|
thank god that so many of you dumb motherfuckers got nothing to do but elaborately craft new exclusions for classifications of genocide because apparently the hill worth dying on these days is making sure to stand up for rigorously dictatorial countries because they self-identify as communist and apparently now it's really important to carve out very specific exclusions for the definition of genocide to spare their government's national image bad press for doing genocide poo pooNeurolimal posted:I think it more accurately fits the definition of ethnic cleansing (which can constitute attempts to fundamentally change an ethnic culture) rather than genocide; to my knowledge China is not trying to eradicate its Uyghur population, rather the culture that it views as dangerous (being a reaction to funded Uyghur insurgents, making it akin to WW2 japanese internment camps). the indian residential schools in the US and Canada, which were genocide, did their genocide not by trying to eradicate the indians but by keeping their children in camps designed to forcefully eradicate their culture and make them into obedient subclasses, as part of a genocidal campaign of extermination again the only correct action is to observe and acknowledge these events as genocide, and the simpering moron action is to reclassify this as "not actually genocide" because it is necessary to rewrite what china is doing as also not actually genocide
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:37 |
|
|
China Megathread - You can have a little genocide
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 00:45
|
|
|
breathlessly rushing into CanPol to explain that the residential schools were merely cultural genocide and comparing them to the shoah is nothing but communist agitprop
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 01:42
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:breathlessly rushing into CanPol to explain that the residential schools were merely cultural genocide and comparing them to the shoah is nothing but communist agitprop Of course the shoah was *just* internment camps, re-education, forced labor, and sterilization right up until the Nazis realized they were losing the war and the camps weren't going to be around long enough to finish the slow-burn genocide.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 13:35
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:Because a totalitarian dictatorship that is squeezing every drop of authoritarianism out of technology such as the social credit system and other advance forms of monitoring of its citizens is the last thing the world needs for it to have even more advanced chips to potentially make the next world revolutionary technological leapfrog advance with such as with AI that would make its ability to assert control at home and abroad that much easier. Additionally more advance technology means a more advanced military that might be able to wrest control of the region away from the pax Americana that is responsible for the world's longest uninterrupted period of global growth, peace and prosperity. The day China can pose a credible military threat to the United States is potentially the day the world enters a new dark age as technoauthoritarianism becomes the dominant global paradigm. You do realise that the US has constantly been waging war on numerous weaker states during the so called "pax Americana" right? I mean even by going by your own metric, China is a much more stable and less threatening state to the global order...
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 14:49
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:I dont really post in here too much because it seems to attract a lot of annoying (and, dare I say, gullible) USNews types, but at the risk of being thrown into the ban blender: I think it more accurately fits the definition of ethnic cleansing (which can constitute attempts to fundamentally change an ethnic culture) rather than genocide; to my knowledge China is not trying to eradicate its Uyghur population, rather the culture that it views as dangerous (being a reaction to funded Uyghur insurgents, making it akin to WW2 japanese internment camps). A sin on par with when Bush ethnically cleansed Iraq (with the similar goal of reducing ethnic strife), or Israel's treatment of Jerusalem palestinian culture & landmarks (although, to my knowledge, Uyghurs who visit the US to do scathing interviews are still considered chinese citizens and allowed to return). Jesus Christ you guys
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
have people in this thread considered going outside and talking to a literal human anytime in the last few days? the last few pages are brutal to read. you keep doing you, china D&D thread. don't ever stop posting your thoughts online (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
thatfatkid posted:You do realise that the US has constantly been waging war on numerous weaker states during the so called "pax Americana" right? Consider for a moment that when posting on a discussion forum like this, even in a subforum which values long form debate and discussion, it isn't particularly feasible to include every disclaimer and assurance of nuance. Specifically, I don't ever mean to suggest that the 'Pax Americana' is 'great and perfect', but something more akin to Sir Winston Churchill's iconic quote of "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all others that have been tried". Presumably this means I don't disagree on some level with you that bad things have happened. Another way of looking at is if I were a Roman back in 5 CE the Pax Romana is probably responsible for a similar relative level of peace and prosperity for the average Roman for such a long time that unless you were highly educated it would seem like all of history that has ever occurred has only been Roma. My point basically is less that "USA good" but more that (Lionel Hutz voice) "USA better...?". Casually speaking when I talk about the history of American foreign policy in the post-Bretton Woods world order, I don't deny that the US has engaged with army conflict or unonsciousable interference in the internal affairs of various nations, however: Any conflict the US has found itself have varied considerably in as lay persons, their imperative, from easily justified interventions such as Korea to injustifiable balderdash such as Iraq. Noteably Vietnam is a complete and utter tragedy and travesty (although I note that China *did* invade them in order to help the Khmer Rouge, which is not a great look not gunna lie) becuase Ho Chi Minh loved America, wanted to modernize Vietnam taking its cues from American democracy, and this got thrown in the trash can by fools. Such as it is, this isn't really the thread to litigate every post WW2 (and pre-WW2) conflicts. Unfortunately when it comes to state actors there is no such thing as a moral actor. Countries like the USSR who smashed in fascist faces also were culpable for consorting with Nazi Germany in partitioning Poland. Kremlin denials to the contrary not withstanding in the modern era. My intent to reiterate is not to minimize the achievements of the USSR in steamrolling Berlin, and not to minimize the tragedy that their occupation of Eastern Europe would wrought. You need to simply step back (but not one step back,  ) and consider the bigger picture.Basically, you only really need to look at my past posts, especially back around 2018 when I was much more patient and understanding with China, and in fact I don't think it was all that long ago I was more openly "pro-China" in my arguments. Arguments where I would quite willingly go to bat and give the benefit to the doubt to Chinese actions and policy. Like when just recently in this thread where one poster suggested that Chinese PLAN carrier ops are nothing to write home about and I am instead like "Hey well actually, China's military has made impressive progress in carrier operations". Look, I'm being fair as I can be. Sinophobia has no place in any interesting discussion about the People's Republic of China, there's lots of fun and interesting things about China and a lot of things they are doing that are really super neat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 22:52
|
|
|
I was much more hopeful that China was heading in a good direction a decade ago before Xi took power. But that guy is dictator now, and every decision he has made has been to move towards confrontation rather than cooperation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 22:58
|
|
|
How are u posted:I was much more hopeful that China was heading in a good direction a decade ago before Xi took power. But that guy is dictator now, and every decision he has made has been to move towards confrontation rather than cooperation. Yeah, I thought it was really impressive that they seemed to learn the right lessons from Mao and had instituted de facto term limits and an official policy to groom younger generations of successors to seamlessly take over. Xi doing away with that is disappointing, akin to the end of Khrushchev's thaw when Brezhnev took over.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2021 23:06
|
|
|
 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 04:29
|
|
|
How are u posted:I was much more hopeful that China was heading in a good direction a decade ago before Xi took power. But that guy is dictator now, and every decision he has made has been to move towards confrontation rather than cooperation. Xi is the entirety of the problem with where China is today. Once your elected leader proclaims himself ruler for life and has literally declared loving lebensraum and opened genocide camps, there's no easy way back for a country until that person has been removed and all their entrenched cronies with them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 05:41
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:Xi is the entirety of the problem with where China is today. He also seems pretty stupid. Wolf Warrior diplomacy is basically just pissing away all of China's soft power globally just to impress domestic nationalists, which is... yikes. "Hey Chen, did you see that our ambassador to Guatemala called the Prime Minister a stupid boy on Twitter? gently caress yeah!!! Now I am not angry about having no wife and no potable water!" It's Brad Parscale tier strategery.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 06:01
|
|
|
I worry over the safety of the Falkland Islands.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 06:15
|
|
|
Franks Happy Place posted:He also seems pretty stupid. Wolf Warrior diplomacy is basically just pissing away all of China's soft power globally just to impress domestic nationalists, which is... yikes. It's the tentpole dictator for life problem though, by making yourself unremovable legitimate avenues for challenging you go poof. To consolidate support (and avoid getting murdered) you find internal and external enemies to focus on. With your self-made legitimacy you can then intimidate, imprison and execute eventual challengers with impunity keeping your reign secure. China is making enemies across almost all continents at incredible speed these last years, but this in turn further justifies that Xi is the irreplaceable strongman China needs who can't be questioned. So it's not stupidity, it's just that political stability now supersedes all other goals. What's terrifying about Xi is that unlike say Putin or Erdogan, his options for creating a legacy have consequences that dwarf the other two by magnitudes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 07:55
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:Xi is the entirety of the problem with where China is today. What Region of China is Lebensraum in this post meant to refer to?
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 12:14
|
|
|
Presumably the parts where the indigenous population has been dwarfed by mandarin-speaking Han who settled there. But it's totally different than the accursed west's colonization because.. they didn't take boats to get there?
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 12:46
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:I worry over the safety of the Falkland Islands. Safety from what?
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 12:55
|
|
|
Gort posted:Safety from what? Britain, duh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 13:06
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:Xi is the entirety of the problem with where China is today. Did Han Chinese Colonization of Tibet only start under Xi? I was under the impression Han Chinese settling in Tibet started before Xi.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 13:21
|
|
|
Private Speech posted:Britain, duh. No need to worry about that, the British empire is descending, and when it finally it's last isles fall back into the seas from whence they came, the mighty Falkland Islands empire shall rise to take it's place. Probably. I guess. I mean why not. Enough empires have come from weird out of the way places, so that may as well just happen. [this prediction is based off just about as many facts as most foreign policy future prediction articles, and about as likely to happen.]
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 13:43
|
|
|
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Did Han Chinese Colonization of Tibet only start under Xi? I was under the impression Han Chinese settling in Tibet started before Xi. Long before, which is not an excuse any more than modern white american fash going "I didn't vote for Andrew Jackson!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 14:51
|
|
|
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Did Han Chinese Colonization of Tibet only start under Xi? I was under the impression Han Chinese settling in Tibet started before Xi. China's been in Tibet since the 50s. I was actually surprised it was that early. I thought it wasn't until the 70s they really kicked things off, but then I realised I was thinking of their foray into Vietnam. And later ones into Bhutan and Nepal and India, etc. Tiny little bites, over and over again. And every square inch, once taken, has always been part of China. Historically. So it's only fair they take it back. The big issue right now is, of course, the South China Sea. The eleven/nine dash line has been around for over half a century but only Xi has tried to make it real. Well, I say big issue, but Xi's policy of Han supremacy and having them spreading out into areas inconveniently already populated by other people is nothing to take lightly despite the best efforts of the 50 cent army. Private Speech posted:Britain, duh. Yeah, sorry, that reference may have passed by most people who aren't old farts. To try and put some context to that remark - in the early 1980s, Argentina President Leopoldo Galtieri faced a lovely economy and massive unpopularity to his military rule. So, looking at a map, he saw a tiny speck in the ocean next to Argentina that was ruled by Britain but "should have" been part of Argentina. Naturally, in the name of justice, he invaded. The boost a war gives to a country's economy and presidential popularity, I'm sure, never entered his head. Meanwhile, in Britain, Prime Minister Thatcher was also facing a lovely economy and massive unpopularity. Then some drat fool bastard went and handed her a war on a silver platter. It was small, far away and had more sheep than people and more penguins than sheep. But the jingo drums would be beaten and everyone would forget all the troubles at home. Now, all that's background for this post: Franks Happy Place posted:He also seems pretty stupid. Wolf Warrior diplomacy is basically just pissing away all of China's soft power globally just to impress domestic nationalists, which is... yikes. Yes, Xi is a bloody fool, but sadly xenophobia and hardman posturing works. It really does make people forget about how bad things are at home. Well, unless you lose. Galtieri was removed pretty quickly after his forces got kicked of the island. If we're lucky, it will only take one wrong step by Xi before he gets the figurative noose. But until then, he's going to hurt a hell of a lot of people to keep people from looking at what's right under their noses. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Aug 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:Consider for a moment that when posting on a discussion forum like this, even in a subforum which values long form debate and discussion, it isn't particularly feasible to include every disclaimer and assurance of nuance. Specifically, I don't ever mean to suggest that the 'Pax Americana' is 'great and perfect', but something more akin to Sir Winston Churchill's iconic quote of "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all others that have been tried". Presumably this means I don't disagree on some level with you that bad things have happened. Another way of looking at is if I were a Roman back in 5 CE the Pax Romana is probably responsible for a similar relative level of peace and prosperity for the average Roman for such a long time that unless you were highly educated it would seem like all of history that has ever occurred has only been Roma. My point basically is less that "USA good" but more that (Lionel Hutz voice) "USA better...?". Two things can be bad at once...just because China is committing genocide doesn't mean you have to excuse, downplay, or qualify America's war crimes .
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 15:21
|
|
|
Starks posted:Two things can be bad at once...just because China is committing genocide doesn't mean you have to excuse, downplay, or qualify America's war crimes . I assume everyone agrees with this- the vast majority of disagreement is from (american mostly lol) crowds stanning the like of Comrade Al-Asad, friend of the masses. Like hell, it's barely possible to say "tankie" in 2021 without a white westerner insisting that word was invented by The Libs and not by communists.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 15:43
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:I assume everyone agrees with this- the vast majority of disagreement is from (american mostly lol) crowds stanning the like of Comrade Al-Asad, friend of the masses. I mean, the person I quoted literally posted "USA better", so not everyone agrees with it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 15:49
|
|
|
Starks posted:I mean, the person I quoted literally posted "USA better", so not everyone agrees with it. What I actually wrote posted:My point basically is less that "USA good" but more that (Lionel Hutz voice) "USA better...?". Uuh, literally I did not. You're arguing with a strawman here. There aren't even the same number of letters between the quotation marks!
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 18:45
|
|
|
Uh anyway, it looks like Biden has decided to make an open offer of a sort of diet asylum (so far) for Hong Kong residents.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like hell, it's barely possible to say "tankie" in 2021 without a white westerner insisting that word was invented by The Libs and not by communists. "Tankie" is also a bit broad of a word nowadays because it encompasses almost any person that supports former or existing Communist countries and even gets thrown as a general insult for Marxist-Leninists or anyone that supports non-US aligned countries. So it covers hyper pro-CCP people as well as ML pro-Stalin and Mao types that oppose the CCP as it is now. Or you could get called a tankie for supporting Assad or Putin. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 19:23
|
|
|
no hay camino posted:So it covers hyper pro-CCP people as well as ML pro-Stalin and Mao types that oppose the CCP as it is now. Or you could get called a tankie for supporting Assad or Putin. It seems like all of those are bad things to support.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 21:23
|
|
|
no hay camino posted:"Tankie" is also a bit broad of a word nowadays because it encompasses almost any person that supports former or existing Communist countries and even gets thrown as a general insult for Marxist-Leninists or anyone that supports non-US aligned countries. So it covers hyper pro-CCP people as well as ML pro-Stalin and Mao types that oppose the CCP as it is now. Or you could get called a tankie for supporting Assad or Putin. The examples here all seem like brutal authoritarians who did or are still doing awful imperialist things including (aside from Putin depending on how you view Chechnya?) actually sending in tanks to kill the proles. So it doesn't really seem like a stretch to call self-proclaimed leftists backing them tankies. Though admittedly, compared to the classic examples of people tankies shill for, Putin does a comparatively poor job of pretending to support socialism in any way while Assad is the head of one of the few surviving 1940's fascist parties. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Aug 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2021 02:53
|
|
|
Apparently China is looking into thorium molten salt reactors for clean energy (and because of far lower water requirements than any other mass power generation) possibly as part of a push for Northwest industrial expansion.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
They've been working on thorium generators for decades.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2021 20:20
|
|
|
So has everyone else, but having a prototype up and running next month is something, if true. And pursuing MSR specifically for the low water requirements to industrialize the Northwest is something else, if true, but I'm not sure how much of that is external speculation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2021 20:23
|
|
|
does. does china have an underproduction problem? like they already are the world's factory, seems more that they have a distribution problem.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2021 20:26
|
|
|
The optimistic fluffy take is that they're making a big push to decarbonize their economy. The pessimistic weltpolitik take is that the industrialization of Northwest China is more to do with solidifying dynamics in the far Northwest than factories in Shaanxi.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2021 21:03
|
|
|
Regardless of motive, if they can get these reactors deployed it might set a standard for other countries to follow which would be great. I keep hearing hype that these molten salt reactors are going to revolutionize nuclear power, and one of the things the Chinese can do well is fast-track development of big infrastructure projects.
America Inc. fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Aug 7, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2021 00:30
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:So has everyone else, but having a prototype up and running next month is something, if true. And pursuing MSR specifically for the low water requirements to industrialize the Northwest is something else, if true, but I'm not sure how much of that is external speculation. Also I recall thorium salt reactors being a hot topic around here like a decade ago, so reveal your SA account Xi!
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2021 01:56
|
|
|
Warbadger posted:The examples here all seem like brutal authoritarians who did or are still doing awful imperialist things including (aside from Putin depending on how you view Chechnya?) wait what? the populace of eastern Ukraine would like a word double nine posted:does. does china have an underproduction problem? no but they do have to import a shitton of oil. energy security is important, and it's a win-win if you can combine increased independence with a reduction in carbon emissions. bonus points if you get to turn around and then export reactor tech along with contracts to your firms to build the same things elsewhere
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2021 02:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:37 |
|
|
CMYK BLYAT! posted:wait what? the populace of eastern Ukraine would like a word I limited it to the more narrow interpretation of having murdered their own people with tanks rather than murdering their neighbors people with tanks while doing the imperialism thing. But yeah, I personally agree with you. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Aug 7, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2021 03:01
|
|