LanceHunter posted:

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1420852746966741007?s=20

Biden mandating the vaccine for all Americans would be the wildest possible move.

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

We tried nothing and we're all out of ideas. Oh well!

LanceHunter posted:

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1420852746966741007?s=20

Biden mandating the vaccine for all Americans would be the wildest possible move.

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

I'm very, very, very pro-vaccination but I am not in favor of any administration claiming this power. That's like a step or two away from President Donald Trump Jr. mandating hydroxychloroquine.

Anti-vax federal workers can get hosed. You want to work for Uncle Sam? Then you follow his rules.

stab posted:

I'm down for America Civil War 2: Virus Boogaloo

quote:

N.Y.C. Union Leaders Say Mayor’s Covid Mandate Took Them by Surprise

Mayor Bill de Blasio’s declaration on Monday that more than 300,000 municipal workers in New York City must get vaccinated against the coronavirus or agree to weekly testing was an unwelcome surprise to many of the city’s municipal unions.

Unions representing a diverse city work force of firefighters and paramedics have come out against the mayor’s mandate.

Some unions have made demands: Exemptions for workers who have antibodies after recovering from Covid-19; workplace testing paid for by the city; overtime for workers who get tested outside work.

And just about every major union has argued that the mayor cannot unilaterally impose the mandate without first negotiating with labor leaders.

“The unions are really, really aggravated that the mayor sprung this on everybody,” said Harry Nespoli, the president of the sanitation workers’ union.

But Mr. de Blasio, a Democrat in his final year in office, expressed confidence on Tuesday that the city could legally require vaccination or testing for its workers, and that his administration would sort out how to implement the mandate with union leadership.

The opposition from unions — based in part in a general reluctance to force members, many of whom are Black and Latino, to get the vaccine — is more rooted in the logistics of offering vaccines or weekly tests, and the discipline for those who do not comply. For now, it seems unlikely that it could lead to lawsuits or strikes.

The threat to public workers who are not vaccinated was reinforced on Tuesday when the city’s police commissioner, Dermot Shea, said that five unvaccinated employees of the Police Department were in the hospital with the virus.

“When you look at who is getting sick right now, every story I hear anecdotally, it’s somebody that is not vaccinated,” Mr. Shea said in a television interview on NY1. “God forbid, you put yourself or your loved ones or anyone else at risk. It’s the right thing to do.”

The Police Department appears to have one of the lowest vaccination rates among city agencies. The department has administered the vaccine to 43 percent of workers, though other officers have likely received the vaccine on their own.

The city’s largest police union, the Police Benevolent Association, has so far declined to comment on the new mandate. Other unions have made their opposition clear: The firefighters’ union said the city should allow members who test positive for antibodies to receive exemptions from the mandate. The paramedics’ union said the city was disregarding its members’ civil liberties, and asked for overtime if workers must get tested outside of work hours.

“You’re going to have people that are going to resent it,” Mr. Nespoli said, adding that his sanitation workers — many of whom got sick as they kept working during the pandemic — took specific umbrage at the mayor’s threat that those who did not comply would be put on leave without pay.

“I was out in one of my garages yesterday and they’re saying, ‘What’s going on with this — if you don’t get the shot, they’re going to send you home?’” Mr. Nespoli said.

Oren Barzilay, the president of a union of emergency medical workers that opposes the mandate, said that some of his 4,300 members have expressed concerns about side effects or complications from the vaccine and about the U.S. Food and Drug Administration not yet giving full approval to any coronavirus vaccine.

“There’s so many questions unanswered,” he said. “How’s it going to be implemented? How are we going to get them tested? What happens to us if we have a side effect? It was just a blanket statement without any action plan.”

City workers had mixed reactions. Carlotta Pope, a high school English teacher in Brooklyn, is not yet vaccinated and is waiting until she can accompany her mother, who remains skeptical of the vaccine. Ms. Pope said she found the mayor’s announcement “bully-ish,” but she has no problem being tested weekly and thinks all employees should be subject to frequent testing.

“That may seem tedious,” she said, “but it still gives people a partial choice, to not back people into a corner” on vaccines.

“I’m happy to go back into the building regardless,” she added.

Stiven Taveras, 32, a New York City Housing Authority employee, said he had not heard of the city’s new rules as he collected garbage in Upper Manhattan on Tuesday. Though he wants to get vaccinated, he has not done it yet because he’s “too lazy,” especially after working 10-hour days.

Now, he thinks he and other workers will get vaccinated by September to avoid weekly tests.

“If you show both options, people are going to choose the easy one,” he said.

Timmy, a municipal worker who declined to give his last name, said he has been “wary” about getting the vaccine and worried about complications from the shot.

“I didn’t take it and I’m not going to take it,” he said, adding that city workers should be able to decide for themselves whether they want to get vaccinated, and the prospect of weekly testing would not change his mind.

“I’ll take a test every day if I have to,” he said.

Leaders of the city’s largest municipal union, District Council 37, had insisted on Monday that the new rules had to be part of collective bargaining negotiations, emphasizing that New York was still a “union town.”

John Samuelsen, the president of the transit workers’ union, said that his members have “diverse ideas about whether or not to get the vaccine.” He has heard from workers who already had Covid-19 and do not believe they need to get vaccinated. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said that people should get vaccinated even if they already had Covid-19 because experts do not know how long protection lasts after someone recovers.

“There are transit workers that have religious reasons, health reasons — it comes from several different angles,” Mr. Samuelsen said.

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Here's a fun project: take the CDC's national forecast from July 19 which was projecting that the weekly cases by August 14 would be somewhere between 92,000 (best case scenario) and 803,000 (worst case scenario):

https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1418311164472315907

..... and then overlay that with the updated reported averaged case number from July 20 to 27:

Oops, we already blew straight through that 95% prediction interval, their worst case scenario projection was too optimistic.

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Public sector unions (firefighters, paramedics, etc) are already fighting hard against vaccine mandates even though there's exceptions and carve-outs such as weekly testing

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/27/nyregion/vaccine-mandate-nyc-unions.html

Blooster posted:

I have to say with no exaggeration that has to be the first time in my entire life that I disagreed on a union's stance on anything (other than the police union of whom I disagree with 100% of the time).

What a stupid loving move. I understand demands from workers should be part of contract negotiations but we're in the middle of a pandemic you loving imbeciles.

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Listen to these smug assholes cackling and guffawing as they try to loophole their way around a loving virus

https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/1420835241657241604

This time I'm on delta's side

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

I'm very, very, very pro-vaccination but I am not in favor of any administration claiming this power. That's like a step or two away from President Donald Trump Jr. mandating hydroxychloroquine.

Anti-vax federal workers can get hosed. You want to work for Uncle Sam? Then you follow his rules.

Platystemon posted:

Given the sheer size of Congress, the age distribution, and perhaps the distant date or inoculation, it’s pretty likely that one or more members will be hospitalized with a breakthrough infection if they keep acting like this.

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Listen to these smug assholes cackling and guffawing as they try to loophole their way around a loving virus

https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/1420835241657241604

This time I'm on delta's side

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

There is a massive percentage of hospital/medical staff across the country who remain steadfastly unvaxxed

Zero One posted:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1420879343312674817?s=21

lifetime supply of Pocky posted:

here's hoping we aren't entering into a Marek's Disease scenario...

lifetime supply of Pocky posted:

here's hoping we aren't entering into a Marek's Disease scenario...

Blooster posted:

I am trying to not be the bad guy so maybe someone here smarter than I am can reassure me: is the fact that there's constant running water at this place a good thing or bad thing for catching covid? I would assume it's way better than slides you'd find at a regular park or inside a McDonald's Playland, but for all I know coronavirus can thrive in water and my kid touching water some infected kid just touched could spread it to them; I have no idea.

Basically I will most likely jump off a tall building if one of my kids develops longcovid and lifelong complications from it. Is a water park a really, really bad idea? Or am I being too fretful?

Spinz posted:

This is the most surprising thing to me of the entire pandemic. For example these nurses they have to be seeing people dying suffering etc or hear it through the grapevine I've worked my whole life--- you know what's going on in a workplace.

And they're still refusing it that's genuinely troublesome to me. When I see statistics like 40% of people working in a healthcare system or whatever not vaxed. I'm vaxed and incredibly grateful that I am don't get me wrong.

But that remains to me the most disturbing statistic that I ever hear.

Blooster posted:

Ugh, so I feel like I am losing a battle. My wife wants to take our three young kids to a water park tomorrow. I told her it's a terrible idea, but my kids have been literally nowhere for almost two years now. My oldest said it's all she wanted for her graduation present and is being relentless about how bad she wants to go.

I put my foot down and stood firm last week when they were supposed to go to a birthday party at an indoor bounce palace place. I felt like such a ghoul but the idea of these filthy slides that some kid just went down 2 seconds earlier, coupled with being inside, made me feel too uneasy and I was able to convince my wife not to take them (she despises anti-maskers). But she's telling me that the water park should be OK because the slides aren't dry with the filth of other kids and it isn't indoors.

I am trying to not be the bad guy so maybe someone here smarter than I am can reassure me: is the fact that there's constant running water at this place a good thing or bad thing for catching covid? I would assume it's way better than slides you'd find at a regular park or inside a McDonald's Playland, but for all I know coronavirus can thrive in water and my kid touching water some infected kid just touched could spread it to them; I have no idea.

Basically I will most likely jump off a tall building if one of my kids develops longcovid and lifelong complications from it. Is a water park a really, really bad idea? Or am I being too fretful?

FlamingLiberal posted:

Gov DeathSantis is making noises about blocking Broward County from being able to mandate masks in classrooms this fall. Schools start to open in under two weeks and earlier in the year the GOP state legislature basically stripped all local control for health emergencies and gave it to the governor's office, and that law went into effect this month. Only a matter of time before he goes after the bluer counties for trying to actually do something.

Blooster posted:

I am trying to not be the bad guy so maybe someone here smarter than I am can reassure me: is the fact that there's constant running water at this place a good thing or bad thing for catching covid? I would assume it's way better than slides you'd find at a regular park or inside a McDonald's Playland, but for all I know coronavirus can thrive in water and my kid touching water some infected

Lolie posted:

Are your kids old enough to wear masks and swimming goggles?

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

are your kid vaccinated because if they aren't your wife is endangering them. if they are, she still might be.

take your eldest aside and tell her that you guys can go to the water park as soon as it's safe. I don't know how old this kid is, but help her understand that being there might hurt her, her siblings, you, her mom, or friends, or grandparents. that by dealing with not going, she's taking care of her loved ones as best that she can and that they love her for it. that you do. sow compassion. sow understanding.

I mean hell I was kind of going "well, maybe" and casually planning a trip to disney because I'm fully vaccinated but whew I am almost certainly not going now.

Platystemon posted:

“Filthy slides” are a red herring. The virus is airborne or effectively so. The problem is inhaling contaminated air far more than anything you could touch.

I’ve seen both sides of the humidity question argued.

Perhaps low humidity is good because respiratory droplets quickly evaporate and expose the bare virus, shortening its half-life.

The other side argues that high humidity is desirable because you want those droplets to stay full and heavy so they are more likely to drift to the ground or get caught in filters.

There are also physiological effects at play. It is believed that the drying out of the human respiratory tract in winter makes us more susceptible to pathogens.

The way I see it, regardless of humidity effects, the water park is especially risky because they’ll be sharing air with a lot of unvaccinated folk (anyone under twelve years of age) and it is impossible to wear a mask.

The only comfort you can take is that that millions of people do similarly ill-advised things on a daily basis and have thus far escaped infection.

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

I'm very, very, very pro-vaccination but I am not in favor of any administration claiming this power. That's like a step or two away from President Donald Trump Jr. mandating hydroxychloroquine.

Anti-vax federal workers can get hosed. You want to work for Uncle Sam? Then you follow his rules.

Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:

Explain to me like I’m 5 - aren’t vaccines mandatory for babies?

Katamari Democracy posted:

Lmfao. My job is starting next week. Requiring weekly tests regardless of you are fully vaccinated or not.

This is for a medical logistics company. And I could not be happier.

Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:

Explain to me like I’m 5 - aren’t vaccines mandatory for babies? why is this wrong for this vaccine, is it because the vaccine is too new, unproven?