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Incoherence
May 22, 2004

POYO AND TEAR

causticBeet posted:

Wait they’re not doubling up the extra prize pool money from last years book with this years TI?
The battle pass and its levels are 75% the cost of last year's because they took out the component that went into the prize pool.

Yes, this means Valve is making the same amount of money per battle pass purchase and just not sharing any with the players.

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FACKER
Jan 2, 2005

bawfuls posted:

As an example, lvl 1 Tree vs PA:

PA armor is 4.83(78%), damage ~56, 0.72 attacks per sec

Tree armor is 1.5(91%), damage ~91, 0.61 attacks per sec

Tree hits PA for 91*0.78*0.61 att/sec = ~43 dmg/sec

PA hits Tree for 56*0.91*0.72 att/sec ~37 dmg/sec

PA has 620hp at lvl 1, Tree has 700.

If you can score the first hit by striking from the treeline, you’re winning that fight unless she can blink out.

And if the PA wants to man up, she has to stand in your Q to do it (~30 dps at lvl1, twice that if you can get the other end into a tree)

You have to be careful about lane creeps aggroing onto you with your low armor as you'll get shredded by them. Dota is never as simple as comparing two heroes' numbers in a vacuum like above.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Sure, there are always complications. I’m just saying in my experience spamming Tree4 the last ~18 months, (181 games the past 12 months according to Dotabuff) I have not had this issue. I’ve found it extremely easy to manfight most carries (with notable exceptions) at level 1, the combination of high damage and multiple slows is quite formidable.

Maybe it’s because I’m in a low mmr bracket, but so is the poster who was asking about supports.

The fears of low armor are overblown at this tier and far outweighed by Tree’s high base damage.

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei

Also been playing a lot of Treant lately. The issue with Tree's low armor is that you're almost never manfighting one on one with the pos1 at level 1. In a level 1 lane situation, the pos5 is also going to be hitting you and/or casting spells at you, which means you're almost certainly losing the trade.

That said, Treant can definitely bully a lot of lanes by being smart about popping out to smack one or twice before going back into the trees. Those 90 damage punches add up quickly.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 31, 2016

Trading as treant is totally fine because that's the goal of a pos5. You want the enemy to not be able to focus on laning, to use up their regen and be either forced out of lane or to have to buy/ferry more. You can also mitigate the low armor issues by just having enough sustain that you'll come out of trades favorably, which is really easy to do with the health regen from your W. You can also just grab early tranquils and reset after every time you go in for a big harass. Lastly, Treant's main strength is that you can maneuver through trees to make it so that you're never in a fair 1v1 vs anyone you're trading against, and if anyone tries to retaliate after you get in a single big punch you just slip back into the treeline, and if they chase you at the cost of CS that's a win

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Yeah the 5 is also hitting you, but your 3 should also be hitting the 1.

And in practice you often get into a situation where you’re chasing one of them which is ideal cause they’re slowed and just eating your big tree punches

Edit: and the treeline in-out as mentioned, huge for early harass. If someone tries to chase Tree into the treeline you let them come deep then Q/block/manfight and they get wrecked cause you have treewalking and bonus regen

bawfuls fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 13, 2021

mistermojo
Jul 3, 2004

hoodwink is such a fun hero. pretty much all the new heroes have been cool

Plank Walker
Aug 11, 2005
reminds me i need to start playing support snapfire again. had to give her up because my buddy i usually pair always does weird stutter steps when i'm trying to give him the cookie and ends up getting launched 90 degrees to the side instead of at the enemy or away from them

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003
back in the day we'd get a bfury mordiggian and mask of madness on tree and call him battle tree... and lose like a Baws

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003
ice frog, port deadwood immediately. or else

KRILLIN IN THE NAME
Mar 25, 2006

:ssj:goku i won't do what u tell me:ssj:


Smythe posted:

back in the day we'd get a bfury mordiggian and mask of madness on tree and call him battle tree... and lose like a Baws

i used to love armlet and MoM tree. i'd get blademail too thinking "if mask of madness makes me take more damage, then blademail means i do more damage back" :downsgun:

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Smythe posted:

back in the day we'd get a bfury mordiggian and mask of madness on tree and call him battle tree... and lose like a Baws
There was a point in the past year or so when Tree’s level 10 talent options were invis on the passive OR +80 damage and people did occasionally take the latter to build him as a right clicker

I’m sure there are fun replays on YouTube somewhere

Uncle Spriggly
Jan 29, 2009
I'm very sick of Medusa. Her shard and scepter combo is almost unstoppable if she makes it to lvl 25 and the opposing team doesn't have a hard hero counter.

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003

KRILLIN IN THE NAME posted:

i used to love armlet and MoM tree. i'd get blademail too thinking "if mask of madness makes me take more damage, then blademail means i do more damage back" :downsgun:

bawfuls posted:

There was a point in the past year or so when Tree’s level 10 talent options were invis on the passive OR +80 damage and people did occasionally take the latter to build him as a right clicker

I’m sure there are fun replays on YouTube somewhere

bad rear end

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

Uncle Spriggly posted:

I'm very sick of Medusa. Her shard and scepter combo is almost unstoppable if she makes it to lvl 25 and the opposing team doesn't have a hard hero counter.

She's my go-to ban when someone beats me to Techies. Pubs absolutely suck at shutting her down in my experience.

As does my 5 stack :negative:

Boatswain
May 29, 2012

bawfuls posted:

There was a point in the past year or so when Tree’s level 10 talent options were invis on the passive OR +80 damage and people did occasionally take the latter to build him as a right clicker

I’m sure there are fun replays on YouTube somewhere

I watched a "professional" Dota 1 game 10000 years ago. One team had a pos 1 tree who went radiance first item and they eventually won.

Thanks for listening.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Is there any truth to what I've seen posted elsewhere, that MMR skill now is higher at lower values? Anecdotally, I was able to get to like 5500 before I stopped playing in 2017, and now I'm floating around 4300.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

That would make some sense, if you assume the metagame evolves over time and more people watch pro matches/guides etc. Anecdotally I am also lower mmr than I was 3 or 4 years ago despite being confidant with a wider variety of heroes and overall being better at stuff like last hitting.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 31, 2016

I was 4k in 2014 and I can say that even 2.5-3k games are much better than those used to be. Seven years ago you were lucky if you ever saw a ward in your game, now every single game you've got two supports in the midlane trying to get into a deward fight, checking the other team's inventories for wards and pinging them out and noting if they disappear into fog and the ward's gone from their stash when they reappear

causticBeet
Mar 2, 2010

BIG VINCE COMIN FOR YOU
There’s a really stark difference between the bottom tiers - the jump in how chill and generally competent players are between herald/guardian and archon/legend is really extreme. 2.5-3k games are probably rough for someone with better mechanics and awareness, but they’re a far cry from the absolute rage/tilt/mental fuckfest that is sub-1k dota l

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Is BKB or Maledict bugged right now? I know you can't purge it but I was about to die to a maledict tick so I used my BKB, then promptly died to the maledict, like gaben smited me personally from on high.

e: I guess BKB doesn't give 100% spell damage immunity, so even though maledict application doesn't go through BKB, the damage can?

Kild
Apr 24, 2010

ya the DoT doesnt pierce but the burst tick does

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

What's the trick to playing hoodwink as a 4? I usually end the game with high damage and low deaths but I still have a terrible winrate.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


The trick is not to play lame heroes that should've never been added to the game.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

I think you're confusing Hoodwink with Arc Warden?

Stan Taylor
Oct 13, 2013

Touched Fuzzy, Got Dizzy
Me and the boys got back into dota in the past month or two. I’m mostly going mid with Puck, Lina, or Death Prophet, but I’m looking to try out some new (to me) mids. Puck is my all time favorite because I love being an annoying, slippery poo poo and just barely getting out of a fight alive or being an orb ahead of a fleeing enemy to secure a kill after a team fight or whatever.

Who’s fun to play mid right now?

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

Groovelord Neato posted:

The trick is not to play lame heroes that should've never been added to the game.




what do u think is bad about hoodwink (choose ur words carefully....)

RealityWarCriminal
Aug 10, 2016

:o:
looks like Teemo

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Pamela Springstein posted:

looks like Teemo

Yeah it';s lame league poo poo. Valve should've had to use unused wc3 units as the basis for any new heroes.

Mr.Acula
May 10, 2009

Billions and billions of fat clouds

Have they added Orc with a flamethrower yet?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


dr.acula posted:

Have they added Orc with a flamethrower yet?

Timbersaw shard.

Mr.Acula
May 10, 2009

Billions and billions of fat clouds

Nichael posted:

Timbersaw shard.

I guess, but model wise I thought he was based off the Goblin Shredder

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010

TOOT BOOT posted:

What's the trick to playing hoodwink as a 4? I usually end the game with high damage and low deaths but I still have a terrible winrate.

pick a hero that gives your teammates high damage and low deaths instead of yourself

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003

Sab669 posted:

I think you're confusing Hoodwink with Arc Warden?

arc warden is cool dumbass

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019

For Real!

Stan Taylor posted:

Me and the boys got back into dota in the past month or two. I’m mostly going mid with Puck, Lina, or Death Prophet, but I’m looking to try out some new (to me) mids. Puck is my all time favorite because I love being an annoying, slippery poo poo and just barely getting out of a fight alive or being an orb ahead of a fleeing enemy to secure a kill after a team fight or whatever.

Who’s fun to play mid right now?

Void Spirit is similarly slippy and good fun

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

Pamela Springstein posted:

looks like Teemo



teemo isn't australian im pretty sure

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003
The squirrel is league poo poo and also op.

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003
It’s also a toolbox hero which is fail.

Stan Taylor
Oct 13, 2013

Touched Fuzzy, Got Dizzy
I’m going to try out the squirel.

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sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

hoodwink is a w

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