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He also propositioned Lyta, no?
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Jul 27, 2021 15:04
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V-Men posted:He also propositioned Lyta, no? He did, but he only really wanted her DNA. Honest.
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Jul 27, 2021 15:10
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ConfusedUs posted:
The real reason why the techno mages fled was because G'Kar had asked them to update his software.
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Jul 27, 2021 15:30
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Who has the worse hard drive, Londo or G’kar?
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Jul 27, 2021 16:03
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G'Kar has his poo poo in alphabetized folders while Londo accidentally downloads a virus on limewire.
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Jul 27, 2021 17:00
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Alhazred posted:G'Kar has his poo poo in alphabetized folders while Londo accidentally downloads a virus on limewire. C:\user\gkar\downloads\bookofgquan\inspirational\humans\two_girls_one_narn.mov C:\user\gkar\downloads\bookofgquan\inspirational\humans\help_me_step_psicop.mp4 C:\user\gkar\downloads\bookofgquan\inspirational\friends\SheridanAndDelennWedding(afterparty).mov
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Jul 27, 2021 17:06
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Jul 27, 2021 17:09
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Everyone talks about the Technomages but nobody spends a moment to think about the poor Technosupport staff. I hear after the Great War they hired a couple of Zathrases.
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Jul 27, 2021 20:10
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Narsham posted:Everyone talks about the Technomages but nobody spends a moment to think about the poor Technosupport staff. 
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Jul 27, 2021 23:25
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Narsham posted:Everyone talks about the Technomages but nobody spends a moment to think about the poor Technosupport staff. Hello, this is Zathras have have you tried turning Great Machine off and back on again? No, you are confoosed, before you are speaking to Zathras. This is Zathras.
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Jul 28, 2021 11:15
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It seems like the person powering the Great Machine has run out of juice. Would you like poor, old Zathras to order a new one?
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Jul 28, 2021 16:38
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https://twitter.com/sylweriusz/status/1422957411648909321
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Aug 5, 2021 00:51
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I remember people debating B5 vs DS9 back in the day. Is DS9 worth watching if I liked B5?
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Aug 8, 2021 02:24
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Small White Dragon posted:I remember people debating B5 vs DS9 back in the day. Is DS9 worth watching if I liked B5? Yes. DS9 is great and really not very similar to B5. I can buy that Paramount stole broad strokes from the B5 proposal but the way the show plays out is entirely different. The first season is a little rough, but as a B5 fan you should be able to handle that.  It's nowhere near as bad as TNG's early period though.
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Aug 8, 2021 02:37
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It's not quite the same thing, but it's not bad. With most things, it depends on what exactly you like about the thing you like to tell what similar things would be your jam. There's a lot of similar themes, but DS9 leans a lot more towards Star Trek's episodic model instead of B5's ever-unwinding overarching plot. There's politics, although Star Trek's original themes mean the politics can't get too wild.
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Aug 8, 2021 02:38
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The weirdest similarity to me is that both shows have a character named Dukat. That would be such a weird thing for a studio suit to mandate to the Star Trek people.
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Aug 8, 2021 02:40
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DS9 could afford more seasoned actors, better directors, and just plain had a lot of that Fingerspitzengefühl coming from actually having done work on a previous sci fi show before. In my opinion they hit the ground running better, even if they did need to get a feel for the cast. I also disagree that the politics don't get too wild, not to spoil it but it's definitely out there. The later seasons started losing the plot but even they had really good episodes. It never reaches the season and series-spanning highs of B5, but it's worth your time, in my opinion.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:06
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It never reaches the season and series-spanning highs of B5, but it's worth your time, in my opinion. I would agree with this. Not about the later seasons though, I think DS9 gets continuously better through the entire series. I can entertain the idea of the last season being a slight slip, but at least 5 and 6 are the peak of Trek overall. One of the consistent advantages DS9 has is in the dialogue though. JMS is just... kinda bad at writing human sounding dialogue a lot of the time. DS9's voice is better. In any case DS9 is one of the greats of TV sci-fi, go watch it.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:09
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Grand Fromage posted:I would agree with this. Not about the later seasons though, I think DS9 gets continuously better through the entire series. I can entertain the idea of the last season being a slight slip, but at least 5 and 6 are the peak of Trek overall. I was mostly referring to this whole Pah wraiths nonsense and Dukat becoming their prophet, and that starting to take over the long-term plot.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:25
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I was mostly referring to this whole Pah wraiths nonsense and Dukat becoming their prophet, and that starting to take over the long-term plot. Ah, yeah. I don't hate that as much as a lot of people do but agree, it wasn't done well. The thing that saved it was Marc Alaimo and Louise Fletcher are so goddamn good that it's hard to not enjoy seeing them on screen together.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:31
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Of course I didn’t realize that Louise Fletcher was Nurse Ratched until many years later Nor that that was absolutely why they cast her
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Aug 8, 2021 03:34
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I have never seen that movie, I probably should. Winn is such a great villain. DS9 was excellent at villains. Winn, Dukat, Weyoun. Just hit after hit after hit. Even minor ones like Brunt were so good.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:37
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Grand Fromage posted:I have never seen that movie, I probably should. Winn is such a great villain. DS9 was excellent at villains. Winn, Dukat, Weyoun. Just hit after hit after hit. Even minor ones like Brunt were so good. But you repeat yourself. 
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Aug 8, 2021 03:39
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The weirdest similarity to me is that both shows have a character named Dukat. That would be such a weird thing for a studio suit to mandate to the Star Trek people. And a redhead named Lyta. (Also, Patricia Tallman apparently worked a lot on Star Trek, particularly being the stunt double for Gates McFadden, Nana Visitor, and Terry Farrell. Had a handful of small non-stunt appearances, too, and looking at her Memory Alpha page I'm particularly taken with her expression here as "Defiant weapons officer".)
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Aug 8, 2021 04:17
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Jeffery Combs is also in both B5 and DS9, but he gives a very different performance. I'm not sure how much is the character being different and how much is B5 directing maybe not being good. The acting in the last season of DS9 is top-notch, but the writing of how everything ends isn't great. Absurd Alhazred posted:DS9 could afford more seasoned actors, better directors, and just plain had a lot of that Fingerspitzengefühl coming from actually having done work on a previous sci fi show before. In my opinion they hit the ground running better, even if they did need to get a feel for the cast. I also disagree that the politics don't get too wild, not to spoil it but it's definitely out there. Well, that's what spoiler tags are for, so I'll leave it here for people who've seen both of the B5 and DS9. I guess I mean they can't get as wild, since there's the big parallel of having a coup on Earth, but with DS9 it's an unthinkable one-off, while B5 turned it into a whole spanning plotline. The interstellar politics also are a bit weaker in DS9, since while B5 could really give you a window into the complexity with the whole interplay of the Narn and Centauri flipping back and forth from villains to sympathetic heroes, but all the big factions in Star Trek were already either villains or former villains that had agreed to temporary alliances and ceasefires with the Federation. There was a lot less wiggle room. The Centauri/Narn war was a major escalation, but the Klingons going to war? Not as much of a shock. The one faction that wasn't predictably sinister was Bajor, but it gets pretty forgotten as the show goes on.
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Aug 8, 2021 04:26
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Vavrek posted:And a redhead named Lyta. That's the appropriate expression for most Defiant scenes.
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Aug 8, 2021 04:26
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B5 has both higher highs and lower lows than DS9 Is how I typically compare the two.
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Aug 8, 2021 05:01
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Vavrek posted:And a redhead named Lyta. And the oddly specific category of women named Number One.
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Aug 8, 2021 05:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:Jeffery Combs is also in both B5 and DS9, but he gives a very different performance. I'm not sure how much is the character being different and how much is B5 directing maybe not being good. And the admiral guy helping do the coup on B5 was killed off offscreen because the actor took a job on DS9 as an admiral doing a coup and had conflicting shooting schedules.
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Aug 8, 2021 06:01
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SlothfulCobra posted:Well, that's what spoiler tags are for, so I'll leave it here for people who've seen both of the B5 and DS9. I mean there's the whole thing with the developing identity and threat of the Dominion and its occasionally combative component parts, and going back and forth with the Romulans and the Klingons as to what they feel about it, as well as the Cardassians, which were introduced in TNG but really were mostly fleshed out here, and the resulting conflict with the Maquis. And, I mean, they spent the front six episodes of one season with the "home" station under Dominion control.
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Aug 8, 2021 06:14
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Absurd Alhazred posted:And, I mean, they spent the front six episodes of one season with the "home" station under Dominion control. I'm rewatching DS9 right now and it occurred to me that an appropriate intro change to reflect this situation would've been pretty great.
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Aug 8, 2021 06:23
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McSpanky posted:I'm rewatching DS9 right now and it occurred to me that an appropriate intro change to reflect this situation would've been pretty great. That would have owned. Alas.
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Aug 8, 2021 06:30
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Personally, i'm not a big fan of DS9. To me Trek is very hopeful of the future, and idealistic. DS9 certainly leaves that behind compared to most others. But, it does have some of the best characters in all of star trek, which is what makes it compelling enough to watch for me. I had a thread asking people to make me like DS9, because i'd tried to watch it before but never got into it. This is what got me into the people in the show enough to actually watch the whole thing. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3941559 I'm glad I did watch all of it, even if i'm unlikely to rewatch the whole show like I do other trek shows.
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Aug 8, 2021 07:17
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The big difference between DS9, besides DS9 having like twice as much money to spend per episode than B5, is that B5 had a plan for all five seasons. Of course life happened and things had to get changed, and characters left, came back, left again and so on and so forth, but B5 knew more or less where it was going from the very first episode. DS9, on the other hand, was episodic Star Trek, especially in the early seasons. Oh there was a little more to it than the other Trek shows, with things being set up early in a season that pays off by the end of it1. And eventually there is an overall plot that ties much of the later seasons together, but you can tell there wasn't really a plan to it all, it just sort of evolved over time. You can get whiplash from the tonal shifts in DS9 sometimes2, but the production values are always top notch, and some of the best DS9 episodes really hold up3, even if they rarely have the same impact as a great B5 episode, since the B5 episode was set up well in advance, where-as the best DS9 episodes tend to be one and done. I like Deep Space Nine, but when I want to see it again, I borrow the DVDs from the library or stream it. I love Babylon 5, and I own a physical copy of every DVD that was ever put out, as well as some of the comics and novels, and I even still have the old Babylon 5 Wars tabletop game in a box in my garage. B5 is the superior show in my opinion, but there's still a lot to like about DS9. 1 = The anti-alien movement among the Bajorans is in the background of the first season and pays off in the season finale and the first three episodes of season two. Then they start mentioning the Dominion here and there throughout season two and pay that off with the season finale and opening episodes of season three. And so on and so forth. But DS9's planning was usually on a season by season basis, rather than showlong like B5's was. 2 = Interrupting your series ending war for a baseball episode? I mean yes, it's a funny episode but Jesus did that need to be in an earlier season! 3 = In the Pale Moonlight and Duet, for example, hold up very well indeed. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Aug 8, 2021 |
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Aug 8, 2021 07:59
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CainFortea posted:Personally, i'm not a big fan of DS9. To me Trek is very hopeful of the future, and idealistic. DS9 certainly leaves that behind compared to most others. This, honestly, is I think what bugs me about DS9, as much as I enjoyed watching it when I did with my family a few years ago. It feels like some DS9 fans I've talked with enjoy the show greatly because it takes the idea of Star Trek's vision of the future as being unrealistic, perhaps a sham, and impossible to maintain. This is seen as being more realistic, and therefore better. And I hear this and think: "So, you just ... don't like Star Trek?" Because I always interpret Star Trek as being fundamentally about that idealistic future, about what it would be like if humanity became something better than it is. DS9 feels like it often starts by saying "well, that idealistic future isn't actually true, it's just what people tell themselves in the 24th Century." It's not as though it's an uninteresting idea, but it's a denial of the fundamental premise of the setting. But back to the initial question... Small White Dragon posted:I remember people debating B5 vs DS9 back in the day. Is DS9 worth watching if I liked B5? Also, for all the accusations of DS9 copying B5, Sheridan gives me strong Sisko vibes, at least at a glance.
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Aug 8, 2021 08:25
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jng2058 posted:B5 knew more or less where it was going from the very first episode. One thing I had forgotten about the show is that Londo says how he's going to die in the first episode. I also like the random pak'ma'ra who walks into the assassination attempt at Lyndista in Sic Transit Vir, realizes what's going on and slowly backs away.
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Aug 8, 2021 12:39
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Vavrek posted:This, honestly, is I think what bugs me about DS9, as much as I enjoyed watching it when I did with my family a few years ago. It feels like some DS9 fans I've talked with enjoy the show greatly because it takes the idea of Star Trek's vision of the future as being unrealistic, perhaps a sham, and impossible to maintain. This is seen as being more realistic, and therefore better. And I hear this and think: As a big DS9 fan, I just reject your premise that it's not hopeful and idealistic. I think DS9 is every bit as idealistic as TNG, it just is willing to explore that a better future isn't perfect and requires work, rather than simply having an assumption that "everything's fixed now, yay!" and moving on. The arc of Changelings on Earth I think is a perfect example of how the show makes things more complicated than TNG ever did, but at the end it's still a hopeful view of the future, with moral characters making the right decisions. All the times we do run into the Federation doing bad things, it's very clear that they are bad things and our moral heroes oppose them. And it's not like DS9 created that. Pretty much every admiral we ever see in Trek, back to TOS, was a villain. DS9's a more mature and complex view of the Federation but no less utopian.
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Aug 8, 2021 17:20
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Grand Fromage posted:As a big DS9 fan, I just reject your premise that it's not hopeful and idealistic. -In The Pale Moonlight So… I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all… I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing, a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it… Computer, erase that entire personal log. I'm sorry, but that's a strong disagree. DS9 was very much written by people who think the edgelord teen tactic of "Good thing actually bad" is good and cool. They clearly try to make the Maquis sound right and someone to root for with their whole concept that the federation is a lie and so on.
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Aug 8, 2021 17:38
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One thing that I will give DS9 credit for is that in the end the scary secret spy organization ends up being potentially one weirdo with an idiosyncratic interpretation of the constitution, and definitely not more than a few weirdo guys, something that other series that pick up the idea don't really seem to get.
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Aug 8, 2021 18:02
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CainFortea posted:-In The Pale Moonlight That’s a pretty big exaggeration based on a single episode that arguably makes the case that what happened was a bad thing. Edit: Like, look at Duet. If you wanted to really over simplify that episode you could reduce it down to “DS9 likes Nazi concentration camp guards and wants to rehabilitate them in the eyes of society” but that is very much not what the episode is about.
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Aug 8, 2021 18:48
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