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HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
At that difference I'd take the mortgage for sure.

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pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
:same:

unknown
Nov 16, 2002
Ain't got no stinking title yet!


Go with the mortgage, but something to keep in mind is selling the house when the time comes - what's the selling market like. (because it won't be Toronto where you sneeze and a buyer shows up). If you ever need the capital out, it might take a bit (months) to get a buyer.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


I would usually say gently caress mortgages and gently caress real estate but holy poo poo that's a drat good deal son.

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy
I am trying to figure out the most painless option for my parents when it comes to investing. They are not financially savvy at all and I think they have all their money in a savings account with BMO. They are good with money in the sense that they save a lot, but I want to help them meet their potential. Looking at the offerings from BMO and they don't look amazing, but there is a ton of stuff on their website with MERs above 2% on their mutual funds. I think something like questrade would be a bridge too far for them. Is the best option trying to get them to open a TD account for their E-series offerings?

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

Tsyni posted:

I am trying to figure out the most painless option for my parents when it comes to investing. They are not financially savvy at all and I think they have all their money in a savings account with BMO. They are good with money in the sense that they save a lot, but I want to help them meet their potential. Looking at the offerings from BMO and they don't look amazing, but there is a ton of stuff on their website with MERs above 2% on their mutual funds. I think something like questrade would be a bridge too far for them. Is the best option trying to get them to open a TD account for their E-series offerings?

There's going to be some considerations to be made with people our parent's age, assuming you're 24-35 and your parents are 50+. Things like retirement planning, existing pensions, their current assets (house?), etc will likely play into how they should be investing or not investing. It might be best for them to see a financial planner to nail down a good strategy as they progress into retirement age.

Generally speaking I'd say a questrade account with biweekly or monthly contributions into XBAL/VBAL or something like that would be appropriate but the risk with equities (especially now at all time highs) may not fit their risk profile.

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

VelociBacon posted:

There's going to be some considerations to be made with people our parent's age, assuming you're 24-35 and your parents are 50+. Things like retirement planning, existing pensions, their current assets (house?), etc will likely play into how they should be investing or not investing. It might be best for them to see a financial planner to nail down a good strategy as they progress into retirement age.

Generally speaking I'd say a questrade account with biweekly or monthly contributions into XBAL/VBAL or something like that would be appropriate but the risk with equities (especially now at all time highs) may not fit their risk profile.

Yeah, I'm just trying to maximize the most efficient investment with the least amount of effort. Taking a 2% MER on some BMO mutual fund is better than earning 0.35% interest in their "high interest" savings account, but of course I'm hoping for a slightly better option. I'm just trying to brainstorm the easiest way for them to contribute monthly. I'm mindful of what kind of investments they'll want approaching retirement.

If it's too complicated they will just end up doing nothing, haha.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

Tsyni posted:

Yeah, I'm just trying to maximize the most efficient investment with the least amount of effort. Taking a 2% MER on some BMO mutual fund is better than earning 0.35% interest in their "high interest" savings account, but of course I'm hoping for a slightly better option. I'm just trying to brainstorm the easiest way for them to contribute monthly. I'm mindful of what kind of investments they'll want approaching retirement.

If it's too complicated they will just end up doing nothing, haha.

You might want to look at DRIP. I don't use it and don't really fully understand it but it sounds like something used to make it easier for people to invest, fewer steps, that kinda thing.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Tsyni posted:

Yeah, I'm just trying to maximize the most efficient investment with the least amount of effort. Taking a 2% MER on some BMO mutual fund is better than earning 0.35% interest in their "high interest" savings account, but of course I'm hoping for a slightly better option. I'm just trying to brainstorm the easiest way for them to contribute monthly. I'm mindful of what kind of investments they'll want approaching retirement.

If it's too complicated they will just end up doing nothing, haha.

Since they’re already with BMO, take a look at their asset allocation ETFs: https://canadiancouchpotato.com/2020/12/31/inside-the-bmo-asset-allocation-etfs/ I think they’d need to open an account or three at InvestorLine, but moving the money in will be less steps since they’re already with BMO for banking. Setting up a DRIP is a good idea in the otherwise fortuitous event that they never look at the account after getting it set up and funded.

TD e-Series mutual funds are nice because buying mutual funds is easier than ETFs, but if you’re not already with TD I think you end up needing a chequing account with TD and then you’re shuffling money around an extra step or two.

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

pokeyman posted:

Since they’re already with BMO, take a look at their asset allocation ETFs: https://canadiancouchpotato.com/2020/12/31/inside-the-bmo-asset-allocation-etfs/ I think they’d need to open an account or three at InvestorLine, but moving the money in will be less steps since they’re already with BMO for banking. Setting up a DRIP is a good idea in the otherwise fortuitous event that they never look at the account after getting it set up and funded.

TD e-Series mutual funds are nice because buying mutual funds is easier than ETFs, but if you’re not already with TD I think you end up needing a chequing account with TD and then you’re shuffling money around an extra step or two.

Awesome, thank you. It wasn't immediately obvious that BMO had something like this.

virinvictus
Nov 10, 2014
Is Canadian Couch Potato guy done blogging? I know he was done with his podcast, but I like his style.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
He still posts, but very occasionally. The archive is still great reading. He'll reply if you email him, and I think he's still actively replying to comments on blog posts old and new. But I feel like he's passed the torch of more news-y posts.

Nofeed
Sep 14, 2008

virinvictus posted:

Is Canadian Couch Potato guy done blogging? I know he was done with his podcast, but I like his style.

He’s with PWL now!

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
Signing up with Questrade and dumping the lot into an ETF honestly didn't take long. If you sat down with them and went through it'd be pretty simple.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

I dumped my entire TFSA into Moderna at $40. :homebrew:

Frank Dillinger
May 16, 2007
Jawohl mein herr!

McGavin posted:

I dumped my entire TFSA into Moderna at $40. :homebrew:

Jesus. When did (did?) you get out?

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

I'm still in. :smug:

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


If you have someone who doesn’t know anything about buying securities and doesn’t care to know, wealthsimple is a real neat solution. They can just put their money into a 50-50 portfolio and just forget about it. I have my girlfriend on it because she literally has no idea about stocks and just wants to have a pot somewhere to put her money monthly that will grow without getting completely fleeced on fees.

RuBisCO
May 1, 2009

This is definitely not a lie



My parents are two years off of retirement and came into a bunch of money earlier this year from selling one of their properties. Most of the money is going towards mortgages/debts/taxes, but they gave me control of their maxed out TFSAs and told me to do something with it.

What does this thread recommend? They plan to primarily live off CPP/OAS/GIS and maybe renting out some suites in their primary residence. All they really want is to use the TFSAs to generate some extra monthly income.

I tentatively plan to shove their money entirely into a VCNS fund and switch to VRIF when they actually commit to retire. This should give them ~500$ a month for at least 25 years. I hope, anyway.

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


How necessary is income? I'd personally stick to -bal at the least, preferably -gro.

RuBisCO
May 1, 2009

This is definitely not a lie



Guest2553 posted:

How necessary is income? I'd personally stick to -bal at the least, preferably -gro.

Gonna say somewhat necessary. It would be nice for them to have as comfortable of a retirement as possible, they've both slaved away in heavy labour for 40+ years as uneducated immigrants.

Since I'm managing it, it'd be nice to have VRIF cash out monthly and auto-push the funds to their chequing account.

That said, I'm surprised to hear -bal or -gro suggested, since I figured that was too risky for them to have as a draw down income fund in retirement. Like, say there's a significant correction and they don't have the timeline to recover from it.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

RuBisCO posted:

Gonna say somewhat necessary. It would be nice for them to have as comfortable of a retirement as possible, they've both slaved away in heavy labour for 40+ years as uneducated immigrants.

Since I'm managing it, it'd be nice to have VRIF cash out monthly and auto-push the funds to their chequing account.

That said, I'm surprised to hear -bal or -gro suggested, since I figured that was too risky for them to have as a draw down income fund in retirement. Like, say there's a significant correction and they don't have the timeline to recover from it.

I would agree that it seems too risky to be that heavily into equities. I feel like I'm becoming the guy in this thread who says this to every post but this kind of situation is a really good time to talk to someone professionally. It's a lot of money, it's a complicated situation with their retirement needs and existing assets, they're going to be in a very low risk profile, it just feels like it's worth the relatively low cost of having a one-time meeting with a financial advisor/planner, especially one that deals with fixed income/retirement situations.

Honestly even if the professional provides reasonable arguments for why that money should be at least partially tied to equities and then there's a massive market correction, I have to think it's so much better that it was recommended by that professional and not yourself in terms of family dynamics.

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.
Yep as the family “handle our investing choices” guy, I can confirm it’s a no-win situation and it would be best to get a pro involved. Heads - we made a decent return for which you get no credit or remuneration, Tails - you clearly hosed up and we should have listened to Janet from HR’s stock tips.

The combination of involving a pro but vetting and keeping that pro honest is likely a solid choice. That’s what I would do if I could have another go around of involving myself with the parents.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

RuBisCO posted:

That said, I'm surprised to hear -bal or -gro suggested, since I figured that was too risky for them to have as a draw down income fund in retirement. Like, say there's a significant correction and they don't have the timeline to recover from it.

There's an argument that the bigger risk, if you're retired for a long time, is running out of money. Retaining a sizeable equity portion helps avoid that.

I'm not offering that as advice for your situation specifically, because I have absolutely no idea how I'd approach a retirement drawdown, and when it's time for me to figure it out I'ma do a ton of research and maybe call in the pros. Until I do that, can't really make good suggestions.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Fixed Income has been really awful for a while now and given the low rates environment right now as well as the possibility for high inflation coming up, it’s likely to get worse. Definitely you’ll need some equities to maintain growth long term, but as others have said it’s good to have a pro here. It’s not just about asset allocation, but it’s also to help your parents understand the risk involved and all the possible outcomes of a strategy, and also for the advisor to understand your parent’s tolerance for risk and come up with a strategy appropriately. There are other products, such as annuities, that might also apply to their situation. Ultimately, they have to be completely comfortable with whatever strategy they go with, and a professional financial advisor will be a huge help with that.

RuBisCO
May 1, 2009

This is definitely not a lie



Thanks all, I'll go scrounging around for a fee-only advisor.

Shofixti
Nov 23, 2005

Kyaieee!

The Globe and Mail posted:

National Bank Direct Brokerage, a middle-size company on the rise in my annual broker ranking, has eliminated commissions on online trading of Canadian and U.S. stocks and ETFs. There’s no fine print. In any type of NBDB account, registered or non-registered, you can buy and sell stocks and ETFs listed on North American stock exchanges at zero cost and with no minimums.

Full article

It seems like competition is finally ratcheting up in the online trading space. I'm curious to see how long it takes other players to match. I assume they're planning to make money in a similar way to Robinhood by selling information about the order flows to hedge funds and such?

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Not always. Wealthsimple trade for example makes money on exorbitant exchange rate spreads, and I think nothing or a very small amount on payment for order flow. If they make significant money on pfof you’d know about, not being completely transparent about this is a great way to get the SEC up your rear end.

Shofixti
Nov 23, 2005

Kyaieee!

You’re right. Now that I’m not phone posting i was able to take in the whole article better. Bolded relevant part on where the profit will come from.

The Globe and Mail posted:

A bank-owned Canadian online broker has finally matched the zero-commission deals long available to U.S. investors, putting pressure on competitors to follow suit.

National Bank Direct Brokerage, a middle-size company on the rise in my annual broker ranking, has eliminated commissions on online trading of Canadian and U.S. stocks and ETFs. There’s no fine print. In any type of NBDB account, registered or non-registered, you can buy and sell stocks and ETFs listed on North American stock exchanges at zero cost and with no minimums.

NBDB’s old commission was $6.95, at the lower end of a pricing spectrum that goes up to just under $10 at big bank-owned outfits such as TD Direct Investing, RBC Direct Investing and BMO InvestorLine. Other players such as Questrade and Virtual Brokers charge less, but you’ll still pay at least $2 to $5 per trade.

NBDB joins the investing app Wealthsimple Trade in offering zero-commission trading, but the two provide a much different investing experience. Wealthsimple Trade is primarily a platform for trading stocks on your smartphone, though there’s also a web-based service. The appeal is mainly for investors who do everything on their phone and active traders who know what they want and need little in the way of deep market data and research.
NBDB works under the usual online brokerage rules, which means no advice to clients. But it’s much more of a full-service operation. You can buy bonds online, consult research by National Bank Financial and Morningstar analysts and monitor your portfolio diversification and performance.

Zero commissions came to the U.S. market when the Robinhood trading app was founded in 2013. Online brokerages such as Charles Schwab eliminated commissions in the fall of 2019, a development that was met only with cricket sounds in Canada.

The obvious question raised by NBDB’s move is whether its competitors will match it. NBDB president Claude-Frédéric Robert noted that it took years for U.S. brokers to match Robinhood, but the move by Schwab brought other brokers into line immediately. “Hopefully, our [pricing advantage] will last longer than a day,” he joked.

The move to zero commissions at NBDB comes at a crucial moment for an online brokerage business that was swamped in late 2020 and early this year by new clients eager to participate in the pandemic bull market for stocks. The stocks frenzy has died down, which presents a challenge to brokers in attracting new clients and keeping all their existing customers interested, active and loyal. Zero commissions give NBDB a strong advantage over the competition for cost-conscious investors.

Competing aggressively on cost is a whole new look for Canadian brokers, who have consistently charged more than U.S. online brokers. The last time fees changed in a big way at the big bank-owned companies was about seven years ago, when RBC Direct Investing introduced a flat $9.95 commission.

Trading commissions have traditionally provided a significant portion of the revenue generated by online brokers. Mr. Robert said NBDB will rely on revenue generated through various account fees, lending clients money to buy stocks (margin loans), exchanging client money to and from U.S. dollars and interest generated on client cash balances. A marginal amount of revenue comes from routing trades of a small number of U.S. stocks to various market players, he added.

Zero-commission trading should appeal to ETF investors as well as investors who prefer stocks, although it’s already possible to buy ETFs at no cost through several companies. Questrade and Virtual Brokers charge nothing to buy ETFs and regular commissions to sell. BMO InvestorLine, Qtrade Direct Investing and Scotia iTrade have a limited list of ETFs that can be both bought and sold at no cost. Before Monday, NBDB offered commission-free ETF trades to clients buying at least 100 shares.

If you’re a customer of a broker that charges commissions, you now have some questions to answer: How much are you paying in total to trade stocks and ETFs, how big a drag on performance is that cost, and is it justifiable in light of the value you’re getting from your broker through tools and resources to manage your portfolio?

NBDB has made a bet that a lot of people will do this analysis and be open to change.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

I had a quick look at the terms to see if it would be worth it to transfer and the things that stopped me were:

1. Lots of 404s on their web page doesn't give me confidence in their self-serve application
2. They don't cover enough of the transfer out fees
3. Nickel and dimeing over dormant account fees
4. No other value prop other than zero commissions, such as securities lending or securities backed loans at mortgage rates

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Just throwing this in here, but Interactive Brokers very recently eliminated all account minimums and inactivity fees, which has completely changed the game for me. They will still charge a minimum $1 commission on trades, but the execution quality of the trades and the currency exchange rates are second to none, you don't even have to do a Norbert's gambit the spreads are that tight. They don't cover transfer out fees but honestly I put them as the best value brokerage in Canada right now if you're planning on doing anything other than dump everything into VGRO. If any portion of your income is in another currency, you should be using these guys. But that's just my 2c on my current favoured brokerage.

qhat fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 24, 2021

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

qhat posted:

Just throwing this in here, but Interactive Brokers very recently eliminated all account minimums and inactivity fees, which has completely changed the game for me. They will still charge a minimum $1 commission on trades, but the execution quality of the trades and the currency exchange rates are second to none, you don't even have to do a Norbert's gambit the spreads are that tight. They don't cover transfer out fees but honestly I put them as the best value brokerage in Canada right now if you're planning on doing anything other than dump everything into VGRO. If any portion of your income is in another currency, you should be using these guys. But that's just my 2c on my current favoured brokerage.

That's interesting for currency conversion. I don't mind doing Norbert's Gambit but I also don't mind not doing it, especially if it's even cheaper. Thanks for mentioning it!

edit: I'm finding out how the logistics work, but I'm interested in any info you have to share, especially around getting USD in and CAD out. Apparently a Canadian account can't accept ACH but can do bill pay? Can I EFT the money out once it's CAD, or do I have to wire it?

edit: One free withdrawal of any type per month, then a couple bucks each beyond that. EFT seems to be one of the supported types.

edit: Hmm. "They're not a remittance business so you'll get a phone call from compliance if you frequently have deposits and withdrawals close to each other." (cite)

pokeyman fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Aug 25, 2021

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


pokeyman posted:

That's interesting for currency conversion. I don't mind doing Norbert's Gambit but I also don't mind not doing it, especially if it's even cheaper. Thanks for mentioning it!

edit: I'm finding out how the logistics work, but I'm interested in any info you have to share, especially around getting USD in and CAD out. Apparently a Canadian account can't accept ACH but can do bill pay? Can I EFT the money out once it's CAD, or do I have to wire it?

edit: One free withdrawal of any type per month, then a couple bucks each beyond that. EFT seems to be one of the supported types.

edit: Hmm. "They're not a remittance business so you'll get a phone call from compliance if you frequently have deposits and withdrawals close to each other." (cite)

For both CAD deposits and withdrawals, they accept Wire and EFT, and Bill pay also for deposits. I usually just have e*trade (company account) wire the USD portion of my income to a USD Savings account at my bank, and then use EFT on IBKR to deposit the cash directly from the savings account, and then convert the currency as I need. I almost never withdraw from my portfolio and deposit once every 6 months so I've never run into issues around compliance.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

I am holding XAW in my RRSP but I wanted to switch to something like VT or VTI to avoid the 15% withholding.

I didn't really want to do Norbert's gambit with DLR, but I recently discovered the existence of XAW.U, which means I use XAW to do Norbert's gambit without having to buy/sell DLR and having my money out of market while the journaling settles.

Hope this info is useful to someone out there.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
I don't think XAW.TO/XAW.U are suitable for Norbert's Gambit as they're different securities (different CUSIPs), but if your end goal is shares of XAW then that definitely saves a step!

Mantle
May 15, 2004

pokeyman posted:

I don't think XAW.TO/XAW.U are suitable for Norbert's Gambit as they're different securities (different CUSIPs), but if your end goal is shares of XAW then that definitely saves a step!

Aw bummer. I found this too. https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/jwjt00/can_you_use_norbits_gambit_with_etfs_like_xawu_to/

What is the reason why Blackrock or whoever purposely would create them with different CUSIPs? What's the point of XAW.U at all then?

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Mantle posted:

Aw bummer. I found this too. https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/jwjt00/can_you_use_norbits_gambit_with_etfs_like_xawu_to/

What is the reason why Blackrock or whoever purposely would create them with different CUSIPs? What's the point of XAW.U at all then?

Not sure what the story is. Maybe it's more difficult or annoying to use one CUSIP? Or maybe XAW.U was a different fund at some point and they renamed it?

Also (and I'm not even close to an expert here so don't take my word for it) I'm not sure there's a difference between XAW.TO and XAW.U when it comes to foreign withholding taxes, since they have the same holdings and are both domiciled in Canada.

I assume the point is what you (wanted to?) use it for: buying without exchanging currency. That's it.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

pokeyman posted:

Not sure what the story is. Maybe it's more difficult or annoying to use one CUSIP? Or maybe XAW.U was a different fund at some point and they renamed it?

Also (and I'm not even close to an expert here so don't take my word for it) I'm not sure there's a difference between XAW.TO and XAW.U when it comes to foreign withholding taxes, since they have the same holdings and are both domiciled in Canada.

I assume the point is what you (wanted to?) use it for: buying without exchanging currency. That's it.

I don't want to hold XAW.U as a position in my RRSP. What I wanted to do is change my position in XAW (CAD) to VT (USD) or VTI (USD) using Norbert's gambit. I was hoping to do it using XAW.U instead of DLR.U.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Mantle posted:

I don't want to hold XAW.U as a position in my RRSP. What I wanted to do is change my position in XAW (CAD) to VT (USD) or VTI (USD) using Norbert's gambit. I was hoping to do it using XAW.U instead of DLR.U.

Ah, I misunderstood.

Someday I'ma get on the same train. One part I'm not sure about is how the foreign withholding tax is recovered. Is it automatic, like the fund manager doesn't withhold it? Do you get a tax slip from the fund manager that includes the relevant info? Or do you have to calculate it yourself?

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VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

pokeyman posted:

Ah, I misunderstood.

Someday I'ma get on the same train. One part I'm not sure about is how the foreign withholding tax is recovered. Is it automatic, like the fund manager doesn't withhold it? Do you get a tax slip from the fund manager that includes the relevant info? Or do you have to calculate it yourself?

It doesn't get given to you in the first place, you don't have to do anything you just get a little less.

That's my understanding anyways I'm no expert.

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