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I assume they have taken on that stupid burden because they are buddies with Wick? It seems extremely dead as a product line, even if you ignore all the books they have to produce with some kind of money? What motivation could they have?
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Aug 9, 2021 01:50
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Posting about Vampire on the Devil Page.
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Aug 9, 2021 01:53
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Mors Rattus posted:I understand it's been a whole lot of just not communicating their plans to anyone. Yeah, they haven't said a thing as far as I know. People've been assuming a lot, as it will be like 2.5E or whatever with better rules but it's just radio silence.
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Aug 9, 2021 02:20
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Halloween Jack posted:Posting about Vampire on the Devil Page. Taking this opportunity to say that the christmas horror one-shot I’m doing this year is Nights Black Agents and I am very excited to run it. I also wanted to ask if people had done one-shots in NBA or listened/watched/read AARs on them, and could give opinions or point out pitfalls. The 2018 & 2019 ones were in Trail of Cthulhu so I’m roughly familiar with things in NBA.
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Aug 9, 2021 02:47
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There is, predictably, a mini series on the One Shot podcast GMed by Ken Hite.
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Aug 9, 2021 03:45
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We're 666 pages into this thread. How appropriate that we're talking about cursed KickStarters.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:29
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Seventh Sea went bust after its own 7-digit Kickstarter after all (and hey, look who was in charge of managing it!). It could have been worse. I remember hearing Wick talking on a podcast about how they went live with the Kickstarter but didn't initially post the stretch goals. In the first hour, funding blew through what would have been all their stretch goals, so Wick called Diaz-Truman and told him they needed to revise the stretch goals. As for the board game, it didn't fail twice as much as the funding wasn't on the right trajectory. (I think they canceled the second attempt at the board game with a week to go and with 93% funded--odds are it would have funded.) It was the first time where I had a sneaking suspicion that new Kickstarters were floating the old Kickstarters they'd run out of money for.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:12
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My RPG collection came up in a LAN thread on here and I had to shamefully admit I did not have stats to fight Jesus. Specifically Jesus. I have White Wolf’s Time of Judgment if you want to fight literally the Christian God, I have lots of avatars and deities and proxies with stats for D&D, I have Godbound and Exalted and Nobilis but no actual stats to fight Jesus. I have let you down, friends in the Satanic Panic.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:15
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There's a 3rd party Pathfinder sourcebook which made stats for 4 different kinds of Jesus. Edit: I reviewed it way back in the day. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 05:29
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Warthur posted:People who have a better handle on the 7th Sea Kickstarter than me: how has Chaosium taking over the line affected things? Are they developing any new plans for the line or is it a "let's just get the stuff we promised people out the door and call the job done" situation? I got a notification that one of the supplements got added to my backerkit. Unfortunately 7th Sea 2e is so fundamentally broken that even though first edition was my first TTRPG, I don't even have enough curiosity to download the new book.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:30
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I bought 2nd Ed. 7th Sea's corebook at Gencon... uh, 2018, I think, and got a few chapters in before I slapped my forehead at the realization they had completely left out the Exploding 10s mechanic from the book while referencing it in various places. Like... Just not there. If someone can correct me on that, please do. I hadn't ever considered asking for a refund for an RPG before that. E: Hail Satan
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Aug 9, 2021 05:33
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Isn't Jesus in M20 Gods and Monsters?
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Aug 9, 2021 05:41
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Libertad! posted:There's a 3rd party Pathfinder sourcebook which made stats for 4 different kinds of Jesus. I'm pleased to know "my" Jesus as a UU was an actually well-statted one. And yeah, I knew there were a bunch of books with stats for him (although I was thinking more early 3e 3pp stuff) I just don't own any myself. But for $2 or so for a pathfinder version? not bad.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:43
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quote:Constant—detect evil, discern lies (DC 21), fly, true 
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Aug 9, 2021 05:49
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Libertad! posted:We're 666 pages into this thread. Not so much cursed but the Pillars of Eternity card game sucked rear end
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Aug 9, 2021 07:31
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Eastmabl posted:It could have been worse. I remember hearing Wick talking on a podcast about how they went live with the Kickstarter but didn't initially post the stretch goals. On the one hand, the 7th Sea kickstarter seems like a complete failure of project management on every level, on the other hand I will admit that occasionally you do see projects blow way past expectations and then the creators wind up scrambling to fill what they feel is a void of obligation. People are primed to fall into the trap of thinking "oh poo poo I need a ton of stretch goals to match all this money I'm getting" instead of just giving themselves a high-five and enjoying the bigger budget.
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Aug 9, 2021 08:02
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Yeah I almost always prefer the "hey we are gonna pay the staff and contractors more" after they blow past the stretch goals they actually planned and thought out.
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Aug 9, 2021 08:05
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Nuns with Guns posted:I feel bad for 7th Sea 2e, because you could tell they wanted to address a lot of the racism and stereotyping problems inherent in the world they'd created piecemeal for 1e. They brought on minority writers and skilled map-makers to create a better version of the world. But then the wheels fell off the train and the whole thing slid into a ravine. The mechanics were the same way. They had some neat ideas, but rushed it badly to get to print for GenCon, so left out major systems like How Boats Work, and didn't playtest the combat at all. Swordsmen, the main focus of the game, were irredeemably broken as written. Dexo posted:Yeah I almost always prefer the "hey we are gonna pay the staff and contractors more" after they blow past the stretch goals they actually planned and thought out. I feel like 'cool, we're paying everyone better and maybe going for the more ambitious art ideas' is the right answer to murdering stretch goals. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 11:14
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Dexo posted:Yeah I almost always prefer the "hey we are gonna pay the staff and contractors more" after they blow past the stretch goals they actually planned and thought out. This is absolutely the ideal, yeah, but a lot of designers and publishers are gunshy about the inevitable backlash they tend to receive from people who think "paying people more" is a waste of money, the attitude is changing though, just slowly.
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Aug 9, 2021 11:26
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BlackIronHeart posted:I bought 2nd Ed. 7th Sea's corebook at Gencon... uh, 2018, I think, and got a few chapters in before I slapped my forehead at the realization they had completely left out the Exploding 10s mechanic from the book while referencing it in various places. Like... Just not there. If someone can correct me on that, please do. I hadn't ever considered asking for a refund for an RPG before that. While I'm certainly not going to say 7th Sea 2e is a mechanically sound system in a lot of respects, I think you're mistaken on this one. Dice explode when you have 5 ranks in a skill (p. 146) or if you have 3 or more dramatic wounds (p. 180). On both of those pages it defines what "explode" means, so it's not even like they included the rule but forgot to define it.
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Aug 9, 2021 12:49
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The one thing I remember about 7th Sea 2e was that killing someone ‘in cold blood’ (with quite a convoluted list of requirements for something being ‘in cold blood’) meant your character was lost and became a villain NPC. Which struck me as a needlessly player antagonistic way to do in-game morality.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:06
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What little I know of 7th Sea suggests that it is not actually very interested in the Age of Sail.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:24
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In 1E, if memory serves, you basically couldn't actually get on the open sea because it either didn't exist or was filled with magic fire or something. Then later Wick said he totally intended that and the game was never supposed to be about the age of sail piracy but more like Chinese river-trade or something. I'm probably messing up the details because it was just that buck wild of an excuse. And something about extra-dimensional bug people? That game was a god drat mess. The only part I still remember fondly is Mors's F&F.
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Aug 9, 2021 16:01
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You can asume average damage across three nails and but adding max spear damage for a coup de gras against an immobilized Jesus doesn't necessarily give you the correct HP because of the DC10 + 8 fort save.
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Aug 9, 2021 16:09
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Liquid Communism posted:The mechanics were the same way. They had some neat ideas, but rushed it badly to get to print for GenCon, so left out major systems like How Boats Work, and didn't playtest the combat at all. Didn't La Mulana 2 at some point stop adding stretch goals and just stated that the rest of the money would be spent on the employees salaries and subjecting the main lead to "CURRY HELL"?
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Aug 9, 2021 18:04
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Xiahou Dun posted:In 1E, if memory serves, you basically couldn't actually get on the open sea because it either didn't exist or was filled with magic fire or something. Then later Wick said he totally intended that and the game was never supposed to be about the age of sail piracy but more like Chinese river-trade or something. There was no new world. There was nowhere to go. No reason to do open ocean stuff, and thus no reason to develop the types of ships used in the Age of Sail.
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Aug 9, 2021 19:46
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Kai Tave posted:This is absolutely the ideal, yeah, but a lot of designers and publishers are gunshy about the inevitable backlash they tend to receive from people who think "paying people more" is a waste of money, the attitude is changing though, just slowly. I think there's also the issue of how a Dopamine hit from big numbers really throw off business thinking. The original plan was made with a lot of attentiveness to what you can realistically achieve, sharpened by the anxiety of the unknown. That encouraged caution and pragmatic expectations. But Kickstarter encourages a fun, party atmosphere, and once your game exceeds your wildest hopes, you're celebrating, everyone's celebrating, numbers are going up... and now you want to keep the party going. And the best tool for that is dangling more carrots, having more milestones to blow through and announce in Twitter, to bring in the likes and retweets. Plus,this game is something you're passionate about, and you had to temper that passion as you focused on what you knew would work. Now you have popular support, now you're riding high on optimism, now you can do the things you always wanted to do. Kickstarter makes games possible that never could have happened otherwise, but blending your fans and your investors into one group raises a lot of problems that a lot of creators aren't prepared for. And real investors do sometimes trip up projects by trying to upscale too fast, but they generally come with actual business support to pull it off and, more importantly, you're not concerned if they like you. You know their goals aren't the same as yours. With fans, in a small, nerdy niche, it's harder to remember that distance.
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Aug 9, 2021 20:54
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Xiahou Dun posted:In 1E, if memory serves, you basically couldn't actually get on the open sea because it either didn't exist or was filled with magic fire or something. Then later Wick said he totally intended that and the game was never supposed to be about the age of sail piracy but more like Chinese river-trade or something. The main setting in 1e was one big mega-continent that was mostly not-Europe and then not-Asia was fenced off behind an actual towering wall of flames. There was sooooome room for sailing: the not-British, the not-Dutch/Vikings, the not-Spaniards, and the not-Italians had shipping routes along their coasts, and there were a couple long rivers across the landmass. There was also a pirate nation off in the ocean somewhere and further out the not-Caribbean/Africa islands. The minute anything took you into the interior of a country though, you probably wouldn't see a boat again any time soon. There's a reason settings more focused on sailing and boat adventures stick to large open oceans speckled with island clusters. 1e also had a metaplot about a lost alien civilization which it turns out are weird alien mantis people who were the progenitors of humanity, who previously inhabited earth before being cast out of reality. And then beyond that were the progenitor entities who were the progenitors of the mantis alien people, the last remnants of whom were the most powerful godlike entities in the world (and possibly actually God.) e- Anyway, if 7th Sea intrigues anyone at all, just grab the 2e book from somewhere to use as a setting bible, and then transpose the rules from something like Honor + Intrigue or Spellbound Kingdoms. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Aug 11, 2021 |
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Aug 11, 2021 04:51
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Nuns with Guns posted:e- Anyway, if 7th Sea intrigues anyone at all, just grab the 2e book from somewhere to use as a setting bible, and then transpose the rules from something like Honor + Intrigue or Spellbound Kingdoms. Hell, I'm thinking about running a Warhammer campaign sometime soon and just shamelessly stealing from Crescent Empire and Land of Gold and Fire to overwrite Hams', uh... let's just say not great representations of not-Africa and not-the Middle East.
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Aug 11, 2021 09:25
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Xiahou Dun posted:the game was never supposed to be about the age of sail piracy but more like Chinese river-trade or something. if you think about it, a sea is just a really really wide river  Nuns with Guns posted:1e also had a metaplot about a lost alien civilization which it turns out are weird alien mantis people who were the progenitors of humanity, who previously inhabited earth before being cast out of reality. And then beyond that were the progenitor entities who were the progenitors of the mantis alien people, the last remnants of whom were the most powerful godlike entities in the world (and possibly actually God.) wait what? how is that relevant to the game in any way???
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Aug 11, 2021 10:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:wait what? how is that relevant to the game in any way??? It's harder to remember these days but at one point everyone making RPGs was just absolutely in love with metaplots, the dumber and more convoluted the better. It was just a thing your game had to have, relevance be damned.
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Aug 11, 2021 10:33
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it was the 90s (just barely in 7th Sea's case), having a convoluted metaplot that didn't serve any purpose in your game was mandatory
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Aug 11, 2021 11:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:if you think about it, a sea is just a really really wide river Oh, not what so ever. They mostly existed so the Explorers Society had something to find, as the New World was under a magic unknowable force field (?) possibly to keep Kraken sealed there (?!?).
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Aug 11, 2021 11:41
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Let's not forget that one or two of the schools of magic your heroic PCs might be using were later revealed to be a secret plot to weaken the mystical barrier keeping hell from invading, or something like that. White Wolf is the most famous in terms of metaplot, but AEG really rolled out some extremely bottom-tier poo poo.
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Aug 11, 2021 12:40
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HerraS posted:it was the 90s (just barely in 7th Sea's case), having a convoluted metaplot that didn't serve any purpose in your game was mandatory It used to be easier to get an RPG published than a fiction novel.
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Aug 11, 2021 12:53
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That Old Tree posted:Let's not forget that one or two of the schools of magic your heroic PCs might be using were later revealed to be a secret plot to weaken the mystical barrier keeping hell from invading, or something like that. Four of them, not two. And one of them is a secret plot to strengthen it.
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Aug 11, 2021 13:09
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And the Syrneth - the Atlantis-esque lost civilization whose ruins were everywhere - were revealed to be like insect people or something. This was in John Wick's mild defense long after he'd left and people were plugging on without him.
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Aug 11, 2021 13:38
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Dawgstar posted:And the Syrneth - the Atlantis-esque lost civilization whose ruins were everywhere - were revealed to be like insect people or something. This was in John Wick's mild defense long after he'd left and people were plugging on without him. Sort of. There’s several Syrneth races but the grasshoppers were the strongest of them and the ones who got the whole lot locked in Hell.
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Aug 11, 2021 13:50
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Didn't 7th Sea also have a thing where if you're using magic, you're actually strengthening some Lovecraftian whatsits that want to eat reality? Classic Wick dick move, though he certainly wasn't alone in doing that kind of gotcha metaplot stuff.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:53
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Halloween Jack posted:Didn't 7th Sea also have a thing where if you're using magic, you're actually strengthening some Lovecraftian whatsits that want to eat reality? Classic Wick dick move, though he certainly wasn't alone in doing that kind of gotcha metaplot stuff. Depends on the magic. French portals, Spanish fire magic, German acid magic and Italian divination and fate magic all help the grasshoppers in some way, while British glamour magic opposes them. Russian animal magic and Norse rune magic don’t do it either way.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:57
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