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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Maybe in the way that he deluded himself so deeply to avoid having to reckon with it all, sure. Is that any better though? i think a large part of that is because, and i say this knowing it's better-suited for the other thread, that the present-day cast is mediocre-to-lousy compared to the old-world cast (and that includes aloy herself) like there is no one in sci-fi cavemanland with half the depth or pathos as sobeck and the alpha team or half as reprehensible as faro. sylens is the only one who comes close and he's mostly your standard-issue vaguely menacing enigmatic man
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Jul 23, 2021 17:15
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Yeah, there is just no way for the present-day plot to be as intriguing as the question of what happened to the world. Maybe in the next game, now that that question's been answered.
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Jul 23, 2021 17:19
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haveblue posted:Yeah, there is just no way for the present-day plot to be as intriguing as the question of what happened to the world. Maybe in the next game, now that that question's been answered. A question was answered. There is still the question of where the signal that made the subroutines rebel came from.
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Jul 23, 2021 17:23
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:A question was answered. There is still the question of where the signal that made the subroutines rebel came from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQI3zkcxKoE
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Jul 23, 2021 17:25
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If you're suggesting they attained self awareness on their own, Gaia explicitly says that an external signal was sent that caused it to happen. The game mentions cryogenics, and the law of Chekovs Gun says that it has to be relevant. Who says Faro is dead?
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Jul 23, 2021 17:29
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I like the contrast between Ted and Gaia, because Gaia not only accepted her mistakes, she agreed that she was possibly going to screw up making an ecosystem from scratch and needed something to balance her out and factory reset the world if she hit a dead end. She basically was like "Yeah, cool, build Hades, he seems necessary in case I gently caress up. Which I will, because building an ecosystem is HARD." Also the programmer for Hades was amazing, an anarchist lunatic who you expect will be a villain at first, but is actually really supportive of the project and just has fairly base interests like "SAVE THE PORN! Future generations will want something to wank to when they show up." He's an idiot, but a professional one who was an asset to the team despite his personality clashing with the rest. Regarding that second person, TBH if you've helped to save the world, you've earned a wank. He's probably one of my favourite characters, he owns. BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 17:42 on Jul 23, 2021 |
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Jul 23, 2021 17:39
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the Horizon logs provided a really good cross-section of how very smart people would react to being told the world is going to end before the next MCU movie comes out special mention to the aeronautics engineer convinced the project is to escape to space (understandable, given his profession) and spends most of his interviews in a screaming meltdown trying to convince the interviewers that Space Travel Does Not Work That Way
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Jul 23, 2021 17:46
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Anprims, famous for being billionaires suddenly rationalising their part in destroying all knowledge of the past, and their part in the apocalypse, with vague mentions of it being better while coming apart mentally. Musk says he wants to help the environment with his electric car, so he's an environmentalist. He made some money and mined some lithium, but it's in the holologs 
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Jul 23, 2021 17:48
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Oxxidation posted:sylens is the only one who comes close and he's mostly your standard-issue vaguely menacing enigmatic man He's Lance Reddick, right? You could just say he's your standard issue Lance Reddick And yeah kinda stoked about the Olympic opening ceremony music, it's idiotic that they couldn't hold their wad for another year but on the bright side it's great to see Keiki Kobayashi (the Ace Combat composer) get some exposure outside vidya james
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Jul 23, 2021 17:51
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One of my favorite parts of HZD is when you get to that one old base with the last squad of soldiers holding out against the robots. There are dead robots and mechs and power armor around and as the player finds the log you start to think it was a heroic last stand. Reading the log, you learn that they were all very aware they are going to die, that they will not do a single thing to stop the robots that matters, nothing outside is still alive, and that their job now is literally to be a meatshield because it will take a couple seconds for the robots to turn them into paste and those seconds are critical.
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Jul 23, 2021 19:22
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Douche Wolf 89 posted:Anprims, famous for being billionaires suddenly rationalising their part in destroying all knowledge of the past, and their part in the apocalypse, with vague mentions of it being better while coming apart mentally. "If the world is starting from scratch, we have to make sure the new humanity doesn't have any of our knowledge or access to technology. Those things are poison that will only destroy them in the long run" - not a position anprims would take, apparently
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Jul 23, 2021 19:31
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RBA Starblade posted:One of my favorite parts of HZD is when you get to that one old base with the last squad of soldiers holding out against the robots. There are dead robots and mechs and power armor around and as the player finds the log you start to think it was a heroic last stand. Reading the log, you learn that they were all very aware they are going to die, that they will not do a single thing to stop the robots that matters, nothing outside is still alive, and that their job now is literally to be a meatshield because it will take a couple seconds for the robots to turn them into paste and those seconds are critical. Yeah that was great. The sardonic and bitter laughter when one of them is like "you guys ready to win the robot war?" was so striking and real. The "oh God there it is. 30 seconds to contact!", I could imagine watching the Titan barreling towards them, furrowing the ground like water. Absolutely excellent. Kit Walker posted:"'If the world is starting from scratch, we have to make sure the new humanity doesn't have any of our knowledge or access to technology. Those things are poison that will only destroy them in the long run'. Yeah, that sounds good, let's go with that. Now to retreat to my techno-pyramid full of holographic sex bots".- not an anprim Ftfy Sandwich Anarchist has a new favorite as of 19:35 on Jul 23, 2021 |
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Jul 23, 2021 19:32
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Yeah that was great. The sardonic and bitter laughter when one of them is like "you guys ready to win the robot war?" was so striking and real. The "oh God there it is. 30 seconds to contact!", I could imagine watching the Titan barreling towards them, furrowing the ground like water. Absolutely excellent. So much of the logs is truly evocative. Like when they were talking about how the air is rapidly becoming unsuitable for life, how every single plan and perhaps even the water is getting gobbled up by the machines. How eventually when the last humans are dead and the machines have nothing else to do or consume the world will just be a dead, barren rock for hundreds of years until Gaia can finally brute force crack their programming and turn everything off e: let he who would not retreat into his sex bunker in the face of total world annihilation cast the first stone Kit Walker has a new favorite as of 19:40 on Jul 23, 2021 |
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Jul 23, 2021 19:37
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And just think, what if they had revealed the problem early when they first discovered it instead of trying to keep it quiet and find an internal solution to save face? It's very likely that the swarm could have been stopped before I got out of control, but here we are. gently caress Ted Faro
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Jul 23, 2021 19:42
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Ted Faro's the kind of guy that'd set your house on fire rather than try and fix a clogged toilet and yet we're still going back and forth on if he had noble intentions or not. gently caress Ted Faro
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Jul 23, 2021 19:47
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:And just think, what if they had revealed the problem early when they first discovered it instead of trying to keep it quiet and find an internal solution to save face? Best HZD log is one recorded when the Faro Plague was growing but before everything became completely apocalyptic, detailing how the Faro robots just mulched through an entire pod of endangered dolphins during their refueling cycle and how Faro's company has been working to suppress the video taken by a local fisherman. I don't think anyone could have done anything about it once the swarm broke its protocol and went full Grey Goo on the whole planet. Ted hosed up real bad and there was no fixing it.
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Jul 23, 2021 19:55
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Best HZD log is one recorded when the Faro Plague was growing but before everything became completely apocalyptic, detailing how the Faro robots just mulched through an entire pod of endangered dolphins during their refueling cycle and how Faro's company has been working to suppress the video taken by a local fisherman. It was only one group that went rogue at first, not a world wide thing. It eventually overtook all the others and replicated into the apocalyptic threat. I think they really did have a shot at stopping if they had been forward with it early.
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Jul 23, 2021 19:58
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I feel pretty dumb for not picking up on the Egyptian mythology references in HZD. Faro, Sobek, pyramid etc.
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Jul 23, 2021 20:09
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Bogmonster posted:I feel pretty dumb for not picking up on the Egyptian mythology references in HZD. Faro, Sobek, pyramid etc. Chariot, Horus, Khopesh, Carja sun worship
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Jul 23, 2021 20:09
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There is one bit in the main plot that I cannot take seriously, and that's Aloy's face in the flashbacks to the cult leader being all "Turn your face to the sun, Child..." - that scowl just looks like a gary's mod face. It's so funny.
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Jul 23, 2021 20:12
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BioEnchanted posted:There is one bit in the main plot that I cannot take seriously, and that's Aloy's face in the flashbacks to the cult leader being all "Turn your face to the sun, Child..." - that scowl just looks like a gary's mod face. It's so funny. I've said it before but I'll always appreciate that opening bit too where it starts off like some YA bullshit with getting accepted by the tribe, then some guys attack with arrows and you're so cool and good you beat them too. Then a guy walks out with a minigun. HZD's pretty good I should replay it at some point here
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Jul 23, 2021 20:14
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RBA Starblade posted:I've said it before but I'll always appreciate that opening bit too where it starts off like some YA bullshit with getting accepted by the tribe, then some guys attack with arrows and you're so cool and good you beat them too. I love when the tribe tries to accept her towards the end, trying to revere her as a prophet and Aloy's just like "gently caress off, you are a garbage tribe and you do not deserve for me to allow that. I'm going to go help the tribes who actually DO something, you can stop being pathetic and come if you want but you're probably too cowardly". I also like Sona kind of meeting Aloy halfway, going to the capital to help protect it, but being all "I'm here and I'm helping because you were right that there are good people who need help, but I'm not happy about being outside the embrace and I will be returning as soon as this poo poo is over, mmkay?"
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Jul 23, 2021 20:20
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BioEnchanted posted:I love when the tribe tries to accept her towards the end, trying to revere her as a prophet and Aloy's just like "gently caress off, you are a garbage tribe and you do not deserve for me to allow that. I'm going to go help the tribes who actually DO something, you can stop being pathetic and come if you want but you're probably too cowardly". I also like Sona kind of meeting Aloy halfway, going to the capital to help protect it, but being all "I'm here and I'm helping because you were right that there are good people who need help, but I'm not happy about being outside the embrace and I will be returning as soon as this poo poo is over, mmkay?" Aloy : "I fought my way through an army while you cowered in this cave. You really think you can stop me?" Old: "Aloy, that is not neccesary!" Aloy: "What would YOU know about what is neccesary? About what it took to be standing here in this threshold? This is my birthright, you don't get to take it from me a second time."
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Jul 23, 2021 20:31
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Ted Faro chat is like Caesar's legion chat
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Jul 23, 2021 22:14
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Legion chat is about a game that is good at least. Just because ubisoft isn't on the box doesn't mean horizon isn't still a boring open world collactathon
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Jul 23, 2021 22:18
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Gaius Marius posted:Legion chat is about a game that is good at least. Just because ubisoft isn't on the box doesn't mean horizon isn't still a boring open world collactathon Nah, Horizon Zero Dawn is good and has a good story.
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Jul 23, 2021 22:20
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Screaming Idiot posted:Nah, Horizon Zero Dawn is good and has a good story. Yeah, HZD is a good game.
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Jul 23, 2021 22:23
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It lets me shoot Dinobots!
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Jul 23, 2021 22:28
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Starting from a beginning point of "Let's make a game about robot dinosaurs" and making it not stupid is an accomplishment on its own.
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Jul 23, 2021 22:39
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Vic posted:Ted Faro chat is like Caesar's legion chat The only good legion is a dead one.
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Jul 23, 2021 23:17
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One of the best and most unique things about Ted Faro compared to other games is that you never meet him, fight him, or interact with him in any way. He's the scourge of humanity, one of the best villians in all of video games, and he died in luxury surrounded by holo-girls almost a thousand years before you were born.
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Jul 23, 2021 23:19
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Starting from a beginning point of "Let's make a game about robot dinosaurs" and making it not stupid is an accomplishment on its own. When they laid out WHY the robots were dinosaurs and it all made complete sense I knew HZD was going to be one hell of a game. They put so much thought into everything in that world.
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Jul 23, 2021 23:20
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Starting from a beginning point of "Let's make a game about robot dinosaurs" and making it not stupid is an accomplishment on its own. It really was, when I bought it I expected it to be fun but stupid and not as good as it was, the world was very well thought out for such a silly premise and the combat was a blast It's not perfect it falls into a lot if open world traps but it was better than it had any right to be, especially storywise. A better than the sum of its parts kinda game where it borrowed liberally from others but made it its own thing
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Jul 23, 2021 23:24
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ookiimarukochan posted:Just out of curiosity, what do the people who think that Ted Faro was genuinely a visionary genius doing what's best for humanity think of Elon Musk? I believe I have found the crux of this Discourse. No one in this thread thinks this. There is unanimous consensus that Faro was an idiot given far too much power by an utterly dysfunctional political/economic system that he could trigger two entire catastrophes out of personal greed and grievances. One that destroyed the world, another that crippled any hopes of recovery. And no, Musk is a mental mediocrity. He has not engaged with the science, nor the hard science fiction literature that he purports to devour. His Mars project is a joke. He has a decent rocket package. But he has made no advances in life support, biospheres, anything that could support an interplanetary expedition or a colony for more than a few years without resupply.
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Jul 23, 2021 23:30
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Phobophilia posted:But he has made no advances in life support, biospheres, anything that could support an interplanetary expedition or a colony for more than a few years without resupply. You have to wonder if this is because he's an idiot, or because there isn't currently a pressing need irl. The easy answer is he sucks, which he does, but so did Ted. He was just the money man.
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Jul 23, 2021 23:44
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Kit Walker posted:"If the world is starting from scratch, we have to make sure the new humanity doesn't have any of our knowledge or access to technology. Those things are poison that will only destroy them in the long run" - not a position anprims would take, apparently He is strictly saying that stuff to justify whitewashing his name. Also no, anprims outside of a Reddit meme wouldn't take that position at all. You need to know why civilization is bad to explain why it's not brought back, and 99% of what anprims do is write instructionals and think about the return to oral tradition. That's actually to an extent exactly what the people Faro gassed were doing: passing down the knowledge of how far is too far when it comes to technology. They probably didn't go so far as "do not form hierarchies nor practice permaculture", but "do not, under any circumstances, cause runaway climate change" was definitely important.
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Jul 23, 2021 23:56
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Phobophilia posted:I believe I have found the crux of this Discourse. No one in this thread thinks this. There is unanimous consensus that Faro was an idiot given far too much power by an utterly dysfunctional political/economic system that he could trigger two entire catastrophes out of personal greed and grievances. One that destroyed the world, another that crippled any hopes of recovery. Can't really agree with the "Faro is actually an idiot" point. Perhaps my favorite part about him being the main villain and causing the destruction of complex life on Earth is that his rise to power came through solving the climate crisis which presumably would have doomed humanity even sooner if not for his inventions. He starts out as kind of a silly tech entrepreneur developing robot butlers, carries that tech brilliance into working with Sobek to solve the most pressing issue facing humanity instead of just making luxury gadgets for rich people, and that act leads to him becoming the most famous and revered genius on Earth in addition to becoming the first trillionaire. It's only once he's reached that point that he starts moving to the evil side of things by making "peacekeeping robots" and the like, and becomes completely corrupted by his own brilliance into thinking it will be fine if those same militarized robots are designed with so many layers of encryption and other protections that the creators have no way to shut them down once they go rogue. Making him some sort of puffed-up rich kid like Elon Musk would have made him one dimensional, going from being the legitimate savior of humanity to the person being most responsible for its downfall, reduced to spinning up psychological justifications for why he's justified in killing all the ALPHAs to stop humanity from running into the same mistakes makes him a thousand times more interesting. I think the reading of it as him being completely full of himself and just making up bullshit excuses so that future generations won't know it was his fault is too simplistic, I see it as someone who reached the heights of what society can give someone in terms of reverence by legitimate means followed by an absolute downfall that he outright couldn't deal with mentally. He probably knows the things he's saying to the ALPHAs are just his own excuses to some extent but also knows firsthand that when technology advances too far it outpaces the humans that created it and destroys everything. He knows at that point that he's pathetic, what he's doing is pathetic, and his last act is to take control of things one last time against the wishes of everyone else involved in an attempt not purely to save face, but to give humanity a better shot at avoiding his same mistakes which is an understandable mindset for someone in such a completely degraded position as him. My technology killed the planet, I have to make sure that nobody can replicate my technology ever again even if it means killing the team responsible for the project that's trying to save what's left. None of this is to absolve him of his actions really, but I think the interesting aspect of his character and why the game is so much more memorable than just "robot dinosaur game" is taking a true savior figure and then subjecting him to levels of guilt that would be intolerable to anyone. And as someone else pointed out, it's all in the past and there's nothing you can do about it. He did what he did and then hosed off to his survival bunker, assuming those were ever actually constructed. Different aspects of the program like the bunkers and the humanity ark that shot off into space were kind of sparsely documented from what I remember playing the game, probably to be expanded on further in the upcoming sequel. Musk is a dipshit who from what I can gather is mostly propped up by actual engineers working underneath him and designing everything. For whatever Sobek contributed to his enterprises, he at least seemed to be the somewhere on her same level of technical brilliance before ego-driven mistakes led to the downfall of him and everything else. The biggest issue I had with the story was that Sobek and the ALPHAs would have let him anywhere loving near the HZD project at all after what he did, let alone near enough to the top that he could weasel "Omega clearance" into the code somewhere and override everyone. HZD is good as hell and I should go back and play it again.
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Jul 24, 2021 00:10
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Douche Wolf 89 posted:He is strictly saying that stuff to justify whitewashing his name. Also no, anprims outside of a Reddit meme wouldn't take that position at all. You need to know why civilization is bad to explain why it's not brought back, and 99% of what anprims do is write instructionals and think about the return to oral tradition. That's actually to an extent exactly what the people Faro gassed were doing: passing down the knowledge of how far is too far when it comes to technology. They probably didn't go so far as "do not form hierarchies nor practice permaculture", but "do not, under any circumstances, cause runaway climate change" was definitely important. He says that in a log where he’s just talking to himself. Whether he’s subconsciously acting for other reasons or not, by that point he’s convinced himself that knowledge is bad. His true motivation doesn’t matter because the end result is the same: human knowledge and civilization is eradicated. As someone who spent waaaay too long hanging out on anarchist discord servers, most primmies just spend all their time complaining about the internet and jerking off about how cool it would be to live in the wild in small tribes and spend their free time having sex with babes. If anything I’m being too polite to them The one point you’re wrong on is that Faro didn’t really contribute anything besides funds. Sobek was the one who actually developed the technology that helped undo climate change. Faro simply had his name on the company. The comparison to Musk is extremely apt. Faro has a giant ego but it doesn’t come from his own accomplishments. The only thing he ever did was work with the right people Kit Walker has a new favorite as of 00:18 on Jul 24, 2021 |
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Jul 24, 2021 00:11
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Ted Faro is a hero and without him we never would've gotten a chance to play Horizon: Zero Dawn
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Jul 24, 2021 00:43
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The best part of HZD is the bit NoEyedSquareGuy references in that Humanity managed to stop the worst catastrophes of climate change for the Claw Back, then hosed themselves even harder anyway as to completely murder all life on earth. Its so wildly, incredibly cynical in a way that the last few years make extremely real.
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