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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I've met an enormous amount of people who basically view "wargaming" as "warhammer" and else is just weird and strange to them. I can't tell if it's a weird sunk cost thing And while at least with RPGs you can try something new at the cost of a pdf + maybe some extra dice + three friends willing to try something new for free, if you want to get into a new wargame everyone involved will need a bunch of money and shelf space and time and also you might suck at it.
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Jul 30, 2021 10:16
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Kurieg posted:The guys who make "If the Emperor Had a Text To Speech Device" are ceasing to make "If the emperor had a text to speech device" because games workshop is implementing some weird first party streaming service while also implementing draconian fanwork laws for things that don't involve their first party streaming service, and while TTS is almost certainly fair use, they do not have the time or money to actually fight that in court, and asking Games Workshop if they're cool with them continuing to make TTS would just result in them becoming aware of it, and probably demonetizing the channel and shutting down their patreon. So they're going to keep their style and gimmick but move onto other properties that are more welcoming to fan works. They aren't ruling out moving back to games workshop but it would require concrete evidence that they're okay with fanworks again. I'm a bit confused why they've apparently taken the stance 'if we ask GW if it's OK to make our parody series, they might find out about us!' stance though. I'm pretty sure they already know about you, guys! You're some of the most prominent 40k fan content!
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Jul 30, 2021 10:47
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Yvonmukluk posted:So GW didn't send TTS a Cease & Desist but they're pulling their content preemptively? Wouldn't they be legally in the clear until that actually comes down, since if they actually ceased when GW told them to with a C&D, then GW can't sue? simply by going off his words: he seems to be extremely afraid that it won't be a simple C&D, he simply can't risk even the little chance of disaster
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Jul 30, 2021 11:21
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Yvonmukluk posted:So GW didn't send TTS a Cease & Desist but they're pulling their content preemptively? Wouldn't they be legally in the clear until that actually comes down, since if they actually ceased when GW told them to with a C&D, then GW can't sue? In addition, they're only stopping production, the old stuff will be staying up until someone tells them it has to come down.
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Jul 30, 2021 12:16
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I think it's pretty reasonable to believe that when a corporation starts more aggressively policing fan work, if they turn their eyes to a YouTuber, they're not going to send a polite letter. They're going to claim three of your videos, and wouldn't you know that's three copyright strikes on your channel and now it gets to rot in YouTube purgatory.
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Jul 30, 2021 13:19
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btw if no one has seen this. GW specifically called out fan animations as being not allowed.quote:Fan-films and animations – individuals must not create fan films or animations based on our settings and characters. These are only to be created under licence from Games Workshop.
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Jul 30, 2021 13:32
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Hasn't GW done all this before, completely alienating its fan base? Wasn't a large part of the GW renaissance down to new management coming in with a more welcoming attitude towards fan works?
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Jul 30, 2021 13:50
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Yvonmukluk posted:So GW didn't send TTS a Cease & Desist but they're pulling their content preemptively? Wouldn't they be legally in the clear until that actually comes down, since if they actually ceased when GW told them to with a C&D, then GW can't sue? His logic was basically: GW is a siloed company, he highly doubts that the actual warhammer 40k people made this decision, it was a decision made by their Legal department. He just had a kid, and is the main breadwinner for his family. He does not feel comfortable risking his child's wellbeing on Games Workshop not being litigious.
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Jul 30, 2021 13:56
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vkeios posted:btw if no one has seen this. GW specifically called out fan animations as being not allowed. This is indefensible, and objectively wrong for the brand and the company. GW does not care, ad neither I'm sure, will their shareholders. But it's a bad choice and it's the wrong choice. Other companies, including DISNEY don't do this (well, yet).
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Jul 30, 2021 14:12
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Imagine if WotC started banning unlicensed AP streams
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Jul 30, 2021 14:19
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Comstar posted:This is indefensible, and objectively wrong for the brand and the company. GW does not care, ad neither I'm sure, will their shareholders. But it's a bad choice and it's the wrong choice. Other companies, including DISNEY don't do this (well, yet). Disney absolutely does do this if you even think of trying to monetize their trademarks.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:24
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GW was obviously letting TTS run unimpeded, then the guy shot himself in the dick and his fans blamed GW. I mean their lawyers just went after a kickstarter for IP infringement, and that was only up for only a few weeks. Does anyone think they were unaware of TTS? I'm like 80% sure this policy is only meant to be selectively enforced - likely when certain lines are crossed. That doesn't seem to be sinking in anywhere, though. It's a good policy to have when the "content" is hateful pepe memes using your brand. If they're not applying it against you, it's probably not because they haven't noticed you yet.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:37
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Yvonmukluk posted:So GW didn't send TTS a Cease & Desist but they're pulling their content preemptively? Wouldn't they be legally in the clear until that actually comes down, since if they actually ceased when GW told them to with a C&D, then GW can't sue? Basically, GW could file a takedown, the victims file a counter notification which might get the video restored and the strike removed (Youtube is not actually required to restore content taken down by a false DMCA claim). This is just the fuckery they can cop on youtube. They can be actually sued over it, and what I read here suggests that GW is the kind of lovely company who would do just that. If that happens it will last a few years and cost 30-100k+ depending on how long it goes. For small creators, this is just far too much money and it doesn't matter that they can get most of their costs back if they win because they can't afford to go that deep in the hole. They might be able to get it dismissed under an anti-SLAPP but if that doesn't work they are hosed and likely bankrupt. And it will still cost a bunch of money.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:43
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So this guy should just risk his livelihood and his family's livelihood on games workshop continuing to allow him to exist?
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Jul 30, 2021 14:44
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moths posted:GW was obviously letting TTS run unimpeded, then the guy shot himself in the dick and his fans blamed GW.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:44
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Kurieg posted:So this guy should just risk his livelihood and his family's livelihood on games workshop continuing to allow him to exist? He'd be doing that by hitching his livelihood to any IP he doesn't own (or public domain.) E: Terrible Opinions posted:Oh don't worry this policy that explicitly says we will get rid of your source of income won't be used against you. We just need it to be standing policy for us to be able to do you in at any time. Yes? That's what he had instead of a license, and it was apparently working fine. moths fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 14:48
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What did the Arch Warhammer guy actually do that was controversial?
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Jul 30, 2021 14:52
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moths posted:He'd be doing that by hitching his livelihood to any IP he doesn't own (or public domain.) It was working fine, but then they changed things earlier this year, and are implementing a competing content service. I wouldn't be comfortable skating on like nothing had changed either.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:56
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Halloween Jack posted:What did the Arch Warhammer guy actually do that was controversial? Be a literal Nazi.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:57
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He's a white nationalist who regularly makes videos about diversity being bad or lies about real world politics particularly right wing terrorism. He ironically WOULD NOT be impacted by this policy at all because he doesn't make fan animations or anything of similar content. He's one of those channels that just talked about warhammer and warhammer related media a lot. So it can't even be said the new policy was in response to Arch.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:57
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Halloween Jack posted:What did the Arch Warhammer guy actually do that was controversial? Like the others have said, he's a straight up fascist. He's pretty much the Jeremy Hambly/TheQuartering of Warhammer: someone so repugnant the generally "apolitical" parent company he's hitched his social media branding to has specifically singled him out to ban and remove from the community.
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Jul 30, 2021 15:01
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This absolutely isn’t a rule change about him, though, since…well, he got his own targeted message some time ago saying he was no longer welcome specifically.
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Jul 30, 2021 15:02
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moths posted:GW was obviously letting TTS run unimpeded, then the guy shot himself in the dick and his fans blamed GW. Note that the policy has an e-mail address to send infringements to, and every single category has a clause about not hurting the reputation or goodwill of the brand. So I say tell the infringement team about any fascist 40K memes you see. Worst case scenario, you give them a sufficiently busy inbox that more benign fanworks have an incrementally greater chance of flying under the radar, due to all the noise on the radar about fascist memes. Best case scenario, some chuds get sued. (Fash will almost certainly use the e-mail to send in bad-faith reports targeting creators they dislike, so not doing this in effect lets the fash send up this flack about their targets without pushing back.)
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Jul 30, 2021 15:29
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I think arch was a wake-up call that the "community" was outside of their control. Kurieg posted:It was working fine, but then they changed things earlier this year, and are implementing a competing content service. Yeah the new policy definitely shook things up, but I think if TTS (or anyone) wasn't in the first wave of takedowns they were probably in the clear. Nobody would mistake TTS for official content, and that seems like one of the primary intents here. To use a rough analogy, this reminds me of those "no air freshener" laws. Plenty of folks drive aound with air fresheners on the rear-view mirror and never get pulled over. There's no law against ACAB and Grateful Dead / pot leaf bumper stickers. But cover your car with drug culture and anti-establishment stickers, and you'll absolutely get stopped "for the air freshener."
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Jul 30, 2021 15:31
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moths posted:I think arch was a wake-up call that the "community" was outside of their control moths posted:Yeah the new policy definitely shook things up, but I think if TTS (or anyone) wasn't in the first wave of takedowns they were probably in the clear. Nobody would mistake TTS for official content, and that seems like one of the primary intents here.
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Jul 30, 2021 15:51
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What makes you think explaining is defending?
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Jul 30, 2021 16:02
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moths posted:GW was obviously letting TTS run unimpeded, then the guy shot himself in the dick and his fans blamed GW.
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Jul 30, 2021 16:07
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moths posted:What makes you think explaining is defending?
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Jul 30, 2021 16:09
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Terrible Opinions posted:This whole convo started with you saying it was unreasonable for someone to think GW might ruin them for no reason, as though that wasn't a perfectly reasonable fear. Dude built his house on someone else's property, that's always going to be a threat. What I said was that if they didn't take him down in the YEARS he's lived there, or the week since the announcement, they're aren't likely to do it soon. They went after an AoS KS that stepped on their IP instantly. He has a lot of other options. Her could have changed format to another game or original characters, or he could draw his own version of the characters he's lampooning. But he didn't - presumably because GW's IP is central to his product, and I think that's the elephant in this room. It's hosed that you spun "I'm trying to describe this" into "I support this (and also police harassment.)" I don't know how that fits into this discussion.
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Jul 30, 2021 16:24
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moths posted:He has a lot of other options. Her could have changed format to another game or original characters, or he could draw his own version of the characters he's lampooning. But he didn't - presumably because GW's IP is central to his product, and I think that's the elephant in this room.
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Jul 30, 2021 16:28
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Yeah, he's changing to his own characters and/or IPs that are more open to fanworks. And he specifically mentions the Stellaris video they did as something that shows that there's a future for them doing that. I have no idea why you're being hostile to the guy realizing that there's a problem, and has been a problem, and course correcting rather than continuing on because "Sure there was always a problem but it hasn't blown up on him yet."
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Jul 30, 2021 16:32
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Oh, I couldn't make it through the video and was going off a summary I read. Good for him, then.
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Jul 30, 2021 17:14
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I posted a summary upthread dude including what he's planning on doing in the future
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Jul 30, 2021 17:25
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To be 100% clear, dude made a parody series of youtubes, which was and remains protected by fair use laws, he is not doing anything illegal. If he made a bad choice, it was choosing to act as though his legal rights would be protected by either the platform he was using, or by the legal system in general, without jeopardy of a ruinously expensive lawsuit. And that's a condemnation of our legal and political systems, not of his actions.
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Jul 30, 2021 17:48
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Honestly, the modern concept of intellectual property is extremely unusual in light of how creativity has worked since the first hominin started flaking bits off of rocks. There wasn't really much of a concept of it until after the printing press was invented and it became really easy to copy books. Before then, things like ideas weren't considered to belong to a single person in particular, and what we consider fanwork was just regular artwork. While I wouldn't strongly argue against letting people have financial control over their own work these days, it definitely goes against the way that creativity works in humans. This isn't really an argument against much I just like taking the opportunity to babble about fanwork 
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Jul 30, 2021 18:20
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Dude had a sword of Damocles hanging over his head from the start despite being in the right. GW stated they were investing heavily in scissors so he decided to go sleep somewhere else. This is not weird.
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Jul 30, 2021 18:39
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If was managing GW's legal and PR, I'd probably make a goodwill effort to reach out to the TTS people and try to work out some sort of legal agreement. Maybe a an actual license, or maybe just some sort of acknowledgement that TTS is a fair-use parody work. Just something to diffuse the situation and keep GW looking reasonable.
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Jul 30, 2021 19:04
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Terrible Opinions posted:Then why create a policy that wouldn't even remotely apply to him? GW have already made their opinions on the Youtuber formerly known as Arch Warhammer clear. And that's that they can't prevent him making bad lore videos, being a terrible person, or even bringing the ways he's terrible into his lore videos. But that they can and will prevent him using any part of their IP in the branding of his channel. Which means he's now just Arch and had to change his logo.
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Jul 30, 2021 19:48
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Splicer posted:Dude had a sword of Damocles hanging over his head from the start despite being in the right. GW stated they were investing heavily in scissors so he decided to go sleep somewhere else. This is not weird. I think even calling it a "Sword of Damocles" is looking unfairly negatively on him. GW have installed the Sword over his bed and are loudly "ahem-aheming" while flipping through the latest issue of Scissors Monthly.
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Jul 30, 2021 19:49
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neonchameleon posted:GW have already made their opinions on the Youtuber formerly known as Arch Warhammer clear. And that's that they can't prevent him making bad lore videos, being a terrible person, or even bringing the ways he's terrible into his lore videos. But that they can and will prevent him using any part of their IP in the branding of his channel. Which means he's now just Arch and had to change his logo. Really it just seems to like a way to fully consume projects like the Astartes animation without having to reach out to them individually like they ended up doing for Astartes. A more aggressive DM's Guild. Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 19:57
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