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Elukka posted:What's fun about dwarves? I want to be sold on them because I kinda wanna play them, but being slow and armored doesn't seem that appealing and at least early game they didn't feel very exciting. They are tanky and sturdy and have a lot of really good ranged options, from skirmishers to artillery. If you like shooty armies they are very good and fun. Their infantry mostly just exist to be really good meatshields so the ranged stuff can obliterate everything. With that said, there are better ranged armies out there too
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Jul 22, 2021 08:13
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If you aren't fighting 2 or more stacks of greenskins/skaven with your 16 unit stack of dwarfs, running out of ammo and freaking out before reforming as the entire army that just broke turns back on you, then sitting in a glorious ring of impenetrable steel for ten minutes you're loving it up.
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Jul 22, 2021 09:20
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Dwarves are skaven for people who hate micro. Tar pit your enemies and have your weapons teams and artillery nuke them. Also the gyrocopters are fun now.
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Jul 22, 2021 09:47
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Forget small and cute, give Slaanesh a unit of himbo warriors that slay their enemies with JoJo poses.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:51
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Forget small and cute, give Slaanesh a unit of himbo warriors that slay their enemies with JoJo poses. I think these basically do exist now so we may get them
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Jul 22, 2021 11:53
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They've done a lot of work with Slaneesh recently. He/she used to be the most generic and least defined chaos god out there where the most defining visual trait of the army used to be demons with "crab claws" (???) But now they're basically turning Slaanesh into the most flamboyant and fancy chaos army where the demons all wear elaborate outfits and jewels instead of being adorned with gory skulls and heavy metal (Khorne), poo and pus (Nurgle) or tomes and extra limbs (Tzeentch). It's much improved: 
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Jul 22, 2021 12:19
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So the Ginyu Force is Slaanesh
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Jul 22, 2021 12:32
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Elukka posted:What's fun about dwarves? I want to be sold on them because I kinda wanna play them, but being slow and armored doesn't seem that appealing and at least early game they didn't feel very exciting. they're hammer and anvil except the hammer is also behind the anvil, shooting a bunch the downside is they're always hammer and anvil
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Jul 22, 2021 13:17
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Dwarf infantry kill fine tbh they'll just never chase anything down to put on the rest of the damage. They'll stand and fight another unit all day tho so you've got time for slow maneuvering and getting guns into a flank or if you're a baller, slayers.
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Jul 22, 2021 13:18
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:So the Ginyu Force is Slaanesh Well Recoome and Guldo are Khorne and Nurgle but yeah for the rest of them.
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Jul 22, 2021 13:39
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The most fun I ever had with Dwarves was when I put rifles on the Ironbreakers and just had armies of 10 of them, 4 cannons, 4 organ guns, general and a runesmith. The cannons kill the big things before they get to your line and everything else kills anything else that gets in range. It'd probably work just fine with thunderers 90% of the time but every so often something will make it through and wreck your line.
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Jul 22, 2021 13:42
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Dwarves are fun in Closer to Tabletop cause they have a bit less armour and basic shooting but are killer in melee and their heroes and Lords are very strong Plus they are a fun and fluffy match up vs elves since elves are squishier but have better base stats so the tricky bastards can out fight your dwarf lines if you aren't careful and you both have small numbers
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Jul 22, 2021 14:19
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Zzulu posted:They've done a lot of work with Slaneesh recently. He/she used to be the most generic and least defined chaos god out there where the most defining visual trait of the army used to be demons with "crab claws" (???) It seems to me in Warhammer Fantasy novels Slaneesh and Tzeentch are the two most popular Chaos gods to use as villains or for cults. I don't think I've seen a singl Khorne cult in any of the books, and there were only 2 Nurgle worshippers, one in a short story, one in one of the Witch Hunter books.
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Jul 22, 2021 14:43
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Forget small and cute, give Slaanesh a unit of himbo warriors that slay their enemies with JoJo poses. So, Sigvald?
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Jul 22, 2021 14:43
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:It seems to me in Warhammer Fantasy novels Slaneesh and Tzeentch are the two most popular Chaos gods to use as villains or for cults. I don't think I've seen a singl Khorne cult in any of the books, and there were only 2 Nurgle worshippers, one in a short story, one in one of the Witch Hunter books. Khorne cults were big in 40k for a while. They played up the "Warrior culture" stuff and had disciplined chaos imperial guard companies worshipping him. I don't recall ever seeing them in fantasy though, it's all Norska screaming about khorne.
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Jul 22, 2021 14:49
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:It seems to me in Warhammer Fantasy novels Slaneesh and Tzeentch are the two most popular Chaos gods to use as villains or for cults. I don't think I've seen a singl Khorne cult in any of the books, and there were only 2 Nurgle worshippers, one in a short story, one in one of the Witch Hunter books. That may be because they're the easiest cults to build a mystery around. A Nurgle cult is going to have every member weeping pus with flies buzzing around them, and I don't think Khorne even uses traditional cults: he's worshipped through combat. It's been a while since I read any 40k books, but it's similar. I recall Ciaphas Cain fights Chaos a few times, but the only time they're major villains, they're Slaneesh or Undivided.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:04
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I remember one of the rpg books writing about a khorne cult based around a knight order that was stationed in the city where Archeon's forces were driven back from during the storm of chaos campaign. They stayed loyal to the Empire because they looked at how incompetent the siege was going from the chaos side and wanted no part of it.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:08
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Hunt11 posted:I remember one of the rpg books writing about a khorne cult based around a knight order that was stationed in the city where Archeon's forces were driven back from during the storm of chaos campaign. They stayed loyal to the Empire because they looked at how incompetent the siege was going from the chaos side and wanted no part of it. Yep, the Crimson Skulls. They're the villains of one of the big RPG campaigns, and it's not very good because it turns out Khorne cultists usually don't make very good subtle agents and a bunch of vaguely tangentially related murderers can't sustain a long term story. Only the guys in Middenheim really work out as a cult. They also kinda figured: If we fight him and lose, well, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows. If we fight him and win, we're heroes of the Empire and well situated to spread Khorne worship and corrupt anti-Sigmarite Ulricans. It was a good scheme.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:18
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Night10194 posted:Yep, the Crimson Skulls. They're the villains of one of the big RPG campaigns, and it's not very good because it turns out Khorne cultists usually don't make very good subtle agents and a bunch of vaguely tangentially related murderers can't sustain a long term story. Only the guys in Middenheim really work out as a cult. They also kinda figured: If we fight him and lose, well, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows. If we fight him and win, we're heroes of the Empire and well situated to spread Khorne worship and corrupt anti-Sigmarite Ulricans. It was a good scheme. That's actually a really fun variation on a Khorne cult.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:19
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What the gently caress
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Jul 22, 2021 15:42
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smug jeebus posted:What the gently caress What you can't see are the ghosts holding them up.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:45
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Elukka posted:What's fun about dwarves? I want to be sold on them because I kinda wanna play them, but being slow and armored doesn't seem that appealing and at least early game they didn't feel very exciting. If you do not like gunlines and artillery then you might not enjoy them, but I think they're a blast if you use 'em right.
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Jul 22, 2021 15:46
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smug jeebus posted:What the gently caress I don't know how to feel about this new Elden Ring UI
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Jul 22, 2021 16:58
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Is Closer to Tabletop still getting updates? That one was a fun 3rd place overhaul mod after Lucky's mod and Grimhammer. I liked the way artillery worked in that mod where it was absolutely devastating with a random chance the artillery would break down.
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Jul 22, 2021 17:12
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Its called Boyz will be Boyz now, but yeah
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Jul 22, 2021 17:29
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Man, the skaven plague is absolutely awful to deal with as Dwarfs.
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Jul 22, 2021 17:48
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smug jeebus posted:What the gently caress casylvania 
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Jul 22, 2021 17:51
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Arcsquad12 posted:Is Closer to Tabletop still getting updates? That one was a fun 3rd place overhaul mod after Lucky's mod and Grimhammer. I liked the way artillery worked in that mod where it was absolutely devastating with a random chance the artillery would break down. yeah it gets updated nearly instantly every DLC i miss luckys mod the most but its now my default overhaul
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Jul 22, 2021 18:05
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Funky See Funky Do posted:The most fun I ever had with Dwarves was when I put rifles on the Ironbreakers and just had armies of 10 of them, 4 cannons, 4 organ guns, general and a runesmith. The cannons kill the big things before they get to your line and everything else kills anything else that gets in range. It'd probably work just fine with thunderers 90% of the time but every so often something will make it through and wreck your line. The dawi thunder mod gives you elite thunderers who are basically longbeards with rifles. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Dawi are fun because as Arghy's stream of consciousness reply to you sorta says is that their ranged units are really good. They're a fun faction if you like finding a way to kill your opponent while only have 3 melee units in your entire army. Despite what Arghy says, their lords and heroes are fine if you use them right, and can be amazeballs if you kit them out with items you use their semi-unique mechanic to craft items that you want them to have. For example you can give Thanes (melee hero) and lords Perfect Vigour and Regeneration, so you can stick 'em up on a wall then laugh all the way to the bank. Downsides is slow growth, no cav, and no magic other than Rune magic (which just got buffed). I play mostly dawi with a ton of mods to beef them up, thanes with a ton of items will lose most fights. They're literally meant to be tanky not killy which is dumb as hell and the fact that they don't get mount options means fully leveled up they'll often lose against comparable heroes.
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Jul 22, 2021 18:20
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MonsterEnvy posted:Heralds of Tzeentch are the same size as a human or bigger. They are teeny tiny and adorable. smug jeebus posted:What the gently caress The vampires are mortals squatting in dark elf ruins and aping the druchii (compare Manfred’s outfit with Lokhir’s for example), just like Brettonnians are mortals squatting in asur ruins and imitating the high elves.
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Jul 22, 2021 18:20
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smug jeebus posted:What the gently caress Lots of bugs coming out of the last patch. As far as the dwarf conversation, I find them fun (probably my most-played faction) because they don’t really have a doomstack army comp. you should have a few artillery pieces (to get a defending army to advance/for towers in sieges/etc), but beyond that, army comp is pretty flexible. Melee infantry in WH has always sucked, but beyond that, lots of potential army comps are viable. My default stack is a few single entities (to tank in melee), a few miners with blasting charges to back up the lord/heroes, and then a bunch of quarrelers in a checkerboard formation, because they can definitely hold a line in melee when necessary. You don’t need a lot of melee-only because the missile infantry does just fine in melee. I’ll mess around with various comps once my economy can support it. 3 single entities and 17 organ guns? Why not
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Jul 22, 2021 18:33
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wiegieman posted:What you can't see are the ghosts holding them up. Cursing the ghosts of your enemies to hold up your ridiculous architecture for eternity is very vampire counts.
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Jul 22, 2021 18:53
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Arghy posted:I play mostly dawi with a ton of mods to beef them up, thanes with a ton of items will lose most fights. They're literally meant to be tanky not killy which is dumb as hell and the fact that they don't get mount options means fully leveled up they'll often lose against comparable heroes. I don't get why the dwarf melee hero being tanky is dumb. My best thane in my Thorek game has 3500 hp, 200 armor, perfect vigor, 105 MD, 80 MA (plus frenzy and 10+ points of both anti-large and anti-infantry), and over 600 damage (roughly 300 each non-AP and AP). He could have even higher stats, but I've got a potion of healing in there because slaughtering enemies is thirsty work and a few of them occasionally get hits in. I don't think I'd give him a mount if I could, because then he'd block gunfire, and most of the point of the thane is to tie up enemy heroes, lords, and monsters while the gunline puts them down. I don't think he could duel Grimgor or Tyrion or whatever, but I also don't think some random Empire captain is going to have much success just because they might get in a knockdown once.
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Jul 22, 2021 19:27
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litany of gulps posted:I don't get why the dwarf melee hero being tanky is dumb. My best thane in my Thorek game has 3500 hp, 200 armor, perfect vigor, 105 MD, 80 MA (plus frenzy and 10+ points of both anti-large and anti-infantry), and over 600 damage (roughly 300 each non-AP and AP). He could have even higher stats, but I've got a potion of healing in there because slaughtering enemies is thirsty work and a few of them occasionally get hits in. That's literally going to be a single hero with all of that, on average thanes will lose to most melee hero units. The problem is you only get 3 goddamn hero units and the other 2 aren't gonna pick up the slack so you need to heavily rely on your thanes. Compared to literally every other race you can eventually put heroes on mounts that increase their lethality and help your lords punch above their weight. Grimgor for example will loving murder your lords in early/mid game so you think, oh i'll get a thane to help! Nope your thane sucks rear end and now you just lost both of them. Dawi desperately need more heroes, mods help but there's people suffering through without mods. Thanes need oathstones that basically make them unbreakable and beef them up but they can't move fast when it's popped. The vanilla lords need to have pistol and great weapon variants. They need ranger heroes/lords with multiple weapon variants or an option to choose. Basically gently caress elves because they get all of the above.
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Jul 22, 2021 19:40
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There has to be a third DLC for the Dwarfs coming in TWW3 right? It feels like a no brainer.
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Jul 22, 2021 20:20
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Arghy posted:That's literally going to be a single hero with all of that, on average thanes will lose to most melee hero units. The problem is you only get 3 goddamn hero units and the other 2 aren't gonna pick up the slack so you need to heavily rely on your thanes. Compared to literally every other race you can eventually put heroes on mounts that increase their lethality and help your lords punch above their weight. Grimgor for example will loving murder your lords in early/mid game so you think, oh i'll get a thane to help! Nope your thane sucks rear end and now you just lost both of them. Also most factions in game 2 JUST got to 4 hero types within the past few DLC so its not like Dwarfs only having three hero types is this big deal that is worth bringing up as a big deal. I would like to add that the new Rune magic will help a Thane a lot if they work together. All the game 1 factions still only have 3 hero units, if that. No one is going to be successfully throwing a Skinwolf Werekin, Wight King, or Paladin against Grimgor successfully any time soon, either. I agree with you that mounts can drastically improve other faction's hero's ability to kill but that does not take away from the fact that a Thane can turn into one of the most stubborn tarpits in the game (without mods affecting either side). So yeah, they cant kill as well but that doesnt make them bad, it just means they have a role; they have limitations, and thats okay. Lucinice posted:There has to be a third DLC for the Dwarfs coming in TWW3 right? It feels like a no brainer.
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Jul 22, 2021 20:39
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I think all the game 1 factions will get DLC in game 3, 100%. VCounts are now top 3 in needing a tweaking (along with Norsca and WoC, which we both know will get some love with game 3) and VCounts also have content to be added with the parts of the world map that we are getting. Dwarfs have Chaos Dwarfs to either hate or stubbornly ignore so if the Dwarfs dont get some content from that, I wont know what to say. I wonder if Norsca is going to get a DLC or a Dawrf update level tweak. It doesn't feel like they need a full DLC but people keep asking for them to add a new LL so who knows. I could totally see a Kislev vs WoC being the first DLC though.
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Jul 22, 2021 20:43
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Arghy posted:That's literally going to be a single hero with all of that, on average thanes will lose to most melee hero units. The problem is you only get 3 goddamn hero units and the other 2 aren't gonna pick up the slack so you need to heavily rely on your thanes. Compared to literally every other race you can eventually put heroes on mounts that increase their lethality and help your lords punch above their weight. Grimgor for example will loving murder your lords in early/mid game so you think, oh i'll get a thane to help! Nope your thane sucks rear end and now you just lost both of them. You can outfit a LOT of characters with runes and runeforge equipment once you get into the mid-game. Your average dwarf hero is going to be running around with a full set of gear when most other races will have 1 or 2 pieces on their heroes, if that. And yeah, Grimgor hits hard. If you think the appropriate counter is a great weapon lord, why don't you use... the great weapon lord, Grombrindal? Edit: Or the OTHER great weapon lord, Ungrim? Dwarves can struggle early game - I think everyone would agree there - but it isn't because their lords, heroes, or units aren't strong enough. They have slow growth and their main competitors have the snowballing confederation trait. That's it. Giving every faction every thing isn't going to make the game better or more fun. Citing elves as an example of how dwarves have been screwed over or whatever is silly. Elves and humans are the factions whose "thing" is having everything available. Humans are balanced by being lovely at everything, while elves are balanced by being geographically isolated and cursed to fight nothing but other elves for 200 turns. litany of gulps fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 20:47
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I think all the game 1 factions will get DLC in game 3, 100%. VCounts are now top 3 in needing a tweaking (along with Norsca and WoC, which we both know will get some love with game 3) and VCounts also have content to be added with the parts of the world map that we are getting. Dwarfs have Chaos Dwarfs to either hate or stubbornly ignore so if the Dwarfs dont get some content from that, I wont know what to say. Eh, we'll see. Three is coming in with seven new factions including the preorder, and then probably a couple more new armies after that as the first few DLCs. I'm not sure if content for the game one factions is really going to be a high priority comparatively
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Jul 22, 2021 20:54
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Lucinice posted:I wonder if Norsca is going to get a DLC or a Dawrf update level tweak. It doesn't feel like they need a full DLC but people keep asking for them to add a new LL so who knows. I could totally see a Kislev vs WoC being the first DLC though.  . I bet WoC get some stuff for free going into game 3 since they are so derelict right now but its hard to say.Lord Cyrahzax posted:Eh, we'll see. Three is coming in with seven new factions including the preorder, and then probably a couple more new armies after that as the first few DLCs. I'm not sure if content for the game one factions is really going to be a high priority comparatively
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Jul 22, 2021 21:01
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