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It is acceptable to ask for better sources to confirm allegations, it is not acceptable to outright dismiss allegations of sexual abuse without extremely strong evidence. The ideological leanings of the source are not such evidence. Of course a politician's enemies are going to amplify allegations against them; it's beneficial for them to do so. That an ulterior motive exists is not evidence that the allegations are false, especially not when video evidence is provided. As such, Solkanar is banned from this thread and will have other penalties coming shortly. That said, it is unacceptable for posters, especially people who are not usually thread participants, to call other people rape apologists for asking for better sources. It's also not acceptable to run a riot in this thread because the mods haven't responded in the space of two hours. If you feel something absolutely needs immediate attention because it puts people at risk or similar, contact a mod via the discord link in the D&D rules thread. If it's an issue of ordinarily unacceptable posting, it can wait a few hours for attention.
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Aug 7, 2021 23:41
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Why did you remove the Joe Biden avatars?
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Aug 7, 2021 23:48
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Jeff Fatwood posted:Why did you remove the Joe Biden avatars? I didn't, but I think that we probably shouldn't have slideshows of little girls being touched inappropriately all over the forums.
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Aug 7, 2021 23:50
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The people who were demanding better sources also weren't common posters in this thread. Weird what gets called an invasion and what doesn't.
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Aug 7, 2021 23:50
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fool of sound posted:It is acceptable to ask for better sources to confirm allegations, it is not acceptable to outright dismiss allegations of sexual abuse without extremely strong evidence. The ideological leanings of the source are not such evidence. Of course a politician's enemies are going to amplify allegations against them; it's beneficial for them to do so. That an ulterior motive exists is not evidence that the allegations are false, especially not when video evidence is provided. As such, Solkanar is banned from this thread and will have other penalties coming shortly. The person who was being called a rape apologist quite literally looked through the original posts twitter handle specifically to compare the story to covid denial. I do not find that acceptable for any thread much less here.
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Aug 7, 2021 23:57
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fool of sound posted:It is acceptable to ask for better sources to confirm allegations, it is not acceptable to outright dismiss allegations of sexual abuse without extremely strong evidence. The ideological leanings of the source are not such evidence. Of course a politician's enemies are going to amplify allegations against them; it's beneficial for them to do so. That an ulterior motive exists is not evidence that the allegations are false, especially not when video evidence is provided. As such, Solkanar is banned from this thread and will have other penalties coming shortly. So to be clear, it’s the D&D mods’ position that Gateway Pundit, Stormfront, covid denialists, et al are acceptable sources to post?
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Aug 7, 2021 23:58
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Sedisp posted:The person who was being called a rape apologist quite literally looked through the original posts twitter handle specifically to compare the story to covid denial. I do not find that acceptable for any thread much less here. That poster has been banned from this thread and has other actions waiting in the queue, as stated. I'm referring to other posters expressing a desire for a better source. goethe.cx posted:So to be clear, it’s the D&D mods’ position that Gateway Pundit, Stormfront, covid denialists, et al are acceptable sources to post? There's a difference between a source being bad, and an individual claim on a different topic from a bad source that provides video evidence that can also sourced elsewhere being regarded as false with no further counter-evidence provided. fool of sound fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Aug 8, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 23:59
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fool of sound posted:It is acceptable to ask for better sources to confirm allegations, it is not acceptable to outright dismiss allegations of sexual abuse without extremely strong evidence. The ideological leanings of the source are not such evidence. Of course a politician's enemies are going to amplify allegations against them; it's beneficial for them to do so. That an ulterior motive exists is not evidence that the allegations are false, especially not when video evidence is provided. As such, Solkanar is banned from this thread and will have other penalties coming shortly. What exactly does “run a riot” mean here? Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Aug 8, 2021 |
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Aug 8, 2021 00:00
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fool of sound posted:That poster has been banned from this thread and has other actions waiting in the queue, as stated. I'm referring to other posters expressing a desire for a better source. Was anyone else besides that poster called a rape apologist? Rereading it it doesn't look like Fritz was ever called it beyond everyone sighing at them doing the usual gimmick of trying to minimize yet another terrible revelation about our president
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Aug 8, 2021 00:05
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Probably Magic posted:The people who were demanding better sources also weren't common posters in this thread. Weird what gets called an invasion and what doesn't. I don’t commonly post in this thread, but I do commonly read it. For whatever that’s worth
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Aug 8, 2021 00:08
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Is there a reason d&d doesn't have an open mod feedback thread like many other subforums do? Seems like there's a lot of feedback for the mods right now.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:10
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I’ve been reading this thread for months but haven’t participated because I’m trying to catch up on all the previous pages. I jumped to the end today because I saw it had been locked. I’m sure others are in a similar situation.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:30
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ram dass in hell posted:The media criticism thread is an absolute smoldering dumpster fire and under no conditions should it be read, referred to, or posted in. Nobody here is defending the honor of the Gateway Pundit or whatever weird poo poo you're imagining. quote:Airing grievances about a different thread in this one. You're already on thin ice in D&D because of the deal you made with the admins to return to the site; change the way you post. User loses posting privileges for 3 day. I feel like when someone else brings up another thread to shore up their argument saying 'that thread loving sucks' doesn't really merit three days regardless of how much someone is on thin ice?
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Aug 8, 2021 00:37
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VitalSigns posted:Sounded like it to me dude, she had to delete her accounts because she was getting harassed and bullied by her assaulter's political allies. It's pretty messed up to imply that the people bringing up that Biden did that are somehow victimizing her, not the people who bully every woman and girl who accuses him into silence.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:54
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Mellow Seas posted:Look - you can argue that the reasons she didn’t want to come forward are unjust, and you can argue that her accusation is a matter of public interest. Those are very fair things to argue; I don’t really disagree with either them. But it’s complicated by the simple fact that she said something to someone in private, and asked them not to make it public, and they disrespected her wishes, which has caused a personal shitstorm for her. That guy is a dickhead, IMO. But it is worth noting that the scale of this sort of thing is different and for a lot of people in this thread, there really isn't an authority or institution they could imagine realistically appealing to. If we agree that we do have a duty to protect children when they tell us they were abused and place that duty over their privacy, but there are no clear discreet institutions to appeal to, then I think it makes the situation a lot more murky on what is the right thing to do.
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Aug 8, 2021 01:02
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Timeless Appeal posted:I am sympathetic to what you are saying, and generally speaking you should not out survivors. But if a child tells you that they were sexually assaulted, you should absolutely not keep it yourself and immediately try to get help for them. I agree with your broader point but those reporting responsibilities do NOT fall to random dudes on social media who don’t even know the victim. He could’ve just called attention to the video, without revealing privileged communications, and counseled her to speak to someone about it. “Who to talk to” is an unfortunately complicated question, of course. Sadly, because of our hosed up society, I don’t know how this could have possibly turned out well for Maria. Like, yes, if children tell you they were abused, you should take an action: that action should not be to breathlessly leak unredacted DMs to media organizations! Ever!
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Aug 8, 2021 01:05
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Timeless Appeal posted:I am sympathetic to what you are saying, and generally speaking you should not out survivors. But if a child tells you that they were sexually assaulted, you should absolutely not keep it yourself and immediately try to get help for them. Depending on your profession, you may actually have a legal compulsion to report exactly the behavior that is being discussed here! Here in Florida (of all places lmao) we have mandatory reporter laws that if a child confesses to a teacher that they're being abused (sexually or otherwise), a teacher can face criminal penalty for not reporting it to CPS.
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Aug 8, 2021 01:07
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Pamela Springstein posted:Is there a reason d&d doesn't have an open mod feedback thread like many other subforums do? Seems like there's a lot of feedback for the mods right now. My understanding is that dnd feedback threads tend to have a lifecycle where the quality eventually drops and stays dropped, generally after most things recently worth saying have been said. So that's why we don't have a perpetual one. We're probably overdue for the next one.
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Aug 8, 2021 01:11
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Lib and let die posted:Depending on your profession, you may actually have a legal compulsion to report exactly the behavior that is being discussed here! Here in Florida (of all places lmao) we have mandatory reporter laws that if a child confesses to a teacher that they're being abused (sexually or otherwise), a teacher can face criminal penalty for not reporting it to CPS.
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Aug 8, 2021 01:14
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Mellow Seas posted:I agree with your broader point but those reporting responsibilities do NOT fall to random dudes on social media who don’t even know the victim. He could’ve just called attention to the video, without revealing privileged communications, and counseled her to speak to someone about it. “Who to talk to” is an unfortunately complicated question, of course. Sadly, because of our hosed up society, I don’t know how this could have possibly turned out well for Maria. Hm maybe it would help girls like Maria if we held the man who groped her accountable instead of basically giving a pass to bullying victims into silence with this stuff about how if they're successful enough at bullying a girl into not wanting to talk then we need to "respect her wishes" Worth pointing out that in the screenshot she outright states her wishes are for her to be able to talk about this and get justice, she just knows neither of those things will happen
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Aug 8, 2021 01:21
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VitalSigns posted:Hm maybe it would help girls like Maria if we held the man who groped her accountable instead of basically giving a pass to bullying victims into silence with this stuff about how if they're successful enough at bullying a girl into not wanting to talk then we need to "respect her wishes"
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Aug 8, 2021 01:25
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes, of course. I don't see how I said anything that conflicts with that. I think it's weird that your focus seems to be on how people trying to hold the president accountable are 'retraumatizing' her when in her own words it's the people bullying her and protecting her groper that seem to be causing her distress Not great priorities, not great.
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Aug 8, 2021 02:11
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes, of course. I don't see how I said anything that conflicts with that. You don't? Okay, here are the things that did: Mellow Seas posted:But it’s complicated by the simple fact that she said something to someone in private, and asked them not to make it public, and they disrespected her wishes, which has caused a personal shitstorm for her. That guy is a dickhead, IMO. Mellow Seas posted:He could’ve just called attention to the video, without revealing privileged communications, and counseled her to speak to someone about it. Mellow Seas posted:to breathlessly leak unredacted DMs to media organizations! Ever! Mellow Seas posted:“Who to talk to” is an unfortunately complicated question, of course. Sadly, because of our hosed up society, I don’t know how this could have possibly turned out well for Maria. This is like, defensive concern trolling 101. Yes of course she expressed a wish to go public, but that doesn't mean it should, because it would be so bad for her! Just accept that as a fait accompli and get mad at the guy trying to draw attention to the president sexually harassing a child instead, even though she specifically said it's people doing that exact thing that's affecting her the most! It comes across as a really nasty, cynical attempt to shut down conversation about the awful poo poo Biden has done by waving the girl he assaulted around like a human shield, guy.
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Aug 8, 2021 02:24
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes, of course. I don't see how I said anything that conflicts with that. Probably because you're a little slow, op (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 8, 2021 02:25
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I feel like the person that made it public against her wishes is really icky, but it's a level of icky that pales in comparison to just the cspan video or the dozens of other videos available showing a consistent trend. I don't see why anyone would have to defend the Idea that either is icky, or that one detracts from the other. Ignoring it because of the source is not a solution either. I mostly just lurk this thread and don't post, but this was egregious in a way that I felt. My daughter is 8, and the thought of some old creep doing that to her makes my blood boil. Its right there on the video and it just made me want to vomit. The whole situation is just upsetting
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Aug 8, 2021 02:40
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't see why anyone would have to defend the Idea that either is icky, or that one detracts from the other.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:06
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Ornedan posted:https://twitter.com/TurkeyMaze/status/1419028338186735618 This is extremely gross and he should absolutely not have power of any kind. Is it true that someone in charge of the #metoo org is on Biden's staff? I remember someone saying during the election that he had a lady on his campaign staff that was a director of some kind.
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Aug 8, 2021 04:49
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spacetoaster posted:This is extremely gross and he should absolutely not have power of any kind. Anita Dunn, Biden's chief of staff, was head of PR for Time's Up, the legal arm of MeToo that declined to take Tara Reade's case against Biden for entirely spurious reasons Mellow Seas posted:This was absolutely my intended message; like I said, my concerns about the ethics of the leaking have nothing to do with defending Biden's actions. Thanks for expressing it better than I could. You need to work on your communication, dude. You have a pattern of turning up in this thread, saying something that definitely sounds lovely and then when you get pushed back on explaining that you actually meant something entirely different
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Aug 8, 2021 04:59
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Cuomo also sought help from Time's Up to massage his public response and discredit his accusers https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/05/nyregion/cuomo-accusers-alphonso-david-roberta-kaplan.html quote:The report laid bare how Mr. Cuomo had come to rely on a small band of advisers — not just his closest government aides, but also a handful of outside loyalists, even consulting leaders of groups dedicated to supporting gay rights and victims of sexual harassment. Many of those allies helped fine-tune his public response to the allegations and, in the most troubling instance, helped to spearhead a campaign to stymie them.
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Aug 8, 2021 05:54
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Time's Up is a catch-and-kill operation. Helping Cuomo is the kind of thing it was made for.
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Aug 8, 2021 06:48
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Time's Up is a catch-and-kill operation. Helping Cuomo is the kind of thing it was made for. I thought it originated as a way to cynically attack Republicans, then morphed into a catch-and-kill the second people started thinking Democrat sex pests were also bad
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Aug 8, 2021 08:17
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From context I am assuming the phrase "catch and kill" refers to running some sort of disinformation campaign against people who come forward?
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Aug 8, 2021 09:09
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OwlFancier posted:From context I am assuming the phrase "catch and kill" refers to running some sort of disinformation campaign against people who come forward? The phrase is quite literal- it refers to a cul-de-sac, say an org like Time's Up that advertises and fundraises as 'the people who will help you get justice against your abusers' that attracts big money and names, crowds out the field so they're the only game in town, and then quietly shuts down anyone who comes to them with accusations against anyone on their side. In the case of Time's Up, 'their side' is the Democrat establishment.
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Aug 8, 2021 09:17
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some plague rats posted:The phrase is quite literal- it refers to a cul-de-sac, say an org like Time's Up that advertises and fundraises as 'the people who will help you get justice against your abusers' that attracts big money and names, crowds out the field so they're the only game in town, and then quietly shuts down anyone who comes to them with accusations against anyone on their side. In the case of Time's Up, 'their side' is the Democrat establishment. Ah right I see, that makes sense, monopolising the "respectable" places people can go and only publishing when it suits them. Disgusting, but appropriate naming.
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Aug 8, 2021 09:20
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OwlFancier posted:From context I am assuming the phrase "catch and kill" refers to running some sort of disinformation campaign against people who come forward? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_and_kill
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Aug 8, 2021 11:07
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Yinlock posted:I thought it originated as a way to cynically attack Republicans, then morphed into a catch-and-kill the second people started thinking Democrat sex pests were also bad —It rose to prominence at the Golden Globes and tried to paint a unified front where the good guys had won and the bad guys had been kicked out of Hollywood. James Franco famously wore a pin. —Their overhead is questionable —Their dealings with Reade were weird with them initially offering legal support only to take a stance of supporting her in words but not wanting to take actions that could be seen as partisan. This is generally seen as a BS take in tax law and people can of course make their own conclusions of their motivations. I don’t really buy into the catch and kill take on them. I think they’re just an organization with good underlying principles, horribly executed on multiple fronts and led by questionable people. I would also make some separation between them and MeToo. They’re obviously related but #Metoo refers to a. specific organization and a broader global social movement. I don’t think that Time’s Up is really its legal arm. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Aug 8, 2021 |
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Aug 8, 2021 13:49
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Lol not wanting to be seen as partisan. Sure, Jan. If they actually didn't want to seem partisan, they wouldn't go after any Republican politicians either, instead of picking one political party and protecting their abusers only. Also just that goal, even if pursued in good faith, is obviously terrible anyway, if you can't go after politicians because it would look partisan, then politicians get a free pass on sexual assault and rape.
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Aug 8, 2021 16:04
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VitalSigns posted:Lol not wanting to be seen as partisan. Sure, Jan. What's really weird is that they WERE working with Reade at some point, and to be fair did publicly encourage her to move forward when they declined to offer her direct support. But the public narrative of what is out there is that they found out it was about Biden at one point which is weird because Reade was already out publicly with her initial claims about Biden. So, even if she was not forthcoming--which seems weird--you think they would have a good guess what this was about?
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Aug 8, 2021 16:35
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Timeless Appeal posted:To be fair, I don't think that they've given legal aid to cases against Republican politicians although I could be wrong, focusing more on the private sector. But yeah, their justification was that if they were seen as partisan then they might lose their tax exempt status, but from what I've read that's probably not true. And the connections and what has been at best fence sitting with Cuomo makes it hard to take seriously. Possibly some sort of smokescreen. I mean, "We won't take your case, but we encourage you to pursue it elsewhere" can pretty quickly and easily be boiled down to "The 'official' group for this refused to take her case. Really makes you think...  "
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Aug 8, 2021 16:45
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Also think its worth noting Rose McGowan's allegations about Times Up coxying with agencies like CAA who helped suppress numerous sexual asaults https://www.thedailybeast.com/rose-mcgowan-brands-times-up-movement-fakes-for-partnering-with-caa
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Aug 8, 2021 16:55
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