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Based on what has been said so far Markets seems like a much better replacement for sphere of influence excited for tomorrows update
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Aug 4, 2021 16:02
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Wiz posted:Baden and Nassau either joined in 1835 or early 1836 IIRC. it turns out that only this forum could produce the necessary intellectual means for this game to happen. Each and every  from a v1/v2 player is now playing a part in determining the in-game market systemEdgar Allen Ho posted:Let's talk about the real poo poo: you made mostly good choices but the Ottomans should be red, not tan. And what the absolute gently caress is up with green Two Sicilies? excel-accounting-light-green is the good ottoman color. Now, two sicilies has been green in v2, but they should be a lighter shade of yellow, of course
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Aug 4, 2021 16:21
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whenever a country goes socialist their country should immediately change to some shade of red
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Aug 4, 2021 16:25
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yellow prussia or riot
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Aug 4, 2021 16:34
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also what if you could forcibly change the color of a country on the map as a concession during peace treaties. imagine the potential
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Aug 4, 2021 16:47
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It's a bit unsettling to me how much paradox players care about prussia's map color
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Aug 4, 2021 16:55
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I find it unsettling that you don't.
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Aug 4, 2021 16:58
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Meme prussian space marine fans unsettle me more than wanting it to be Prussia-coloured tbh. The preisch deserve to get a ton of military buffs by virtue of being prussian, based on two wars ever, but any tag that isn't suitably white and pickelhaube'd gets mil buffs it's woke sjw nonsense.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:07
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Meme prussian space marine fans unsettle me more than wanting it to be Prussia-coloured tbh. The preisch deserve to get a ton of military buffs by virtue of being prussian, based on two wars ever, but any tag that isn't suitably white and pickelhaube'd gets mil buffs it's woke sjw nonsense. I don't understand the 2nd sentence at all, but I agree with the first.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:09
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Did Prussia get inherent army buffs? I know they got a few extra technologies at start and that really good research focus but I have no idea if there's some background calculation where 'if = Prussian then +5 Attack' or whatever. I hope not cause that's lame. They shouldn't be yellow though.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:53
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Make Prussia blue, but if they lose a battle they turn yellow.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:54
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DaysBefore posted:Did Prussia get inherent army buffs? I know they got a few extra technologies at start and that really good research focus but I have no idea if there's some background calculation where 'if = Prussian then +5 Attack' or whatever. I hope not cause that's lame. they do in eu4, their guys are insane in that game. they can easily win battles against like, 1.5x their numbers. unrelated, but if you want a good laugh go in wiz's twitter replies and look at all the people smugly going "It's Austria-Hungary" in response to that post lol.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:57
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creamcorn posted:unrelated, but if you want a good laugh go in wiz's twitter replies and look at all the people smugly going "It's Austria-Hungary" in response to that post lol. They're all by the same guy lol
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Aug 4, 2021 18:01
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Meme prussian space marine fans unsettle me more than wanting it to be Prussia-coloured tbh. The preisch deserve to get a ton of military buffs by virtue of being prussian, based on two wars ever, but any tag that isn't suitably white and pickelhaube'd gets mil buffs it's woke sjw nonsense. Yeah that part is far weirder. And the military buffs are a funny thing, since it's extremely cyclical; Paradox games tend to treat is as something innate to them, but it only starts with the reforms of Fredrich the Great in the late 18th century, and Prussian reforms during the 19th century that produced such success again were largely a reaction to how badly their asses got kicked during the Napoleonic era. Prussia should def be Prussian blue though, it's too goddamned pretty a color not to use it.
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Aug 4, 2021 18:14
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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yikes! posted:It's a bit unsettling to me how much paradox players care about prussia's map color sometimes Prussia is garishly ugly, sometimes it’s a really nice shade of yellow
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Aug 4, 2021 18:18
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I get the culturally-tied military stuff in like CK2 as an abstract way to represent how different peoples fought i.e. anglo-saxons rocking shieldwalls against Arab horse cavalry skirmishers or w/ever but anything beyond that (already huge) time period is a bit much
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Aug 4, 2021 18:32
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DaysBefore posted:Did Prussia get inherent army buffs? I know they got a few extra technologies at start and that really good research focus but I have no idea if there's some background calculation where 'if = Prussian then +5 Attack' or whatever. I hope not cause that's lame. outside of the good tech school and getting some good generals, I don't think so
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Aug 4, 2021 18:38
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In Vicky 2, I think they start with a few more miltechs than everyone else and that's mostly it. In EU4 they get a special government form that is very dumb and strong
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Aug 4, 2021 18:41
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VanSandman posted:The 1830 Revolution in France also took place over about half a week too. I have no idea how you'd gamify that. Pass reforms to become HM government or fight the revolution -- and face potential full republicanism. Basically how it happened irl.
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Aug 4, 2021 18:49
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Enjoy posted:They're all by the same guy lol Specifically they're by a guy whose bio describes him as a "professional Indie Grand Strategy Game Developer from Hungary", so lmao
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Aug 4, 2021 18:51
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Vasukhani posted:Pass reforms to become HM government or fight the revolution -- and face potential full republicanism. Basically how it happened irl. A full four years of republic, then more liberal monarchy
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Aug 4, 2021 18:58
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yikes! posted:In Vicky 2, I think they start with a few more miltechs than everyone else and that's mostly it. In EU4 they get a special government form that is very dumb and strong Well in Vicky 2 they also get that Prussian General Staff decision that buffs their military for like 25 years, unless that’s unique to HPM/HFM.
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Aug 4, 2021 19:00
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1836 onwards is really one of the times when Prussia does enjoy an honest to god advantage over its neighbors thanks to the existence of the General Staff (est. 1806 to figure out why Napoleon keeps rocking them), which was mostly meritocratic and took itself and training of the officers very seriously. It takes a very long time for the rest of Europe's militaries (with the exception of France) to get over their aristocratic norms and copy it, I think in mostly places it takes the Prussian victory over France in '71 to shock everyone into taking action.
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Aug 4, 2021 19:04
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disjoe posted:Well in Vicky 2 they also get that Prussian General Staff decision that buffs their military for like 25 years, unless that’s unique to HPM/HFM. It's in vanilla. 
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Aug 4, 2021 19:09
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Oh huh, it's been so long since I played Prussia I guess I forgot. That's a nice buff but not gamebreaking imo. I also like that it's a temporary buff a lot.
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Aug 4, 2021 19:20
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Interesting seeing markets don't necessarily have to abide by national borders. Makes sense, you could use that to model stuff like European spheres of influence in China. What's the deal with Nice being part of France's market in 1836? I know Sardinia-Piedmont eventually returned that area to France, but I'm not particularly well-versed in that bit of history and a quick perusal of wikipedia isn't giving me any idea why Nice would be connected to France in this way in 1836.
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Aug 5, 2021 04:15
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This already seems just much more understandable than sphere of influence
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Aug 5, 2021 04:51
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creamcorn posted:they do in eu4, their guys are insane in that game. they can easily win battles against like, 1.5x their numbers. Prussia in EU4 via their National Ideas: +0.5 yearly army tradition (pretty strong, easy to farm to 100) -10% aggressive expansion impact (meh). -10% stability cost (meh) +1 tolerance of the true faith (meh) -1% yearly army tradition decay (Excellent when paired with the Yearly +0.5!) +20% moral of armies (!!!) +10% noble loyalty equilibrium (This is alright) +20% Infantry combat ability (!!!) +25% national manpower (decent) -10% recruitment time (decent) -5% development cost (alright) +5% discipline (pretty good). However Prussia usually starts the game as Brandenburg, or Teutonic Order which both have completely different ideas until its formed; the Prussian government type is only effective when Militerism is at 100% which is hard to do when you're really large unless you spend a lot of military points to keep it up, which the gauranteed +3 military monarch points doesn't really offset. So prussia is strong but in context a lot of things have to go right for them to get large enough for these modifiers to become insurmountable; and are more designed for Prussia to punch above its weight class in games where presumably Austria, the OE, France, GB and "Russia" are all likely to be much larger and stronger due to better expansion or colonization opportunities. Many other nations get similarish bonuses just not as good for purely military oriented gameplay; and it takes a while to unlock them all, mid 1600's or so? The Teutonic Order gets +10% infantry combat ability and +5% discipline and for early game a +10% cavalry combat ability. The Manchu get +15% Army Moral and Manchu Banner Infantry which also get +5% discipline and used to be Necrons that reinforced for free (now they reinforce at 25% of the manpower cost of a regular unit!). Prussia is extremely strong in capable hands but lets not forget that they're not meant to unite Germany in 1550; they're supposed to be a ~50 province regional power who can swing wars, not fight all of Europe by themselves and many other nations get some of the same kinds of buffs they get. I do think it would be better though if design typically moved away from such a pre-determined system tied to tags/culture groups and instead was something more like CK3 where you picked and choose traits overtime by paying a sort of prestige cost and you could go down different trees for different bonuses.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:25
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From what I understand about Victoria 3 so far I think that "moving away from pre-determined systems tied to tag" is basically what they are going for - where the starting conditions of various nations may put them in stronger or weaker positions, but there are no inherent national buffs/debuffs that would just give them an arbitrary advantage throughout the whole game.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:44
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The Cheshire Cat posted:From what I understand about Victoria 3 so far I think that "moving away from pre-determined systems tied to tag" is basically what they are going for - where the starting conditions of various nations may put them in stronger or weaker positions, but there are no inherent national buffs/debuffs that would just give them an arbitrary advantage throughout the whole game. Yeah, that's why I referred to CK3 as it does seem to be their design philosophy moving forward, which is good.
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Aug 5, 2021 07:03
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Raenir Salazar posted:Prussia is extremely strong in capable hands but lets not forget that they're not meant to unite Germany in 1550; they're supposed to be a ~50 province regional power who can swing wars, not fight all of Europe by themselves and many other nations get some of the same kinds of buffs they get. Definitely agree that it should not be deterministic like it has been in EU, but even a non-deterministic system would probably be well served by having the national institutions of a country get diluted as the country expands, just as an anti-snowball thing. Actually, how about having something akin to estates, but it's the institutions of a given province? If the Trade Tradition dominates your provinces (weighted for development), then associated national ideas are more powerful. This would boost minor-to-medium powers who can laser focus to create a country centered around a specific thing, while larger countries might need to develop into their focus over time. This would also be a way to guide the AI into choosing the right national ideas, by having it favor ideas that will get boosted more by the provinces it controls. So like, England is likely to start focusing on Maritime Tradition-stuff because of its many coastal provinces, but if it manages to eat France then the balance would shift heavily towards more of an army focus due to the level of French development that's not strongly tied to Maritime Tradition.
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Aug 5, 2021 08:18
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/victoria-3-dev-diary-9-national-markets.1484917/
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Aug 5, 2021 17:06
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So, do I understand it correctly that there is no international market? I am guessing though countries can trade with each other somehow.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:25
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quote:Astute observers familiar with previous Victorias will note there are no goods stockpiles involved in this system. In the predecessor game a single unit of a goods would be produced, sold, traded, perhaps refined, stored, and ultimately consumed, with global price development determined by how many units are inserted into or removed from the world’s total supply. In Victoria 3, a single unit of goods is produced and immediately sold at a price determined by how many consumers are willing to buy it at the moment of production. When this happens prices shift right away along with actual supply and demand, and trade between markets is modelled using Buy and Sell Orders. This more open economic model is both more responsive to sudden economic shifts and less prone to mysterious systemic failures where all the world’s cement might end up locked inside a warehouse in Missouri. Any stockpiling in the system is represented as cash (for example through a building’s Cash Reserves or a country’s Treasury) or as Pop Wealth, which forms the basis for Standard of Living and determines their level of consumption. It's interesting what they're saying here because if I understand it properly, the V3 economy is more similar to a modern-day economy than it is to the 19th century!
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Aug 5, 2021 17:37
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The lack of stockpiles is interesting, but it seems like there are quite a few more options to import/get goods that you are short on so I think it'll work out. Stockpiles does seem like a huge amount of complexity for something that ultimately isn't -that- necessary. Since everything is sold immediately no matter what, I wonder what happens with the excess goods that sell at the depressed price? Just sold to imaginary buyers? Or do they start shifting out of the market?
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Aug 5, 2021 17:47
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man reading that dev diary made me feel like an idiotquote:But continuing to expand the Glassworks in Orsha will only lead to worsening Market Access for all local industries huh? why would more glass in Orsha change the market access of other industries? e: oh maybe because all the trains and carts in Orsha are full of glass and there's no room for anything else?
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Aug 5, 2021 17:52
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fuf posted:man reading that dev diary made me feel like an idiot
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Aug 5, 2021 17:58
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From some of the other diaries it sounds like infrastructure and transportation are things you consume resources to produce and that you need enough for all your factories to get full market access.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:58
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A complex economy that actually makes sense and won't stop functioning for no reason? This rules Also I know it's literally the least important feature but I'm really looking forward to learning how wars will work. Especially for multiplayer. Never actually played Vic 2 multiplayer but it looks like it'd be pretty fun fighting another person rather than the idiot AI
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Aug 5, 2021 18:06
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If anything this economy makes too much sense! How will we have a great depression now?! 
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Aug 5, 2021 18:12
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