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Literally the only thing that makes me think of Eva in DeSu2 is the design of the septembertermites, and even then I think I was mostly imagining it because Angels are kind of cool and the DeSu2 bosses mostly look like poo poo now that I look at them again. Nothing else really evokes any of the same themes or tone as Eva, especially the first game. Funky Valentine posted:Does it also have a completely new subplot become the focus in the last half hour? Yes. This analogy runs deep Gaius Marius posted:MCU fans are loving delusional. Watch a different movie series, Marvel fans Jesus. I don't care if people like Marvel movies (I saw Endgame and liked the first 45 mins) but they have definitely approached Harry Potter tier of people asserting that actually they're not only high-art but actually better than contemporary film/lit and that it's totally normal to list which HP house you belong to in your Tinder profile in your late 20s
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Aug 8, 2021 21:09
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Truly Marvel movie fans are deluded into thinking the thing they enjoy is good and talks to them emotionally. Not like the intelligent SMT fans who form deep emotional bonds to video game teenagers and argue for hundreds of pages about thin symbolism over a fairly bog standard anime plotline. Now excuse me while I post my next essay on the themes behind Persona 3 that nobody is going to read. As I've done before in this very thread.
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Aug 8, 2021 21:16
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I mean I get it. I was also young once and so hyperfocused on my fandom that I thought it was the masterpiece to end all masterpieces.
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Aug 8, 2021 21:21
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There were people comparing Homestuck to Dostoyevsky and Shakespeare back in the height of that fandom so I get it.
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Aug 8, 2021 21:24
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I mean finding meaning in the content you love isn’t a big deal and is actually a good thing as long as you aren’t insufferable about it. Only finding meaning in stuff where your expected to is kind of lazy to be honest
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Aug 8, 2021 21:29
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I've always maintained there is great value in pop art. For kids today I guess it's the MCU, for people my age it was The Matrix. Or for video game nerds like us, it was Xenogears or Metal Gear Solid. The ideal is not to come away from...uh...was it Endgame where Thanos had some stupid plan to end overpopulation? Anyway, some dumbass right wing commentator tried to use Thanos' plan as a great example of consequentialist ethics. Nothing wrong with that in theory but it sounds pretty cringe when you have nothing but that. So it's like, by all means, have your great intellectual awakening with MCU or Harry Potter or SMT. Just please don't stop there and think this piece of art has made you a master philosopher who doesn't need to learn anything more. I think the ideal is you go Chaos and then you go read some Nietzsche, which I at least have done.
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Aug 8, 2021 21:39
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I mean I really like the first season of the Digimon anime but I'm not gonna pretend it's Gravity's Rainbow or My Struggle
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Aug 8, 2021 22:02
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Why do you need to, it’s all just media you consume. In the end none of it really matters
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Aug 8, 2021 22:12
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The difference is there is no artistry behind the MCU. They've totally stripped any unique or interesting thing out in lieu of making a 600 hour long commercial.
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Aug 8, 2021 22:37
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The content I consume is artistry, but what you consume is fake man. Lol
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Aug 8, 2021 22:44
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that's not really true as long as they're drawing from and iterating on the comics, the cinematography and narrative might become more depressingly homogenized every year but that's not really true for the source material, so there's always something to it. It's Star Wars that's now devoid of artistry, as the ambitions of dedicated fans that fill their staff collide with Disney's laser-focused need to collapse everything they touch into tiny repeatable symbols that look good in theme parks.
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Aug 8, 2021 22:46
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Gaius Marius posted:The difference is there is no artistry behind the MCU. They've totally stripped any unique or interesting thing out in lieu of making a 600 hour long commercial. This is of course very different from the things I liked as a child, such as Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, He-Man and more. I get that people are frustrated that superhero movies have dominated the blockbuster but if you expected to see a movie blockbuster and not see a commercial designed to milk money out of you in some fashion then you're kind of kidding yourself. Like I fuckin' love Jurassic Park but that poo poo was custom-geared to make me want every dinosaur toy on the market and it worked. It being a well-made and fun to watch film was just part of that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Aug 8, 2021 |
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Aug 8, 2021 22:50
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The difference is that no one's ever touted He Man as being the Greatest Work of Art of the 20th Century, but say that you thought Joker was anything less than a masterpiece and a bunch of chuds will make a ten hour video about why you are wrong and they'll invite you to their channel so that you can apologize for not liking the thing they like.
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Aug 8, 2021 22:54
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Spermando posted:The difference is that no one's ever touted He Man as being the Greatest Work of Art of the 20th Century My dude there is quite literally an ongoing controversy about how the new Netflix He-Man show ruined the immense importance of the old one. Those in fact exact same chuds are making bucketloads of ten hour videos on it.
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Aug 8, 2021 22:55
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I think all of those people started their little cottage industries with Star Wars and comic book movies and now they've figured out they can milk anything 30 year olds vaguely remember from their childhood and say how it's being ruined.
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Aug 8, 2021 22:58
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ImpAtom posted:This is of course very different from the things I liked as a child, such as Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, He-Man and more. Not comparing it to that, were comparing MCU to Casino or Metropolis as the legions of MCU watchers apparently do unironically.
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Aug 8, 2021 22:58
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Spermando posted:The difference is that no one's ever touted He Man as being the Greatest Work of Art of the 20th Century, but say that you thought Joker was anything less than a masterpiece and a bunch of chuds will make a ten hour video about why you are wrong and they'll invite you to their channel so that you can apologize for not liking the thing they like. Joker was good
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Aug 8, 2021 22:59
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ImpAtom posted:This is of course very different from the things I liked as a child, such as Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, He-Man and more. Jem and the Holograms never got enough credit. It was inspirational to girls and young gay boys. Even a toy commercial can have great meaning to a person's life. Helps if it has incredibly catchy pop music, too.
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Aug 8, 2021 23:01
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Gaius Marius posted:Not comparing it to that, were comparing MCU to Casino or Metropolis as the legions of MCU watchers apparently do unironically. Look, I'm old enough to have been through a lot of fandoms and this ship happens with all of them. Star Wars was the perfect Monomyth, the ideal form which all stories are based on, literally mathematically perfect. Harry Potter was the most relevant book series of the 20th century and more important to teach in schools than old books kids don't care about. Dragonball Z shows that animation can be for MATURE ADULTS not like those pussy kid shows. Akira is the most visually stunning and beautiful film ever created. Star Trek is the ideal of science fiction and stands head and shoulders above what came before. Persona is so much more in-depth and meaningful than any other game and stands among the best movies and films of our time. Stephen Universe is the greatest story ever told Etc, etc, etc. This poo poo ain't new. You hear about it more with Marvel because Marvel is an absurdly huge and successful thing right now and has dominated pop culture for the past decade. NikkolasKing posted:Jem and the Holograms never got enough credit. It was inspirational to girls and young gay boys. Oh, I'm not saying it can't be. I know multiple people who credit Harry Potter of all things for helping them come to terms with being trans. (Which makes JK Rowling's poo poo even worse.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Aug 8, 2021 |
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Aug 8, 2021 23:05
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oh i recall seeing a tweet once telling mcu fans to chill out about scorsese saying that 'mcu flicks aren't really Mega Art' and that its fine if you like that kind of stuff, but that also u gotta put movies and the context they're made into like perspective or something i think the lesson here is, to like or dislike stuff in a chill way and not be mega intense about it (unlike fandoms) 
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Aug 8, 2021 23:42
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dc movies aren't very good either but they're still way better than anything disney for not being as aggressive about stamping out any sign that movies are things made by human beings
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Aug 9, 2021 00:22
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Motto posted:dc movies aren't very good either but they're still way better than anything disney for not being as aggressive about stamping out any sign that movies are things made by human beings You clearly haven't seen WW84.
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Aug 9, 2021 01:31
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NikkolasKing posted:The comparisons to Eva, which usually does come in the form of "Eva rip off," has always irked me a lot. Xenogears has basically nothing in common with Eva in terms of its characters or themes. They both play madlibs with the bible, there's that I guess
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Aug 9, 2021 01:34
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Remember, everyone, Evangelion created the concepts of 'doing dark things with Christian imagery' and 'being serious about giant robots'. You see, before 1996, nobody had ever done either of those things, ever, and then Evangelion came along and did both things!
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Aug 9, 2021 01:41
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Inched my way back into my NG+ play for Nocturne and looked online for a more reasonable way to earn macca that I did find. Bought back my L65 Odin with Attack All, so I can finally just stream roll all of the poo poo that isn't reflect-phys from the prison (which I finished pretty quickly earlier this afternoon) to the end. Though this time my goal will be through the labyrinth if I ever play enough to finish it again. There are many other games to get to and only three months until 5 hits.
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Aug 9, 2021 02:03
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ImpAtom posted:Like I fuckin' love Jurassic Park but that poo poo was custom-geared to make me want every dinosaur toy on the market and it worked. It being a well-made and fun to watch film was just part of that.  I was already a dinosaur nerd by the time it came out. 
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Aug 9, 2021 02:37
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After a month or two hiatus, I've picked Nocturne back up. I'm at Amala Temple. About how much of the game is left?
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Aug 9, 2021 03:54
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All I really remember of DeSu2 is this guy and his theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXUsERtj_rg
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Aug 9, 2021 03:58
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Detective No. 27 posted:After a month or two hiatus, I've picked Nocturne back up. I'm at Amala Temple. About how much of the game is left? Two more full dungeons and a sort of mini dungeon and s short subway section. I dunno about exact time. 5 hours? 7? MonsieurChoc posted:All I really remember of DeSu2 is this guy and his theme: He is certainly one of the best parts of DeSu 2. But I think the entire cast is pretty great with one or two very notable exceptions.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:15
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NikkolasKing posted:The comparisons to Eva, which usually does come in the form of "Eva rip off," has always irked me a lot. Xenogears has basically nothing in common with Eva in terms of its characters or themes. Xenogears absolutely has a ton of thematic similarity to Evangelion, both because they are covering similar ideas and because they are both in the robot genre which contains a whole lot of similar ideas. The parts of Xenogears that are not Evangelion are usually some other robot series instead. This isn't unintentional or accidental, Xenogears was a big ol' love letter to robots at the time and that shows from everything from character design to voice actor choice. Thematically it also borrows a lot of similar ideas and while you can write that off as "anime" it's worth noting that at the time Xenogears came out Evangelion was such a significant factor on anime storylines that you can't measure its impact just on the most blunt references. Even a character like Esmerelda owes at least some of her inspiration directly to Rei Ayanami. And again the parts that are not Evangelion are something very similar, like Maria having Just loving Giant Robo as her mecha or Ellie's whole thing with Drive and her funnels being a really blunt reference to Cyber Newtype Gundam plots. Devil Survivor 2 on the other hand doesn't have a ton of thematic references but it exchanges those for extremely loving blunt direct references. The Septentriones are born so blatantly from the Angels that several of them are direct one-for-one clones. You've got the one with huge defense and a giant laser, the one that splits into two that have to be destroyed at the same time, the flying one that drops bombs, and of course the one that takes the form of a silver-haired boy who is openly friendly to the protagonist. Sometimes they get spicy and create one that is a slight variation or mix two together.(Such as changing the "you need all the power in Japan to shoot a single sniper rifle shot" and "We have to throw a giant magic spear" to "We have to use all the magic power of our barriers to throw a giant magic spear") While the story is its own SMT thing its actual plot beats are predictable almost to a T because of how closely it mirrors Evangelion's structure if not its themes. When someone says "(x) is a rip-off/clone" they don't mean "it is literally the exact same thing." They mean it is heavily inspired by something that existed before it. In the case of something like Evangelion it's going to be pretty unavoidable because Evangelion was absurdly influential on anime as a whole. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 04:29
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NikkolasKing posted:Two more full dungeons and a sort of mini dungeon and s short subway section. Oh cool. I'm farther than I thought. I beat one of the bosses so far, Albion. Also I must have not been paying attention when running around and must have let some of my demons overwrite Dark Might. Oh well.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:39
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yeah lol at anyone saying desu 2 isn't similar to NGE. it's basically a total rip off of it. not that that's so bad, but it's sad because the first game has prob my favorite smt story (even if it is all extremely backloaded)
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Aug 9, 2021 04:59
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Again, it's very clearly a bit they're doing. Like that's the joke.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:01
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waiting for DS3 where it takes the plot wholesale from Bokurano
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Aug 9, 2021 05:01
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ImpAtom posted:Xenogears absolutely has a ton of thematic similarity to Evangelion, both because they are covering similar ideas and because they are both in the robot genre which contains a whole lot of similar ideas. The parts of Xenogears that are not Evangelion are usually some other robot series instead. This isn't unintentional or accidental, Xenogears was a big ol' love letter to robots at the time and that shows from everything from character design to voice actor choice. Thematically it also borrows a lot of similar ideas and while you can write that off as "anime" it's worth noting that at the time Xenogears came out Evangelion was such a significant factor on anime storylines that you can't measure its impact just on the most blunt references. Even a character like Esmerelda owes at least some of her inspiration directly to Rei Ayanami. And again the parts that are not Evangelion are something very similar, like Maria having Just loving Giant Robo as her mecha or Ellie's whole thing with Drive and her funnels being a really blunt reference to Cyber Newtype Gundam plots. I dunno, I guess it's just how I look at the stories. What is Xenogears at its core? A traditional Hero's Journey and a love story. Is is ultimately about Fei coming to terms with his past and his personalities and getting the girl. Eva is in no medium except maybe the manga anything resembling love story. Shinji's arc is nothing like Fei's. The narrative of Evangelion is "subversive." That's what all the Eva fans always tell me, it was criticizing and deconstructing the mecha genre. Xenogears was just a very elaborate, very well-written but entirely "straight" narrative. As you noted, it's a love letter to mecha. I'm not an Eva fan, I watched it once back in 2013. I did have a lot of discussions with actual Eva fans, though. What they got rom Eva is in no ways what I got from Xenogears. Xenogears' wildly different plot and characters is just one part of that.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:15
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speaking of evangelion, 3.0+1.0, the final rebuild movie that's been a decade in the making, comes to Amazon Prime this friday. please look forward to it.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:20
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Jurassic Park? Moar liek... Your rear end is Parked, amirite?  I watched JP1 a lot as a kid, since it was a gift my dad got from a friend. Still love the heck out of it. I honestly have no beef with the MCU movies as a concept that exists. Hell, I'm a fan of some of the comics. Thanks to the enthusiasm some of my friends/relatives/S.O.'s across the years (including my now wife) have for the franchise, I've seen all of them. Some of them as many as three times. They're alright, I guess. I just wish that:
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Aug 9, 2021 05:23
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Whoops, I clicked on a Cinema Discusso thread by accident
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Aug 9, 2021 05:27
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I still plan to do bigger effort-post as to why Daniel Day-Lewis can go gently caress himself. Anyway, back on topic: I've made peace with the fact that I'm not getting any Limited Edition of SMT V. And that's okay. 
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Aug 9, 2021 05:40
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His role as bill the butcher is the best acting I've ever seen.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:43
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