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Ferrinus posted:you have two problems here: i'm pretty sure that having all the resources is why the man has all the power. and that being lovely is how he got/keeps em. not contradictory at all to me i was talking about mass surveillance, you said "as for surveillance infrastructure itself, the working class also has access to mass communications and recording technology and there are more of us than them". i guess my response there is so what? are you saying that feeding into/being fed by this surveillance apparatus somehow counts as meaningful access to it? cause it's actually incredibly counterproductive Brain Candy posted:everything being fed into taps in no way implies centralization only a real dummy would call everything being harvested, stored, and analyzed in a central location centralization
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Jul 21, 2021 21:52
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pnac attack posted:a pretty sick system coated this whole rock in way more dudes than it can handle, acknowledging that doesn't make it my fault Ah so you wish to restore the natural order of things where the person with a will to power can thrive. Don't often see the Anarcho-fascist.
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Jul 21, 2021 21:54
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pnac attack posted:i'm pretty sure that having all the resources is why the man has all the power. and that being lovely is how he got/keeps em. not contradictory at all to me you were talking about mass's surveillance's ability to make propaganda more effective, and that the effectiveness of that propaganda was the chief barrier for the modern left. both are nonsense. i can quote you if you like. as a recon or coordination tool surveillance technology matches up very poorly to the structural advantages of the working class, because workers don't need mass surveillance infrastructure to record or send information and also vastly outnumber their opposition. if you're outnumbered 10 to 1 you can surveil all you like
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Jul 21, 2021 21:58
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pnac attack posted:only a real dummy would call everything being harvested, stored, and analyzed in a central location centralization yes only an absolute moron would see the word 'central' in a true statement then have the pudding brains to think that implies 'centralization', a different word with a different meaning, in a different context because the words start with the same letters it would take the kind of collosal idiot that would go head first into a dumpster and declare that politics
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Jul 21, 2021 22:00
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pnac attack posted:a pretty sick system coated this whole rock in way more dudes than it can handle, acknowledging that doesn't make it my fault lmao
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Jul 21, 2021 22:16
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Doing a eugenics, anarchistly
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Jul 21, 2021 22:17
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Sedisp posted:Ah so you wish to restore the natural order of things where the person with a will to power can thrive. idg how it's fascist to not want a bunch of ideology between me and the world i live in. if you'd ever harvested a meal it would make more sense. sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you Ferrinus posted:you were talking about mass's surveillance's ability to make propaganda more effective, and that the effectiveness of that propaganda was the chief barrier for the modern left. both are nonsense. i can quote you if you like. as a recon or coordination tool surveillance technology matches up very poorly to the structural advantages of the working class, because workers don't need mass surveillance infrastructure to record or send information and also vastly outnumber their opposition. if you're outnumbered 10 to 1 you can surveil all you like yeah that's what i said, it's not *just* propaganda though obv. everyone trying to organize on twitter or w/e is giving a lot of insight that they don't even have access to themselves about their structure, motives, etc and pretty much subverting anything they try to do right out the gate. feds get to see what works and what doesn't, snip a few tall poppies, spin up a more engaging/innocuous org, etc. i think our disagreement here is mostly about how powerful mass surveillance/cultural control can be. 10:1 is nothing, if you're outnumbered 1000:1 but able to manage your opposition almost perfectly you're still in a very powerful position Brain Candy posted:yes only an absolute moron would see the word 'central' in a true statement then have the pudding brains to think that implies 'centralization', a different word with a different meaning, in a different context because the words start with the same letters i'm exactly the kind of dummy who would think that centralizing something in a central location implied centralization. that's just the kind of colossal pudding-brained idiot i am
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Jul 21, 2021 22:22
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pnac attack posted:sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx8CJBr1nd0
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Jul 21, 2021 22:23
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Lib and let die posted:Doing a eugenics, anarchistly you're right. not being able to personally spoonfeed every last human being on the planet is exactly the same as hustling em into death camps
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Jul 21, 2021 22:24
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All the anarchists itt just seem to be libertarians who don't want to be called libertarians.
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Jul 21, 2021 22:25
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pnac attack posted:you're right. not being able to personally spoonfeed every last human being on the planet is exactly the same as hustling em into death camps Overpopulation is a white supremacist myth homedog
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Jul 21, 2021 22:26
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pnac would you say you consider yourself non-ideological
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Jul 21, 2021 22:26
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by involving anime you have successfully embarrassed me out of this conversation so congrats i guess
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Jul 21, 2021 22:26
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lmfao at this chest thumping galt's gulch garbage
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Jul 21, 2021 22:27
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pnac attack posted:you're right. not being able to personally spoonfeed every last human being on the planet is exactly the same as hustling em into death camps Ok, I'll play along. How do we determine where our efforts to reduce suffering in the interim go? Who among the masses is worth of salvation? We know the rich will survive in their gilded towers, so how do we determine what groups of underprivileged people are worthy of being saved from climate extinction?
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Jul 21, 2021 22:27
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you wouldn't last a week in your ideal world
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Jul 21, 2021 22:27
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pnac attack posted:yeah that's what i said, it's not *just* propaganda though obv. everyone trying to organize on twitter or w/e is giving a lot of insight that they don't even have access to themselves about their structure, motives, etc and pretty much subverting anything they try to do right out the gate. feds get to see what works and what doesn't, snip a few tall poppies, spin up a more engaging/innocuous org, etc. i think our disagreement here is mostly about how powerful mass surveillance/cultural control can be. 10:1 is nothing, if you're outnumbered 1000:1 but able to manage your opposition almost perfectly you're still in a very powerful position it's really not a big deal. the reason killing one leader can set an org into disarray or a stupid online take can waste days of everyone's time isn't that the fbi are unstoppable geniuses but that the working class has been depoliticized by deeper material factors, such as the distribution of imperial spoils and public resources along racial lines
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Jul 21, 2021 22:33
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I know pnac is just trolling, but I refuse to believe he's ever worked a hard days work in his life, let alone has actually ever harvested crops
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Jul 21, 2021 22:34
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KomradeX posted:I know pnac is just trolling, but I refuse to believe he's ever worked a hard days work in his life, let alone has actually ever harvested crops pnac trolling would explain 100% of why anarchism sounds like it's just a retread of senator armstrong's i have a dream speech
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Jul 21, 2021 22:35
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pnac attack posted:idg how it's fascist to not want a bunch of ideology between me and the world i live in. if you'd ever harvested a meal it would make more sense. sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you Uhh. Lot of Hitler's speeches reference the natural order of the strong over the weak. Something you are saying is a good thing.
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Jul 21, 2021 22:41
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Epic High Five posted:pnac would you say you consider yourself non-ideological any ideology beyond "always for love never from fear" is just blowing smoke Lib and let die posted:Ok, I'll play along. i put mine wherever i see the most and have no suggestions for how to organize that on a larger scale each and every one of them is worth it but "salvation" isn't something you can personally provide. this isn't the bible or a ya novel and you aren't jesus/harry potter my hope is that the rich *don't* survive because they've put "being evil" over "having skills" for generations and everyone hates them. and those of us at the bottom finally get a come-up with them out of the way and our grimy little peasant skillsets of building/fixing/harvesting things relevant again Buck Wildman posted:you wouldn't last a week in your ideal world you don't know me, computer toucher
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Jul 21, 2021 22:42
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ok Conan
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Jul 21, 2021 22:43
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pnac attack posted:any ideology beyond "always for love never from fear" is just blowing smoke You hope the rich don't survive the climate apocalypse? You know that doctor evil motherfucker just took off in a literal cock and balls into space in his personal bid to keep his lineage safe from climate apocalypse, right? "hope" they don't survive, some obama lib bullshit lmao
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Jul 21, 2021 22:44
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pnac attack posted:a pretty sick system coated this whole rock in way more dudes than it can handle, acknowledging that doesn't make it my fault this is why liberals, libertarians, and anarchists, are all just the same thing
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Jul 21, 2021 22:48
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"always for love never from fear" the anarchist "winter is coming, death to the weak" also the anarchist
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Jul 21, 2021 22:50
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pnac attack posted:my hope is that the rich *don't* survive because they've put "being evil" over "having skills" Do you think he had to land the spaceship by himself
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Jul 21, 2021 22:54
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KomradeX posted:I know pnac is just trolling, but I refuse to believe he's ever worked a hard days work in his life, let alone has actually ever harvested crops i used to work all the time before i heard the good news about corporate identity theft Ferrinus posted:it's really not a big deal. the reason killing one leader can set an org into disarray or a stupid online take can waste days of everyone's time isn't that the fbi are unstoppable geniuses but that the working class has been depoliticized by deeper material factors, such as the distribution of imperial spoils and public resources along racial lines i would check out some more of mr. snowden's slideshow/the alphabet org's histories before i said mass surveillance wasn't a big deal. keeping everyone split like that is part of the same game, the surveillance is like.. uh.. being able to see all the cards Lib and let die posted:You hope the rich don't survive the climate apocalypse? dr evil was in a movie and guess who makes movies? that's right, the rich. irl they're gonna stockpile a bunch of cool poo poo in a compound they can't actually run and come out begging for help once their preserved food is gone or the inverter shits out. if a mob of their former victims hasn't dealt with them by then. sorry i don't have flyers up for lynching bezos yet, felt a little premature
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Jul 21, 2021 22:58
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Ferrinus posted:it's really not a big deal. the reason killing one leader can set an org into disarray or a stupid online take can waste days of everyone's time isn't that the fbi are unstoppable geniuses but that the working class has been depoliticized by deeper material factors, such as the distribution of imperial spoils and public resources along racial lines Is the fact that simply the words 'communism' or even 'socialism' have been ingrained in (at least, American) society as big bad boogeymen a problem? I can't help but feel that the literal entire media spoonfeeding anti-communist mindrays into everyone's brainpan is a huge issue towards developing class consciousness.
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Jul 21, 2021 22:59
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pnac attack posted:irl they're gonna stockpile a bunch of cool poo poo in a compound they can't actually run and come out begging for help once their preserved food is gone or the inverter shits out. if a mob of their former victims hasn't dealt with them by then. 
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Jul 21, 2021 23:00
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Hatebag posted:Neoliberalism undercuts the whole premise of labor aristocracy though because the benefits of profiting off of the exploited labor of the third world are eroded. They're not passing the slavings onto the first world proletariat any more lmao
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Jul 21, 2021 23:05
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pnac attack posted:i would check out some more of mr. snowden's slideshow/the alphabet org's histories before i said mass surveillance wasn't a big deal. keeping everyone split like that is part of the same game, the surveillance is like.. uh.. being able to see all the cards if twitter and email were key or even significant multipliers of the cia's function then they wouldn't have been able to function as they did for the back half of the 20th century. in fact it's as likely as not that online communications, as heavily surveilled as they are, make it easier to discover and see through state department plots. you're mistaking the cart for the horse... because of your idealism Kaedric posted:Is the fact that simply the words 'communism' or even 'socialism' have been ingrained in (at least, American) society as big bad boogeymen a problem? I can't help but feel that the literal entire media spoonfeeding anti-communist mindrays into everyone's brainpan is a huge issue towards developing class consciousness. yeah but the ideological state apparatus isn't stronger than, and doesn't precede, either the repressive state apparatus or the actual strictures of the prevailing mode of production. the reason permeating people in anticommunism works is that everyone occupies social and economic universes completely bereft of solidarity or collective decision-making. there's still tons of christian propaganda too and yet faith is declining for some reason
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Jul 21, 2021 23:08
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pnac attack posted:i would check out some more of mr. snowden's slideshow/the alphabet org's histories before i said mass surveillance wasn't a big deal. keeping everyone split like that is part of the same game, the surveillance is like.. uh.. being able to see all the cards "drat how are we going to kill this Marxist group off without the internet?! Ah well it's impossible." And that's why General Secretary of the Democratic Peoples Republic of America, Fred Hampton died peacefully in his sleep surrounded by friends and relatives.
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Jul 21, 2021 23:16
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pnac attack posted:i'm exactly the kind of dummy who would think that centralizing something in a central location implied centralization. that's just the kind of colossal pudding-brained idiot i am yes exactly, you think the internet archive existing implies the internet is centralized or that the library of congress existing means that libraries are centralized. your brain operates on a vague sense of linguistic association instead of what is known to humans as thinking
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Jul 21, 2021 23:16
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where is the central location of the internet? you loving oaf, you moron?
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Jul 21, 2021 23:17
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Brain Candy posted:where is the central location of the internet? you loving oaf, you moron? it's in utah
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Jul 21, 2021 23:19
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Sedisp posted:"drat how are we going to kill this Marxist group off without the internet?! Ah well it's impossible." yeah but now he kills himself before anyone knows his name
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Jul 21, 2021 23:21
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"kills himself"
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Jul 21, 2021 23:22
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pnac attack posted:yeah but now he kills himself before anyone knows his name Lol no. There's no need because the US has had it's class consciousness completely ripped out well before two computers ever started talking to one another.
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Jul 21, 2021 23:23
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jfc if tomorrow utah was erased by a small meteor we would still get to see your stupid posts. same as if the library of congress was burned; other people would still be able to read books at their local library an archive, a copy, of a thing is not the thing
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Jul 21, 2021 23:26
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Brain Candy posted:jfc ok, i get that. but being able to yoink all traffic is pretty much the same as being at the center. they aren't just there, they're in all the big hubs you know? if you're using the regular internet it's going into this hole in utah that the man uses to creep on us so he can control us better. with dank memes and engaging influencers. capturing the best of what we are and turning it against us. hosed up
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Jul 21, 2021 23:43
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