guard for a long time. That all disappeared in 1991. With no clear huge ideological threat to the United States, lots of people started to look inward and they don't like what they find. Add to the fact that we are the most educated generation ever and its creating conflict between previous generations. After 9/11 there was kind of an ideological threat and people felt threatened but as time has gone on, I think most people don't fear a radical Islamic takeover to the same degree they fear the communists nuking us to oblivion. Also, lets be real the system failed millennials and is failing Zoomers and the boomers can't possible accept that.
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Jul 22, 2021 16:45
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indiscriminately posted:A lot of the tech sector and related industry is run by Gen X and older millennials. E.g. social media is our fault. We're not much better than the boomers, sad to say. Thank you for this insight and context.
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Jul 22, 2021 17:46
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A lot of the people using social media use it for good things, BLM and metoo etc, but this is in conflict with the structural effects of it which are IMO a product of it being a money making exercise and so if anything the argument seems to be that capitalism just makes people bad.
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Jul 22, 2021 20:09
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OwlFancier posted:A lot of the people using social media use it for good things, BLM and metoo etc, but this is in conflict with the structural effects of it which are IMO a product of it being a money making exercise and so if anything the argument seems to be that capitalism just makes people bad. Yeah, if the Social Dilemma is worth reacting to at all, it made me realize a sizeable portion of the bringers of the apocalypse are contrite and either weren't thinking about or couldn't conceive the consequences of The Algorithm. Could be the motivations of capitalism drove these ambitious geniuses, I guess, but I kept feeling like those people personally realized - although too late - that that they summoned Tiamat into the world expecting riches and glory and (hey maybe) utopia and had to come to terms with their involvement in the end of modern civilization as we know it, and not for the better like they optimistically assumed. Not that it absolves them if anything, of course, but I can vaguely imagine myself a much younger desperate, debt-ridden 60-80HR/wk tech bro naively trying to change the world for that ad driven payout. I had to explicitly choose not to go that way. ILL Machina fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 23:41
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Glory to Italia!
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I had a big post that I accidentally deleted but broadly I think that a lot of the problems you might observe and attribute to social media are actually things it is necessary to overcome, not things that can or should be put back in the box. The problem with complete information freedom is that it replaces the previous information hegemony, which manufactured a consensus by ensuring that what information was available was decided only by a handful of platform owners, and instead now we have a transitonal state where the much more laissez faire approach of the social media platforms is causing multiple consensuses to be established. But I am hesitant to suggest that a desirable solution can be "get the platform owners to decide what information people can access" because that would absolutely return you to the days of institutionalized racial violence being swept under the rug at every level, and I also think it would stamp out a lot of the improvements that have been made with things like LGBT acceptance, especially among younger people who have had the opportunity to grow up with access to cultivated environments where a better kind of society is being trial run, essentially. Where once you would have to haul off into the wilderness and get eaten by bears to start intentional communities, now you can do it online and it is much easier to find people across the world who want to be a part of it. And I think that the ways of thinking and acting that you learn in those inclusive places filters out into the physical world too, and informs your politics, your conduct, everything. This is all stuff that the cultural hegemony of yesterday could not abide, and it is through, I think, people being able to find each other and create groups where they reinforce and build on each other's ideas that we have had some of the best improvements of recent years. And critically, I think, a lot of the biggest problems that we are facing are coming from much older power structures that are looking increasingly intrinsically conservative by comparison. And it is through people seizing or continuing to control those power structures that we are in most of the poo poo we are in. I don't think, honestly, that it is quite right to point the finger at the decentralization of information in light of that. People who are more naturalized to a decentralized information environment I think are doing much better than people who aren't, or who are otherwise entrenched additionally in pre-existing centralized power structures. People who are, fundamentally, trying to re assert the old consensus. If I had a magic wand I could wave I think I would actually just take control of social media away from anyone. There are probably improvements you could make to how it works sure but my biggest worry is more about what happens if and when people start trying to control it more. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jul 23, 2021 |
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Jul 23, 2021 00:17
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So the woman who's been like a grandmother to me all my life, a passionate Bernie supporter and lifelong environmentalist, posted these two things right after each other.  Her husband and my mom are much the same. Very open to anti-racist and anti-colonial perspectives UNTIL. I think with a lot of people their evolution on certain issues only goes up to a certain point, at which they decided "I'm a good person, no need to self-examine any more."
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Jul 23, 2021 19:24
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the_sea_hag posted:So the woman who's been like a grandmother to me all my life, a passionate Bernie supporter and lifelong environmentalist, posted these two things right after each other. Tbf, a lot of libs trip at that hurdle. It's sad, but you have to kind of look at it as a glass half full thing.
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Jul 23, 2021 23:22
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Having read so many horror stories online about chuddy parents, I'm extremely lucky in that regard. My parents are liberal. The worst I can say is that my dad read J.D Vance's book Hillbilly Elegy, loved it, and is quite disappointed that Vance has, in his words, "given in to Trumpism". I've never had the heart to tell him that Vance was always a shithead. My aunt and uncle on my mother's side are a different story entirely, a triple threat of evangelical, chud, and anti-vaxxers that are causing a rift in the family. Something happened over the past couple of months (we're not sure exactly what) and they're selling their house and building a new one elsewhere to get away from their sons, who they view as "extreme left". My cousins are, at best, liberal and pro-vaccine. It's shocked my parents and my aunt that they've identified so strongly with a cult of personality surrounding a failed steak salesman that they're isolating themselves from their sons and grandchildren because they evidently think they're antifa supersoldiers or something. It's really sad. My family has always been more liberal than most of the rest of the family, and we knew that my aunt and uncle had some nutty beliefs. We didn't know it had gotten that bad. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jul 24, 2021 |
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Jul 24, 2021 19:39
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I look up to my parents quite a bit, and more so lately, because they're in their mid-70s and only getting sharper and more focused against the dying of the light of their ideals, it seems. We all got together in the house my brother and I grew up in a couple of weeks ago and spent a week out on the California coast, and I basically underwent a grilling by them to make sure I hadn't fallen prey to the Q poo poo. My dad's always been a little ambiguous and sort of prone to slightly off-tone takes on things like race, but he's also very deferential to other people's opinions and immediately willing to accept a point of view that seems better informed than his. And my mom is so dismayed by the downward spiral of civil society in the face of social media and magical thinking that she seems like she's becoming some kind of anarchist radical lmao I wonder if said house being in the northern CA valley where Jim Jones had his church before he went to Guyana has anything to do with their hypersensitivity to cult-like behavior 
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Jul 24, 2021 20:04
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I'm watching season 2 of "The Devil You Know" on Hulu and oof it sounds familiar. I wonder if my mom watches this person.
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Aug 13, 2021 01:47
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I had a brief layover at the airport by my parents last week and had enough time to have lunch with them in between my flights. They are both proudly unvaccinated, and it struck me today that very well could be the last time I see them with delta ripping through everywhere. 
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Aug 13, 2021 03:13
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Alctel posted:Interesting thread. It's not just Fox News because this poo poo is happening all over the world and not just in the US. For my parents a big part of falling down the rabbit hole was Evangelical media, not just social media but also niche traditional media in the form of Satellite TV. Something must have been getting pushed through because they were talking about how much they liked Trump and Putin even during the Obama years and that was before they got onto Facebook. For another friend their entry point was all the alt-health stuff they were immersed in as an alternative health practitioner. They were always critical of "modern medicine" without going full antivax. Then one day they just snapped and started reposting qanon garbage along with hard antivax propaganda. That was the first person I unfriended ever on facebook, shortly before quitting the platform. For one of my brothers it's been the conservative media sphere. Unlike most people who just repost conspiracist propaganda they're keen to argue about their beliefs on facebook in their own words - and people have been arguing with them. I gave up on facebook in 2020 but one of my other brothers is still on there and is worried that redpillbro is going to alienate himself from the rest of the family so whatever he's posting must be some hot dysfunctional garbage. Also  is something of a factor for these people. Though it's the distant past I can still remember a bit of what it's like so simply see Capitalism and Christianity as forces incapable of evil. People who have never questioned the status quo, especially if the system has kinda worked for them ok if they don't think too hard about it, are pretty much defenseless against the manipulative techniques being used against them.An upcoming obligated family function in a month or so is making me anxious AF because it's very likely that only conspiracy pushing members from my side of the family will be able to attend and my in-laws aren't likely to tolerate their bullshit. At present it can't go ahead due to restrictions on gatherings but we're in one of the most sheltered places on earth in terms of C-19 and the restrictions will probably be repealed. OTOH another lockdown interrupting this thing would be a mixed blessing.
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Aug 14, 2021 15:11
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The Sausages posted:For another friend their entry point was all the alt-health stuff they were immersed in as an alternative health practitioner. They were always critical of "modern medicine" without going full antivax. Then one day they just snapped and started reposting qanon garbage along with hard antivax propaganda. That was the first person I unfriended ever on facebook, shortly before quitting the platform. That's been a surprising trend, if in retrospect predictable: the wellness to conspiracist track. Start out being keen on organic food, wary of "toxins" and priding yourself as an independent thinker, it's a short jump to ranting about Big Pharma and 5G chips in your vaccine. I wonder if the radicalization of goons' parents is partly just an ageing thing. People get older, retire, get a bit lonely and with time on their hands, end up consuming a lot of media. I know the TV is basically on all the time at my parents house and so there's this constant background of puffed up stories, fear pieces and reciting talking points over and over again.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:44
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I noticed the same thing, but thankfully they still limit themselves to cnn and the broadcast networks, so consensus reality still exists for them. I think all the old people on vents in early stories on covid permanently scared them.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:09
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I'm so glad my parents are too cheap for cable.
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Aug 14, 2021 18:02
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teen witch posted:I feel like with the older generations (…ok, white upwardly mobile boomers. It’s them and maybe a smidge of Gen X) that they were the “end of history” and that they got the loving Yub Nub scene when the USSR crumbled and clearly things will only get better through inertia. No nuclear war to worry about, the ozone layer? We can make some satellite or something, income inequality? Uh, computers. Racism is gone with a mere speech and like one law. Whereas people born after Boomers really didn't have that mindset fed to them. There was that blip after WW2 where the future looked limitless. And when you grow up with that mindset, you think people pointing out actual problems are "rewriting history" or "looking for someone to blame."
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Aug 14, 2021 18:02
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every passing year i become increasingly thankful my parents have always been compassionate and analytical and never, ever had the breakthrough weakness point that seems to allow so many older people to fall permanently into sociopolitical derangement my mother in law, though, severely concerns me. she got in a traumatic car accident within months of losing my FIL to covid and she has become obsessively wrapped up in apocalyptic preachers. unless we drag her intentionally away from all devices, she is either watching them on youtube, playing apocalyptic ministry dvd's, or listening to them on earbuds. she has started to reach some of what i like to call "inflection points of ideological incoherence" which is just a poncy way of me saying i've observed that she is starting to adopt simultaneous views on things that are utterly incompatible with each other, and that's (to me) something you would put on a checklist of phases as you drift into complete media-inflicted delusion. it's the point at which you just become so susceptible to adopting zealous view reinforcement that your critical analysis of these views degrades to the point where you can hold incompatible views and just no longer have the ability to recognize the issue
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Aug 14, 2021 18:37
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Dementia plus right wing internet is not a good look for my FIL, who we live with. Blocking sites at the router doesn't help with YouTube.
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Aug 14, 2021 18:52
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nonathlon posted:I wonder if the radicalization of goons' parents is partly just an ageing thing. People get older, retire, get a bit lonely and with time on their hands, end up consuming a lot of media. I know the TV is basically on all the time at my parents house and so there's this constant background of puffed up stories, fear pieces and reciting talking points over and over again. There's this guy named John Rogers who's a writer and executive producer for TV ("Leverage," "The Librarians"). He used to regularly update his blog with his thoughts on American broadcast media from inside the system, and he coined a phrase at one point, "momcore," that's become a fixture of my media vocabulary. (Internally, anyway; I've never met anyone who knows the term unless I told them about it first.) John Rogers posted:My Mom, a super lovely lady, keeps recommending modern detective thrillers to me to read. Stuff she and her sixty-year-old friends read. So every now and then I'll pick one up -- and they are hosed up. In Jeffrey Deaver's The Bone Collector, turned into a movie with Denzel Washington and Angelina Jolie, a woman is tied to a sewer pipe and BOILED ALIVE... My mom is generally center-left and the guy she lives with is a cranky old Vietnam veteran who used to be pretty right-wing, but the Trump years seem to have shut him up some. Politically, their only common factor is that both of them routinely consume a media diet of spy thrillers, murder mysteries, and "copaganda," where somebody's getting murderfucked every week and all you can do is clean up afterward. It's discernibly made them both more paranoid than they have any right to be, to the point where my mom's SO insists on having a concealed firearm on him whenever he's out of the house. That's "momcore": Americans in the 60+ demographic are being fed paranoia in the form of entertainment. In retrospect, that probably fits more neatly into QAnon and other big-tent conspiracy theories than I'd previously considered. There's a big swath of American popular culture going back to the '90s that's primed that pump.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:44
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I suspect you may also find crossover with the terrible lifestyle magazines that are just wall to wall "my son sex murdered my daughter and ate her in our basement over three days but I still love him" type poo poo with the front covers showing people with beaten faces next to the inevitable grinning 30something model from the hair dye advert.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:55
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I mean my mom watches pretty much exclusively stuff where anti-hero cops gently caress up their lives while solving gruesome hosed up murders and is also the nicest anti-war (didn't like me going to the military) anti-gun person I know so I would not be concerned by that alone. Hell, Nordic Noir is basically that concept with a name. Also now that I think about it, I really don't watch much stuff with good people in it either. The Sausages posted:It's not just Fox News because this poo poo is happening all over the world and not just in the US. Nowhere to the same degree, though. U.S. media sphere & regular people's tolerance of this insane cat drugs poo poo are in their own categories when talking about the developed world. Nothing shows this better then the virus, EU went past U.S. in vaccinations despite the pathetic rollout of the former. All because anti-vaxxers are an actual plurality of society in the latter and a societally cool stance to hold to the degree of a third of population being them. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 20:07
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Wanderer posted:There's this guy named John Rogers who's a writer and executive producer for TV ("Leverage," "The Librarians"). He used to regularly update his blog with his thoughts on American broadcast media from inside the system, and he coined a phrase at one point, "momcore," that's become a fixture of my media vocabulary. (Internally, anyway; I've never met anyone who knows the term unless I told them about it first.) That's such a good observation. Like our recreational literature enforces this paranoid fearful view of the world. I had a girlfriend that was a fan of all those true crime podcasts, and they all paraded this idea that they were a public service, like you needed to know about all these horrors because somehow it made you better informed.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:03
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DarkCrawler posted:Also now that I think about it, I really don't watch much stuff with good people in it either. Neither do I. I've been consciously making a choice to steer away from my usual horror movies lately. I think there's a useful observation to be made here, though, in that the subtext of investigator-focused crime fiction is typically that this is just another day in the life for them. As twisted as this most recent murder might be, there'll be one on the same tier at some point next week. The rules of the genre require the setting to be so bleak, explicitly or implicitly, that it's just going to keep serving up new human catastrophes forever. The show I always think of here is "Castle," where its light and jokey tone is frequently undercut by whatever's happened to the murder victim of the week. There's an episode in the second season where a murdered woman's body is found half-naked, covered in caramel sauce, and bondage-cuffed to playground equipment in a park. That's hosed up, y'all. Conversely, in actual horror, even at its darkest, the point of the plot is that what's happening isn't normal and no one's trying to pretend that it is. In fact, more often than not, the situation is damaging, but is faced and at least temporarily resolved. The killer gets killed, the monster is slain, the curse is lifted. It doesn't always work out that neatly, but a lot of horror movies go out on a relative high note. That gives you the weird contradiction of modern genre fiction, where the crime shows are less explicit but more grim and gruesome than an average slasher movie. I suppose you could point at David Fincher's Seven as the point where the two Venn diagrams meet.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:15
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There’s also something to be said for the certainty that the crime will be solved by superhuman heroes who are up to the task. The shows create a pervasive threat of violence but also instill absolute confidence in the police. Of course they only arrest people who have already killed and never protect anyone.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:41
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:There’s also something to be said for the certainty that the crime will be solved by superhuman heroes who are up to the task. The shows create a pervasive threat of violence but also instill absolute confidence in the police. Of course they only arrest people who have already killed and never protect anyone. Really the biggest difference between Lovecraftian horror and a Final Fantasy game is whether the people facing horrors from beyond are mild-mannered New Englanders or heavily armed, wild-haired badasses with too many buckles.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:55
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Some of these shows being described are incredibly hosed up, like definitely beyond "normal evil" sorts of antagonists, and there's a few reasons I see it as being quite harmful: 1) As others have pointed out, it creates a culture of paranoia. 2) As others have pointed out, it instills the idea that the police are Good Guys and the legal system Gets Things Right! 3) It robs the victim of agency in the context of the work. Oh great, they got murdered by a sex maniac serial killer or whatever, welp, you're off-screen now, time for the cops to do their thing. 4) From the point of view of "what is useful about art?" it is less useful to us as viewers of the media because we don't see our struggles reflected in what the people in the work are going through. These antagonists are practically supervillains, they have do depth or redeeming qualities whatsoever, and as a result we can't relate with either the victims or the antagonists through any lens but "protagonists good, poo poo I sure hope that doesn't happen to me." It's a fundamentally lazy product. It does not ask the viewer to consider anything, the character development largely happens outside the context of the main plots of the stories where it exists at all. It's unsatisfying. I don't mind "dark" stories in general, but, c'mon, write a good antagonist. Write a morally ambiguous protagonist. Show victims that weren't horribly sexmurdered and actually contribute to the story in some way beyond being a literal object around which the plot revolves. EDIT: Killer robot posted:Really the biggest difference between Lovecraftian horror and a Final Fantasy game is whether the people facing horrors from beyond are mild-mannered New Englanders or heavily armed, wild-haired badasses with too many buckles. It's interesting that you bring this up, because I was actually thinking about this in the context of video games and specifically JRPGs. On one hand, you know the genre means there's a 99% chance the good guys win at the end and kill God. But even then, there's so much more nuance than you get from a lot of momcore (I like that term) type poo poo. There's actually -- god forbid -- character development, and parts of the Big Baddie that seem sympathetic or at least understandable at times. Occasionally you are asked to confront the morality of your actions, as opposed to some of these police shows basically being "was it right to rough the sexmonster up during interrogation? Yes, here's why!" PT6A fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 03:10
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Of course they only arrest people who have already killed and never protect anyone. You're forgetting about all the serial killers!
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Aug 15, 2021 17:24
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OwlFancier posted:I had a big post that I accidentally deleted but broadly I think that a lot of the problems you might observe and attribute to social media are actually things it is necessary to overcome, not things that can or should be put back in the box. The problem with complete information freedom is that it replaces the previous information hegemony, which manufactured a consensus by ensuring that what information was available was decided only by a handful of platform owners, and instead now we have a transitonal state where the much more laissez faire approach of the social media platforms is causing multiple consensuses to be established. Outstanding post. Giving a platform to liars is obviously going to have some bad results, but letting the tech giants decide what speech is acceptable is substantially worse.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:20
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81sidewinder posted:Outstanding post. Giving a platform to liars is obviously going to have some bad results, but letting the tech giants decide what speech is acceptable is substantially worse. Is part of the solution just the current generation aging out? I'm not trying to do some "the kids are alright" poo poo and I know there are people of all ages with brain worms, but I feel like kids who grew up with social media and probably experienced other kids at school making up poo poo about people firsthand gotta be a bit more skeptical about it right? Also people have accused me of splitting hairs with semantics here but tech giants by necessity kinda engage in censorship (or promotion) by deciding what autoplays and what surfaces on the first pages of our feeds. We could just return to the days where you only see a chronological list of content from people you've subscribed to (which is actually the only way I browse YouTube these days), but that doesn't really solve the problem of search engines which rank results. Maybe it's not a huge problem, I dunno.
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Aug 18, 2021 01:10
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As I said I think that generally growing up adapted to that environment helps somewhat, but I think also it will, or would, take time to reach an equilibrium whereby people find new social methods of dealing with the new level and variety of information we have access to. You essentially need new social habits for ratifying information with a peer group rather than just belieivng anything you see because it was published and all published information must be trustworthy otherwise "They" wouldn't publish it. And also some method of avoiding the particular form of social ratification that you see with Q weirdos who instead end up with more and more insane ideas. How much of that is due to a lot of old media already priming them with insane ideas because their worldview is fundamentally insane and based on lies, I don't know. But I do think that generally more extreme left views are more likely to stabilize back towards reality a bit. People might experiment with very outlandish left/radical lib positions on stuff so you end up with people saying that eating spaghetti is cultural appropriation or whatever, but I think those views are probably more the result of younger people trying to find a political footing and seeing how far they can take ideas rather than being likely to hit critical mass like the Q nutters. The reason I say "would" is that I expect that level of information to keep changing and also I am skeptical that it will remain quite as free as it currently is, because governments are going to want to crack down on it especially if it starts to threaten their stability as it already is doing (for good and bad reasons) OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Aug 18, 2021 |
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Aug 18, 2021 01:17
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