(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
|
Man, you really have to pay attention to what mods you're opening during Expeditions. I'm running around with Ice Trap and PoB says I do about 500k dps, this is in tier 2 maps. I'm crushing through everything else and freeze-locking bosses to death. But with the wrong mods I am doing almost literally no damage to Expedition monsters from the final couple explosions with cold resistance. Literally impossible due to many of them having ES which I can't break during the wait for mana regen once my flasks run out because I'm not killing anything. Regular Expedition mods are fairly easy in comparison, just about avoiding dying for a couple seconds. I didn't really run into this issue at all during leveling so it ruined a couple maps before I wisened up.
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 11:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:48 |
|
|
Expeditions have immune to certain damage modifiers is bad design
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 11:45
|
|
|
12 rats tied together posted:in hindsight i was exactly wrong with my opinions on how this patch was going to go. the league mechanic is really good, and it's pretty fun to blow up the stuff in the right order The benefit is by addressing mudflation they have more design space to do more interesting boss fights and add in systems which buff the player Not my idea just saying what they said
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 11:45
|
|
|
boredsatellite posted:Expeditions have immune to certain damage modifiers is bad design Simply do not blow them up 
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 11:49
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:The vendor that modifies gear after you buy it is very good. Our crew has made some pretty strong pieces off of that dude. He's fine, it's not really very exciting though, if I was SSF I'd care more about him. The whole league mechanic is way too fiddly and time consuming for the rewards it gives. The Logbooks are better though, too bad they are somewhat rare.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:12
|
|
|
AggressivelyStupid posted:Simply do not blow them up creating content that you are very inclined to "simply not do" is bad design.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:17
|
|
|
Am I missing something or how do you get the expedition locker to your hideout? It's not in my decorations nor did it arrive with the four bozos.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:21
|
|
|
boredsatellite posted:Expeditions have immune to certain damage modifiers is bad design I get that they want you to have to be careful with how you place charges. I get that "You can't put a charge here, use your wrinkley gamer brain to find a way around this obstacle while also optimizing your path." is a thing that makes the challenge of this entire system interesting. But the fact that it is either A) A complete dead-loving stop, you lose or B) A total freebie, depending on how you specced your character with no challenge at all, is just real poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:25
|
|
|
Got positively rinsed by Izaro after opening the labyrinth in Act 3. I know he was always a heavy hitter but that green goo artillery he’s got just deletes me on the spot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:25
|
|
|
Vincent Valentine posted:I get that they want you to have to be careful with how you place charges. I get that "You can't put a charge here, use your wrinkley gamer brain to find a way around this obstacle while also optimizing your path." is a thing that makes the challenge of this entire system interesting. But the fact that it is either A) A complete dead-loving stop, you lose or B) A total freebie, depending on how you specced your character with no challenge at all, is just real poo poo. quote by chris wilson: "It takes me about 6 seconds to check the mods and place the charges" huge letdown so far, especially with the reroll currency that i got 2 of each at lvl 70 which means the vendors are basically useless to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:33
|
|
|
Vincent Valentine posted:I get that they want you to have to be careful with how you place charges. I get that "You can't put a charge here, use your wrinkley gamer brain to find a way around this obstacle while also optimizing your path." is a thing that makes the challenge of this entire system interesting. But the fact that it is either A) A complete dead-loving stop, you lose or B) A total freebie, depending on how you specced your character with no challenge at all, is just real poo poo. counterpoint: getting freebies rules
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:40
|
|
|
Vincent Valentine posted:I get that they want you to have to be careful with how you place charges. I get that "You can't put a charge here, use your wrinkley gamer brain to find a way around this obstacle while also optimizing your path." is a thing that makes the challenge of this entire system interesting. But the fact that it is either A) A complete dead-loving stop, you lose or B) A total freebie, depending on how you specced your character with no challenge at all, is just real poo poo. It's not supposed to be a challenge, it's supposed to make it instantly obvious which ones you can take and which ones are a gently caress no. Yolomon Wayne posted:creating content that you are very inclined to "simply not do" is bad design. lmao what do you even think content means
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 13:10
|
|
|
Vincent Valentine posted:I get that they want you to have to be careful with how you place charges. I get that "You can't put a charge here, use your wrinkley gamer brain to find a way around this obstacle while also optimizing your path." is a thing that makes the challenge of this entire system interesting. But the fact that it is either A) A complete dead-loving stop, you lose or B) A total freebie, depending on how you specced your character with no challenge at all, is just real poo poo. i hated ultimatum but thought those mods were way more interesting, even if in typical ggg fashion some were insane and almost impossible and others were pushovers
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 13:13
|
|
|
sorry ggg i refuse to read.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 13:15
|
|
|
I think the beef (which I agree with) is that's its almost always a binary modifier, which either makes the content impossible or doesn't have any impact at all, depending on your build (see also, reflect). I much prefer mods with some gradation of difficulty.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 13:15
|
|
|
Insurrectionist posted:Am I missing something or how do you get the expedition locker to your hideout? It's not in my decorations nor did it arrive with the four bozos. Hideout Decorations --> Hideout Item category (along with Heist and the no-longer-necessary Harvest seed lockers).
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 13:24
|
|
|
Bemused Observer posted:I think the beef (which I agree with) is that's its almost always a binary modifier, which either makes the content impossible or doesn't have any impact at all, depending on your build (see also, reflect). I much prefer mods with some gradation of difficulty. Off the top of my head there's monsters have increased health/reduced damage taken/deal increased damage/faster attack and movement/grant no flask charges/deal extra damage as X/have dodge and spell dodge/ignite/freeze/shock and you're going to get at least a couple per encounter. Goons just want to moan
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 13:24
|
|
|
Arzachel posted:Off the top of my head there's monsters have increased health/reduced damage taken/deal increased damage/faster attack and movement/grant no flask charges/deal extra damage as X/have dodge and spell dodge/ignite/freeze/shock and you're going to get at least a couple per encounter. Goons just want to moan Oh yes, those are fine, I meant that elemental immunity is almost always binary (unless you're playing a multi-element build), and I'd rather binary mods weren't a thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 13:32
|
|
|
I’m gonna reroll before hitting dominus lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 14:04
|
|
|
whypick1 posted:Hideout Decorations --> Hideout Item category (along with Heist and the no-longer-necessary Harvest seed lockers). using the hideout menu feels like stepping into some place I shouldn't be, like everything in there was just thrown haphazardly into a pile in the basement because they couldn't be bothered big kudos to the people who deal with it and make baller hideouts
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 14:25
|
|
|
Arzachel posted:lmao what do you even think content means Its stuff to do in the game, and if you cant do that stuff, its bad design. How hard is that to grasp?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 14:41
|
|
|
Me playing tic tac toe: if I put my circle here I will lose! this is BAD content
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 14:46
|
|
|
I like the league gimmick so far but yeah, I had no idea the order of the explosions mattered
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 14:49
|
|
|
Yolomon Wayne posted:Its stuff to do in the game, and if you cant do that stuff, its bad design. lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 14:55
|
|
|
if I have to stop and read for a quarter second it's bad "content" 🤓
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 14:58
|
|
|
McFrugal posted:What reduced defenses? AFAIK all they changed was flasks and base evasion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:06
|
|
|
Yolomon Wayne posted:Its stuff to do in the game, and if you cant do that stuff, its bad design. Regardless of whether that specific element is good or bad, you're saying something akin to the mines in minesweeper being bad design because you can't click on them. Or spikes in Sonic, or piranha flowers in Mario, or insert some puzzle analogy here. Like, the fact you have to look at the field and you might have to think for a second to plan the route is what makes it the bare minimum of a puzzle to solve or be a gameplay mechanic. Whether solving it is fun or not, hard or easy is a different story, but yeah it is very hard to grasp that "bad things you shouldn't touch" in a video game are bad design.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:15
|
|
|
*runs into Goomba in Mario 1-1* wtf is this dogshit game design Miyamoto?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:21
|
|
|
Personally I think they should add immunity modifiers to maps and have every map roll with at least 1-3 immunities depending on the tier of the map. Don't like it, just read the map and reroll. Easy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
Have we come full circle to thinking that D2 style damage immunity is good actually?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:26
|
|
|
After going 37/40 Ritual, then like..14/40 Ultimatum (plus I've played leagues previous to those), I'm not sure if I'm even going to make it to maps. Only been playing a little, and the motivation just isn't there. If this was my first time playing the game, I'm sure I'd love it as much as ever. And I'm not conceptually opposed to tactical, meaningful gameplay at all. However, these things: - Slow player movement down - Less DPS - Less defensives (esp flasks / ailment immunity) - Higher monster health (for act 1 at least) Don't jive with: - High density (you can't tactfully deal with a swarm of mobs, esp when they're faster than you and just surround you, looking at you first half of the new Act 1) - Worthwhile drops being very rare (slower kills and slower movement means even less chances at pulling the lever, but 3.14 and 3.15 have both nerfed a lot of loot acquisition) - Crafting gear being extremely RNG and requiring large amounts of currency (basically the same as above) I only watched part of the Allcraft interview, but I did hear Chris say he thinks it's a very big problem currently with how much there is to do, and how long it takes if you want to see all the content. That *also* doesn't jive with making the campaign, of all things, take even longer. Much less filling out the atlas, the conqueror grind, getting to a8(9) Sirus, getting to Maven, getting to Shaper, getting to Uber Elder...all of those are pretty big time investments to the point where it's already kind of tiresome when you just want to fight some bosses. Sure, in trade league you can buy your way around some of that grind if you just focus on efficient map grinding or something, but it feels a lot more fun to me when I can do that type of progression myself. Not to mention, if you want to say, play with new skills or a new build idea or such, unless you're a speedrunner, that's still several hours before you even know if your build is fun or capable. So yeah, if they want more meaningful, tactical gameplay, I'm interested, but they need to rework a lot more than just nerfing players and buffing monsters to make that fun - esp for those of us who have played through the campaign several times (or hundreds for some of you!). I'd love to know what they think a reasonable goal is for "most players". I believe they've said before that most don't even get to maps, and many less ever even interact with trade. Yet the game feels pretty balanced around lots of map grinding, tons of hours, and trading. Maybe they don't care. I'd rather see the campaign be faster, have much better drops so you can start fleshing out your build much earlier, and encourage players to get to maps and check it out, but that just doesn't seem their goal. Feels like, if anything, these recent changes will be getting newer players to quit even sooner.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
AggressivelyStupid posted:if I have to stop and read for a quarter second it's bad "content" 🤓 how am I going to get my dopamine hits otherwise????
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:30
|
|
|
FZeroRacer posted:Personally I think they should add immunity modifiers to maps and have every map roll with at least 1-3 immunities depending on the tier of the map. Don't like it, just read the map and reroll. Easy. Hyperbole much? MMF Freeway posted:Have we come full circle to thinking that D2 style damage immunity is good actually? I'm fine with immunity in this context because: 1. It's not the entire area, just that encounter; 2. you have to actively brick your Expedition by activating one that your character can't deal with, just the presence of one isn't enough to do so.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
You'd think this is a reddit thread with people being upset that a chest exists that you might not want to open if it counters your build
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 15:33
|
|
|
Could I get an invite for Gwnthiel if there's room?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Youd think this is a reddit thread with people defending bad design choices to the death. Immunities are bad design, locking builds out of content is bad design. Making it harder, fine, but straight "nope, not you" is bad design.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
it's an ARPG with a million different skills, do not expect to be able to do all content on one character
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
A single node with immunity does not prevent you from doing the content unless you have a simple gorilla brain and just slam down the tnt on it without thinking You're self reporting here
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 16:32
|
|
|
AggressivelyStupid posted:A single node with immunity does not prevent you from doing the content unless you have a simple gorilla brain and just slam down the tnt on it without thinking because not only are there multiple nodes with 'gently caress you' levels of modifiers sometimes it can result in significantly less loot because you're unfortunately The Wrong Build. also the fact that 'it's just a single modifier just ignore it' doesn't make the modifier any less poo poo. Like reflect maps they only exist in a binary 'you can do it or you can't' choice and they don't significantly alter how you play.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 16:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:48 |
|
|
I have, yes. The fact that you choose which mods to unlock make it a nonfactor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 16:44
|
|