(Thread IKs:
Nenonen)
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What should the presidential powers be in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| UNLIMITED!!!! URKKI 2.0!!!!!! |
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3 | 23.08% |
| Sauli should be allowed to telecast to our homes whenever he pleases, but that should be the limit. |
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2 | 15.38% |
| He should be limited to writing mildly worded letters to HBL and other provincial newspapers. |
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2 | 15.38% |
| None. More power to Sanna & Katri & Maria & Li & Anna-Maja & Jenni! |
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2 | 15.38% |
| Unlimited, but every decision must be subject to a plebiscite. |
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0 | 0% |
| None, but the president's life must be video streamed 24 /7 for the duration of their term, with no censorship. |
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4 | 30.77% |
| Total: | 13 votes | ||
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Rappaport posted:and you're still a bit of a butt, sir. I know I'm abrasive, I try to be better but(t) it's hard.
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Aug 3, 2021 21:13
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doverhog posted:I know I'm abrasive, I try to be better but(t) it's hard. You joke, but I will try to post better too. You are no butt, sir. We're all friends here in the finngoon thread!
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Aug 3, 2021 21:18
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Ok. 
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Aug 3, 2021 21:20
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GET A ROOM YOU TWO  (oikeasti olen iloinen teidän keskustelutaidoista, mutta harkitkaa sitä huoneen hankkimista)
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Aug 3, 2021 21:39
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bloom posted:Niin ja missä ovat olleet nämä vuosikymmeniä jatkuneet yhteiskunnan sulut?
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Aug 3, 2021 23:04
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Rappaport posted:It's "hard" because it is taught wrong
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Aug 4, 2021 00:39
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You know what's weird? The general experience in high school math, in Finland and also from elsewhere that I've heard from, is that high school math textbooks are inscrutable and you cannot possibly understand them. This was my experience too. Then I took some math courses at university and... The materials were written for humans? I could actually read them and understand them and learn from them? Huh. I imagine with universities your mileage will vary drastically because there are no standardized materials and the courses and materials are generally done by people with little to no formal training in education, but I lucked out and to me it showed that it's possible to teach math in a much better way. Even just by writing better materials. Elukka fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Aug 4, 2021 |
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Aug 4, 2021 01:10
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Elukka posted:You know what's weird? The general experience in high school math, in Finland and also from elsewhere that I've heard from, is that high school math textbooks are inscrutable and you cannot possibly understand them. This was my experience too. Dunno about inscrutability, since it's not my field, but the consensus among those of my friends who are math teachers (huge sample size of half a dozen) is that the textbooks have easier (or perhaps less complicated is the better expression) exercises and less advanced content than they used to when we were in high school (2002-2005 in my case, if anyone is wondering). Of course, there are different series of textbooks from different publishers, so that might have something to do with it. Another thing math teachers all claim is that the students starting high school today have worse math skills than 10-20 years ago, or hell, even 5 years ago, and far too many of them do not actually know how to study math properly (that is, work a lot and concentrate, and try to reason their way through thing step by step). It might be explained partially by the fact that far too many students who shouldn't take advanced math are taking advanced math because they heard it gives you the most points for getting into university. This is ill-advised, because up to advanced math grade M in matriculation exams, you get better points for having one grade higher in basic math. So basic math B > advanced math A; basic math C > advanced math B; basic math M > advanced math C. From that point onwards it flips around, and an M in advanced math is worth about as much as L in basic math.
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Aug 4, 2021 08:05
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A friend of mine works at the maths department in the Uni and has noted that every year the new students are less able/willing to concentrate on a given task for a long period of time and many simply lack the perseverance to sketch and try out different solutions until they finally succeed. Both are necessary skills for doing "real" mathematics that have little to do with performing calculations according to given instructions. Because we are olds, we have just decided to blame social media for their attention deficit 
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Aug 4, 2021 08:35
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barbecue at the folks posted:A friend of mine works at the maths department in the Uni and has noted that every year the new students are less able/willing to concentrate on a given task for a long period of time and many simply lack the perseverance to sketch and try out different solutions until they finally succeed. Both are necessary skills for doing "real" mathematics that have little to do with performing calculations according to given instructions. Because we are olds, we have just decided to blame social media for their attention deficit That matches up to what my friends have told me 100%.
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Aug 4, 2021 08:59
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Warden posted:Dunno about inscrutability, since it's not my field, but the consensus among those of my friends who are math teachers (huge sample size of half a dozen) is that the textbooks have easier (or perhaps less complicated is the better expression) exercises and less advanced content than they used to when we were in high school (2002-2005 in my case, if anyone is wondering). Of course, there are different series of textbooks from different publishers, so that might have something to do with it. I don't think it's a bad at math-case because I've since done like 40 noppas of university math and it's fine. I know what works to learn something is very personal and variable, but that the high school textbooks don't work seems to be a very common story.
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Aug 4, 2021 11:41
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Elukka posted:I know what works to learn something is very personal and variable, but that the high school textbooks don't work seems to be a very common story. To be honest, I can easily believe that. Edit. Many of my math teacher colleagues film their lessons and make them accessible in cloud and also share their personal notes there. I always write and share my own notes in addition to the course textbook (not a math teacher though). If *I* go "bwuh" at certain sections of the textbook for the Basic Law course in Social studies, how the gently caress are the students supposed to get what the book is going on about without someone explaining it in simple words with practical examples? Furthermore, it clearly shows that the people writing the history textbooks for the big publishers have been doing it for a long time, which means the things they themselves were taught decades ago are partially outdated and they haven't always kept up to date with more current research. Also, a colleague of mine detests trade unions and let us just say that it showed in the otherwise perfectly acceptable textbook he wrote which I used for years in teaching. Heh, I recall what my mentor told me a long time ago: "In your classroom there will be students who learn because of you but there's less of them than you think. Then there's people who learn regardless of you, and even some who learn despite of you. Then there's students who don't learn no matter what you do, and there might a student who doesn't learn because of what you do."
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Aug 4, 2021 13:30
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imo ylppärit should be completely removed completely and universities and AMKs should just have their own exams because they know the best as to what skills are necessary to succeed at that particular school. Putting emphasis on ylppärikokeet puts great burden on young kids who don't know what they want but who should know because their high school course selection already plays a huge role on what exams they can take and furthermore what universities etc. they can go to. Furthermore, my experience from high school (15 years ago) was that from like the second year onwards, there was a big focus on just doing old ylppärikokeet and not so much general learning. The school naturally wants its students to get good scores from the exams so they teach the exam format the best they can, content be damned. That they've shifted the emphasis from university entry exams to ylppärit has been a grand mistake.
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Aug 4, 2021 13:42
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Don't disagree with that in principle, but how do you deal with the problem of private valmennuskurssit being de facto required to get in? To counter my own argument, just study and be better than the people who's parents pay for them to go on the courses, but it's not really ideal. In lukio your studies at least are paid for by taxes.
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Aug 4, 2021 13:58
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That is true, but even for ylppärit there's a bunch of valmennuskurssi so one could see that the issue is only mitigated by focusing on high school exams. I don't think we can evade this problem completely. But as long as the exam materials are free and of tolerable quality, I'd say it's fair enough.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:37
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I started school abroad at a younger age and when we moved back to Finland, I skipped first grade. It was boring, I knew how to read and write and count. It kind of hosed me when it came time to Lukio, even that extra year of maturation would have probably done a lot of good. Was not ready for building my own lukujärjestys, ended up dropping out, doing a whole bunch of really sketchy poo poo for a long while. Finished it in aikuislukio, but at that point I was juggling a job and a kid and a relationship (and halfway through a job and single parenthood). Needless to say, the end result is todistusvalinta is no good for me (C C C L). I've been varasija'd a few times trying to get in to study for a fairly popular degree at a fairly popular school. When it's something like 2.4k applicants and 60 starting spots, ending up varasija #3 and later #11 is rough as hell and it's not gonna move at all. I'm finally starting polkuopinnot next week, but I'm waiting for the decision to be made about studying on unemployment benefits. Since it's aiming for a spot in the programme next year instead of a degree, I'm not eligible for student benefits (including student id or cheaper school meals. Gonna be a hangry year) and I need 60 op (no idea yet how much work this is in practice) and to maintain a nefariously worded "good gpa" in order to get the transfer. So if they decide against me, I'm studying on toimeentulotuki and fighting KELA over it for the next year. Oh, and you can't even apply for it before you have to spot. And the spot costs 300€ so it uh, doesn't feel great clicking that confirmation button not knowing how your money is going to work, or if it even is. I don't really know what my point is. It's just really annoying to work the current system if you manage to wash out from the default path. At least now I'm gonna get started on my first real degree (ylioppilas don't count) at 30. I also have opetushallituksen salassa pidettävä päätös ruotsin kielen opetuksesta vapauttamisesta that I can't wait to present and see if they honour it since it's from lukio times. If they do I bet it will make me very popular among people headed towards virkamiesruotsi.
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Aug 4, 2021 20:02
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Kehveli posted:I also have opetushallituksen salassa pidettävä päätös ruotsin kielen opetuksesta vapauttamisesta the gently caress is that?
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Aug 4, 2021 21:29
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I should probate Kehveli for revealing a state secret, shouldn't I???
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Aug 4, 2021 21:34
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SnowblindFatal posted:That they've shifted the emphasis from university entry exams to ylppärit has been a grand mistake.
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Aug 4, 2021 21:49
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Herman Merman posted:Thirdly, they allow you to meaningfully apply to many different degree programs simultaneously, even of they're in completely different fields, something that was very hard before when you had to take N separate entrance exams around the country. Studying for a gorillion different entrance exams over a few summers was certainly not fun. That said, putting such immense pressure on 16-18 y.o. dumbfucks as in the current system is hardly a perfect solution either.
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Aug 4, 2021 21:53
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I was personally immensely relieved when I did well enough in kirjoitukset to get in with a direct todistusvalinta. I loving hated the idea of studying for a yet another exam and was kind of stressed about it back then.
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Aug 4, 2021 22:04
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Catpain Slack posted:the gently caress is that? Under certain circumstances principles can free you from swedish. I went through elementary school in english so I changed my first language to english in the magistrate and asked about it. Probably wouldnt have worked in normal school but worked in aikuislukio.
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Aug 4, 2021 22:17
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I spent two years studying for the entrance exam of my dream subject while working off my debt to society by taking care of my civil service. Looking back it was a pretty dumb way to go about things - I could've at least hedged my bets a bit. It sure as hell wasn't ideal spending a lot of my evenings in the library while working (no preparatory courses for poor old me) but I still feel it was better than having had to spend my lukio stressing out about my matriculation instead of just, you know, dicking around starting bands and drinking beer and such. Shifting that responsibility to a time of your life where you at least feel able to make those choices and fully responsible for them feels like the better option. Also you have a possibility to catch up a bit if you spent too much of your time dicking around etc. instead of actually applying yourself, hah. The only other option would be to just admit everyone and then start kicking out people after the first year, which under the current system, yeah, no.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:19
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olen vähän jakonaista mieltä koronapassi ideasta toisaalta kaikenlainen kyttääminen ja seuranta aiheuttaa aika helvetin vahvaa antipatiaa mutta sitten taas, ehkä ne ravintola ja festari työntekijät arvostaa sellasta että ei tule vesa matti meikä rykii koronaa sinne
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Aug 5, 2021 05:43
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i dropped out of lukio and then learned to program the computer, it is not much of story do not get me wrong, i have tried a variety of trade schools since i am just little dysfunctional so the computer it is e: editing this post lot of hours later to add that i originally wanted to become a traditional art painter very happy i did not go on that path, i would not have had the fortitude matti fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 05:49
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For me the whole point of ylppärit was to get a good enough grade in just something to get a todistusvalintapaikka in whatever at the uni I wanted, so that I could concentrate on the exam for the subject that I actually wanted to study. In that roundabout way I owe my hömppähumanities degree to getting a good enough grade in long math. So personally I'm grateful that both options existed.
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Aug 5, 2021 07:15
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Real problem is that you need a loving amk-tutkinto to a lot of jobs where real requirement is basic arithmetic and literacy.
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Aug 5, 2021 07:51
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Kehveli posted:I also have opetushallituksen salassa pidettävä päätös ruotsin kielen opetuksesta vapauttamisesta that I can't wait to present and see if they honour it since it's from lukio times. If they do I bet it will make me very popular among people headed towards virkamiesruotsi. If your lukio and/or YO certificates lack Swedish, then that should be good enough.
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Aug 5, 2021 08:46
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Catpain Slack posted:Studying for a gorillion different entrance exams over a few summers was certainly not fun. That said, putting such immense pressure on 16-18 y.o. dumbfucks as in the current system is hardly a perfect solution either. Hit the nail in the head. Students are stressed as gently caress, the new scoring system means that that students who really should take basic math are taking advanced math and wasting everyone's time with that approach. Like, it's not rare for one student in three to fail to get a passing grade on their first try in the first courses of advanced math these days. Furthermore, students are forced to plan their studies based on what subjects give most points, not what they are interested in and good at, and the system is sometimes quite illogical. For example, if you apply to study English in university, you get the most points for advanced math, English and Finnish (in that order) but after that loving physics gives more points than B-level (started in yläkoulu) extra language, and goddamn religion gives more points than C-level (started in lukio) extra language. On the other hand, having to study for several different entrance exams was not good either, and the coaching firms have suffered, as they should, since most high schools offer their own courses for practicing towards matriculation exams. I just got home from teaching one, in fact.
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Aug 5, 2021 13:37
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Coronapassi is a cool and good thing. There is no excuse for not getting vaccinated in Finland.
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Aug 5, 2021 14:20
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Koronapassi is the dumbest poo poo and I'm glad perustuslakivaliokunta is gonna poo poo on it like they did with the equally dumb liikkumisrajoitukset. It's sad how horny people are to live in a papers please world.
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Aug 5, 2021 16:36
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It's just an indication of how sick people are of these restrictions and to the ordinary citizen it looks like if some idiot hellfuckers are the reason normal life can't continue, then it's just reasonable to expect those restrictions to apply to only those aforementioned hellfuckers
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Aug 5, 2021 16:45
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bloom posted:
Poster rejected, next. 
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Aug 5, 2021 16:49
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Darkest Auer posted:It's just an indication of how sick people are of these restrictions and to the ordinary citizen it looks like if some idiot hellfuckers are the reason normal life can't continue, then it's just reasonable to expect those restrictions to apply to only those aforementioned hellfuckers Maybe we shouldn't do things like this just because people are feeling vindictive. Corona passes haven't exactly been a smashing success in countries like Denmark who adopted them early. I half think the government knows the pass is going to fail and is only proposing it so they can tell their panicky elderly voters that they tried.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:05
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COBRASTAN is not a real vaccine.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:02
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bloom posted:Maybe we shouldn't do things like this just because people are feeling vindictive. Corona passes haven't exactly been a smashing success in countries like Denmark who adopted them early. It's a symptom of a wider issue, namely that governments in the world have more or less reacted rather than actively working against the threat. Oh, a pandemic is spreading in Europe? Doesn't concern us! What's that? Tourists are bringing it back home? Wow, who could have foreseen that! Guess we'll have to close down borders around Uusimaa! I mean I'm grateful we've got the vaccine program up and running, but we always seem to be one step behind.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:10
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Maybe we should start acting against threats before they even exist. Come join my katupartio so we can keep the streets safe from ISIS!
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Aug 5, 2021 18:14
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Nenonen posted:Maybe we should start acting against threats before they even exist. Come join my katupartio so we can keep the streets safe from ISIS! You kid, but really, there have been countless pandemics since humanity began, so the threat was always there. To see the western democratic governments, the lights on the hill, sucking at dealing with this is kinda telling.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:21
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No. 1 Callie Fan posted:You kid, but really, there have been countless pandemics since humanity began, so the threat was always there. To see the western democratic governments, the lights on the hill, sucking at dealing with this is kinda telling. Fine, let's rewrite the constitution. Which rights do you want to remove from us?
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Aug 5, 2021 18:22
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:22 |
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Nenonen posted:Fine, let's rewrite the constitution. Which rights do you want to remove from us? I don't think rewriting it will help much, since it is apparent nobody reads it anyway outside of the constitutional committee. 
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Aug 5, 2021 18:27
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