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Imagined posted:The people who won't learn at 60 weren't any different at 20. They were lazy assholes who learned the bare minimum skills necessary to exist when they first became adults and never learned a single thing beyond that, only growing more and more out of date. People who want to learn never stop. People who don't want to learn never start. I still see people at stores trying (and failing) to use EFTPOS. Once I had sympathy for them because they're usually in their 60s, but cards have been around since the early 1980s. If you can't learn something that's been around for almost half a century, that's on you. Hell, I'm about to hit 50 and I'm still learning all the time Some people just don't want to. They finished highscool and just stopped developing as a person.
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Jul 25, 2021 10:43
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The language meltdown is the gooniest thing ever. Presumably people are imagining immigrants to the US not learning English. I am imagining expats of 5+ years in SE Asia going ONE... TIGER... BEER... PLEASE, CHOP CHOP. Cold. Cooooold. Plenty of people learn languages to a practical level in a year or two as adults, because they aren't cosseted IT workers and don't get parachuted into an English speaking corporate enclave. They have no choice if they want to immigrate or earn a living abroad. This is like the cooking debate all over again. Apparently doing some basic homework outside one's comfort zone is Very Hard and only an elite few could ever pull it off.
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Jul 25, 2021 11:16
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From the r/relationships thread: AITA for not answering work emails while on vacation resulting in the loss of a client? quote:My husband and I took a much needed vacation to the beach last week and the entire week before we left I sent emails arpund letting everyone know I'd be completely inaccessible for the week so to come and see me for any work materials needed, files etc. I gave everyone everything I knew or thought they'd need and left confident that everyone had prepared themselves, seeing as I'd given them 8 days to prepare.
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Jul 25, 2021 16:34
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Batterypowered7 posted:From the r/relationships thread: Lol. Leave the company and take the rest of the clients
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Jul 25, 2021 17:53
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Outrail posted:Lol. Leave the company and take the rest of the clients It's hard to say because honestly the specifics make or break this one and we don't have the details.. But imo the OP probably hosed up on this one. 1) By their own admission everyone else is blaming them. The entire group being against the poster is usually a sign of an unreliable narrator. 2) They keep pounding the idea "they had so much time to ask me for info!", but that does not make sense. The person who could request info is not familiar with the account, the OP is. The OP is the one who should be expected to know what files are pertinent. This is literally a supervisor handing something off to a subordinate who normally has nothing to do with it, then blaming the subordinate for not having the clairvoyance to know exactly what materials they would need to handle the client. It wouldn't matter if they had six months to request it. Why would they know. That's your job, OP! You're the one who should know what files are pertinent! Especially if it was something apparently important enough to blow up the account by being absent for a single week. Again, we can't really know from this story because it's impossible to properly judge if this person's actions were reasonable without knowing what kind of "pertinent files" were omitted and what happened with the client. I don't know it's bullshit for sure, but it's smelling like it. Put yourself in the reverse situation. Your supervisor is leaving on vacation. They're gonna hand you a client you normally don't interact with. While they are gone, you can't find an important thing. When your supervisor gets back they blame you, saying "you had so much time to request this, why didn't you know!?" Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 18:22
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I was with the OP until I read your comment. I wonder what profession they're in. Why were client files hard to find or not available on an intranet, and why didn't the manager assign who was looking after what clients while they were away and hand over the files or show them where they are.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:33
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It reeks of “gently caress you for not asking for what you couldn’t have known about”
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Jul 25, 2021 18:40
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The problem is clearly the management who let the company get into a state where no one can disappear for a week without all hell breaking loose.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:42
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ultrafilter posted:The problem is clearly the management who let the company get into a state where no one can disappear for a week without all hell breaking loose. Yeah I just about to add: the alternative conclusion here is just "the company is badly run and it's not any one person's specific fault". It may also be the client was just unreasonable and blew up about some minor thing that couldn't reasonably be anticipated. Both of those things are possible. But the main thing that leaves a distaste in my mouth about the story is the OP, a supervisor, blaming a subordinate for not specifically requesting unknown material. The OP never brings up the company procedures or the client's behavior and just bangs on the errant subordinate instead. That's the main reason I'm inclined to judge against them.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:47
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Actually yeah in hindsight that's a pretty obvious case of 'Bus factor One' and a lack of handover notes. If op had better filing structure maybe their subordinate would have been able to find the right files. I've had massive issues over the last year with not knowing how to do my job because my predecessor/manager just up and left without any handover notes and just said 'well you should have been taking notes' and refusing to respond to any questions or even just write out a list of things I should be aware of. So I'm expected to just know not only how to do everything but also expected to just know about all the things we do. So every now and then I'll get a 'why didn't you attend this community group meeting or do anything with them for six months?!?' email and I've never even heard of these people. I'm guessing there's a t least three more happy surprises like this looking on my horizon.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:58
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Probably the ops first supervisor position and client. Lmfao just keep your phone and stuff with you in case something goes terribly wrong if you suck at setting up a playbook to handoff Edit: my response was for the reddit poster not the above goon
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Jul 25, 2021 19:17
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Outrail posted:So every now and then I'll get a 'why didn't you attend this community group meeting or do anything with them for six months?!?' email and I've never even heard of these people. I'm guessing there's a t least three more happy surprises like this looking on my horizon. It’s time to start hiding jars of jenkum around the office in unused filing cabinet drawers
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Jul 25, 2021 19:49
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ultrafilter posted:The problem is clearly the management who let the company get into a state where no one can disappear for a week without all hell breaking loose. Yeah, let’s not all get out tongues out for the corporate boot, in this thread of all places. It’s pretty hosed that a vacation has now been turned into something you’re expected to still monitor your job for.
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Jul 26, 2021 02:12
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stump collector posted:Lmfao just keep your phone and stuff with you LMAO gently caress off with that noise. Is the company gonna compensate you for hours out of your vacation you spend working? No?
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Jul 26, 2021 02:15
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Yeah I feel its common courtesy to learn the local language if you plan to live somewhere permanently.
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Jul 26, 2021 03:22
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How's your Native American coming along? 
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Jul 26, 2021 05:21
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Pekinduck posted:Yeah I feel its common courtesy to learn the local language if you plan to live somewhere permanently. I'm trying! It's hard! Glad I never gave anyone hell for that! On another note, it's shocking (not really) how many Anglo expats you will meet who have very particular views on immigration in their native country. Like, what do you think you are? Cthulu Carl posted:LMAO gently caress off with that noise. Is the company gonna compensate you for hours out of your vacation you spend working? No? Call me a bootlicker but I'm going to say if you're some sort of bigshot manager you could at least respond to an email within 48 hours. Sure, set the expectation that you're on vacation, x and y will handle my duties, don't contact me unless it can't be helped, but also this issue seems like it could have been resolved in one minute at her leisure? Or, failing that, she should have prepared her subordinate better? Presumably she knew what files the subordinate would need?  We're definitely not getting the whole story.
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Jul 26, 2021 05:48
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e: nm
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Jul 26, 2021 05:50
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No thanks, I’m not giving up my extra time to help a faceless corporation make more money. My life is already being wasted.
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Jul 26, 2021 05:51
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If my contract gives me a holiday, I take the holiday. If the company wants to negotiate a contract that includes some level of on-call during the holiday, they are welcome to. If they don't, then they shouldn't expect my attention during the holiday any more than I would expect them to randomly pay me more out of nowhere. Edit: Although if they *were* the sort of company that randomly pays me more out of nowhere, I probably *would* occasionally check my email on holiday, because they have established that sort of relationship.
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Jul 26, 2021 06:12
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No company should have a load bearing employee where even one week can cause a catastrophic loss of a client end of story.
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Jul 26, 2021 06:22
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My company requires that all employees take a 2 week break each year where they are off the system entirely. Phone and email access are taken away. The other two weeks of leave can be used however you want.
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Jul 26, 2021 10:23
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Spatule posted:If you are going to live in another country for the foreseeable future and after 5 years can't speak the local language beyond "good dog bad dog no poop!", you're either incredibly lazy, or mentally challenged. I'd love to hear another explanation. I'm just going to add my two cents to this having lived in a foreign country for five years as of May of this year. Learning a new language to the point of being able to have a conversation in public with a stranger is difficult. And some languages and countries are way more difficult than others just due to the fact that their speakers never hear anyone speak a bad version of their language so they don't understand it with your lovely accent. The Dutch will listen to me say something in my mangled Dutch accent and they immediately switch to English, why waste time? I know a lot of foreigners here, some have lived here for decades, the ones who speak passable Dutch is under 50%. In any case, learning, understanding, and using a new language is one of the hardest things I've ever tried to do. There's nothing trivial or easy about it. I'm thankful every day that my job and life here doesn't depend on me speaking Dutch.
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Jul 26, 2021 10:52
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Local Weather posted:In any case, learning, understanding, and using a new language is one of the hardest things I've ever tried to do. There's nothing trivial or easy about it. I'm thankful every day that my job and life here doesn't depend on me speaking Dutch. If this was the case you would 100% be speaking perfect Dutch by now.
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Jul 26, 2021 10:53
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Boiled Water posted:If this was the case you would 100% be speaking perfect Dutch by now. Probably. Thankfully Dutch people are happy to speak English rather than hear me maul their language.
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Jul 26, 2021 10:56
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Yeah count me in to the it's difficult crowd, and if you haven't done it yourself, you really can't understand it. My wife is currently slowly learning my native language german in order to be able to work, and it's not an easy process (or language), especially if you actually have a normal full day of studying or working on top of it. If you go to a full time language course you can probably be decent enough in half a year, but who has that much free time or money, when they have bills to pay? Of course if it's about survival or something drastic you're force to learn quickly, but it's still not something that randomly happens, it's incredibly stressful and difficult.
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Jul 26, 2021 11:08
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Barudak posted:No company should have a load bearing employee where even one week can cause a catastrophic loss of a client end of story. You’re always going to end up with someone where a bunch of their poo poo doesn’t end up on a networked drive or something. This person easily could have put all the files for their clients on a share drive easily.
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Jul 26, 2021 11:08
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Barudak posted:No company should have a load bearing employee where even one week can cause a catastrophic loss of a client end of story. Invalid Validation posted:No thanks, I’m not giving up my extra time to help a faceless corporation make more money. My life is already being wasted. Atopian posted:If my contract gives me a holiday, I take the holiday. All of these are the right ways to think about this.
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Jul 26, 2021 11:17
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Ugly In The Morning posted:You’re always going to end up with someone where a bunch of their poo poo doesn’t end up on a networked drive or something. This person easily could have put all the files for their clients on a share drive easily. This is preventable by not permitting local writes and re-directing My Documents etc to a networked folder. It's also preventable by that person's boss making sure they have the necessary files to interact with clients before that employee goes on leave.
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Jul 26, 2021 11:18
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Barudak posted:No company should have a load bearing employee where even one week can cause a catastrophic loss of a client end of story. That kind of thinking won't buy the CEO a new yacht!
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Jul 26, 2021 11:19
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Son of Rodney posted:Yeah count me in to the it's difficult crowd, and if you haven't done it yourself, you really can't understand it. How soon until she can carry a conversation with a Bavarian?
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Jul 26, 2021 13:06
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Batterypowered7 posted:How soon until she can carry a conversation with a Bavarian? Why would she want to?
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Jul 26, 2021 14:03
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Barudak posted:No company should have a load bearing employee where even one week can cause a catastrophic loss of a client end of story. Everyone needs to be able to take their time off as true time off. The obligations of a team and a manager in this situation is that this ought to be pushed by the manager and never pulled by the report. What I mean is, a report goes on vacation and the manager makes sure they are covered by colleagues or themself. A manager goes on vacation and the manager makes sure they are covered by reports, colleagues, etc. "They didn't ask me for the file" is a huge red flag about their managerial acumen regarding the ability to set up reports for success and remove, not create, blockers.
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Jul 26, 2021 14:58
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stump collector posted:Probably the ops first supervisor position and client. Lmfao just keep your phone and stuff with you in case something goes terribly wrong if you suck at setting up a playbook to handoff Jokes on you this is my first management position and O do always have my phone on me  Send help I'm so hosed Barudak posted:No company should have a load bearing employee where even one week can cause a catastrophic loss of a client end of story. Bus factor: The number of people who need to be hit by a bus to destroy a company or organization. If your bus factor is one you should make changes or quit. Especially if you are the bus factor, coz you'll never get a real holiday.
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Jul 26, 2021 16:38
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Ugly In The Morning posted:You’re always going to end up with someone where a bunch of their poo poo doesn’t end up on a networked drive or something. This person easily could have put all the files for their clients on a share drive easily.
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Jul 26, 2021 17:46
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Collateral Damage posted:Just because something's on a network share doesn't mean it can be found among the millions of other vaguely named, irrelevant and out of date files sorted into a nonsensical directory structure. My blood pressure just spiked a little.
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Jul 26, 2021 17:52
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Oh man worst file storage I've put up with was keeping hundreds of large reports in a shared Outlook inbox. Whenever one was opened it would take several minutes and this was necessary many times a day. Zero reason to set it up this way and the IT dept kept telling us to move these to a shared folder. It took years for our manager to take a break from planning their remodel all day (including getting faxes from unpaid contractors putting liens on their house) to finally agree to do so and the problem was solved instantly.
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Jul 26, 2021 17:56
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Ugly In The Morning posted:You’re always going to end up with someone where a bunch of their poo poo doesn’t end up on a networked drive or something. This person easily could have put all the files for their clients on a share drive easily. I'm seeing a lot of words that translate to job security.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:37
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Azuth0667 posted:I'm seeing a lot of words that translate to job security. How much of America's horrific work culture can be traced to the ease with which people can be fired? In NZ you can't fire someone for anything less than blatant incompetence or malice without explaining that a) their role is redundant and won't just be immediately filled, b) there's nowhere else to put them in your company and you checked, and c) you tried really hard to make their role not redundant. Hiring folks is rough going here, on both sides, but once you have a real job you're pretty set for a while. There's none of this deliberately making yourself the bus factor one poo poo. I mean there is but that's just barely competent morons doing their thing.
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Jul 26, 2021 22:41
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Somfin posted:How much of America's horrific work culture can be traced to the ease with which people can be fired? IMO, while many elements of America’s horrific work culture can be traced to that, bus factor being a factor is usually due more to America’s predilection for understaffing so executives can buy more yachts. For every person who deliberately squirrels away how to run a business-critical TPS report so they’re always valuable, there are ten people who end up being the sole owner of that kind of knowledge because their employer didn’t hire enough people to learn it as well, and ten more that are working three jobs for the salary of one and lack time to fit in documentation.
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Jul 26, 2021 23:29
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