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yeah literally any time theyre about to reach a guilty verdict ryuunosuke can literally argue with the jury forever until they agree with him while van zieks has to sit around with his dick in his hands. yet van zieks does not get to do the same if theyre about to reach an innocent verdict. its like an inverse of the pw1-3 situation where the defense is massively advantaged. It works in the moment so it's not really a complaint, it's just funny if you sit around and think about it.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:58
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The jury being able to jump in with a guilty verdict at any moment though just makes it so that this court system is even more stacked against the defense than any we've seen so far (especially since until Ryunosuke brought it back no one did the Summation Examination anyway lmao). So really it's just evening the playing field.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:01
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Regy Rusty posted:The jury being able to jump in with a guilty verdict at any moment though just makes it so that this court system is even more stacked against the defense than any we've seen so far (especially since until Ryunosuke brought it back no one did the Summation Examination anyway lmao). So really it's just evening the playing field. Technically they could jump in with an innocent verdict at any point too? I don't think they ever specified whether the prosecution has the right to perform a summation examination in that case.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:06
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I think there is one case where the jury is about to go 6-0 for not guilty and van Zieks goes "you fuckin idiots the defense's argument is full of holes and also here's some evidence disproving whatever you just said." I forget if he cuts in before or after the last juror pounds the desk, but functionally it's the same thing. I wanna say it's case 1-3 but I'm not sure.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:14
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Spoilers for GAA case 3 - It does actually kindof make sense story-wise for the court to be less favourable to the prosecution than it was in other games. Van Zieks failed to prosecute over a dozen guilty defendants and The Reaper only really makes sense in a context where the courts aren't managing to convict criminals. Now I'm wondering whether the lesson Ryuunosuke took from his British adventure was that the courts back home should be much more favourable to the prosecution
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Aug 11, 2021 16:15
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It is rather funny how in 1-3 and 1-4 he presents barely any of the evidence gathered and the jury immediately moves for convicting. I haven't gotten started on 1-5 yet but the first two cases really portrays the game UK-court system as completely bankrupt.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:23
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it's not just that, it's also how you do blatantly dirty plays like "well this experimental science here isn't actually admissible as evidence in any way nor even fully verified to be correct by mr sholmes but it sure is compelling, isn't it??" and the jury goes "by god my lord, he's right, continue the trial" like franziska did literally this in 2-2 to influence the judge! and yeah like endorph said this is in no way a complaint, it's just funny to think about it like this. i would be drinking on the bench too if i had to put up with this in court every day
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Aug 11, 2021 17:02
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Amppelix posted:oh don't get me wrong, van zieks is still an ace attorney prosecutor At the same time though, he's also constantly getting royally screwed. He doesn't have access to actual information in the case, which usually is a precursor to even being put on trial, so he has to lean on lucky bullshit from an incredibly slim pool of testimony and evidence and with a judge who is constantly threatening to end the trial, requiring yet another longshot hail mary. It's a formula that works for the story, and really it's just as ludicrous both ways
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Aug 11, 2021 17:15
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2-3: ACAB except Gina 
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Aug 11, 2021 18:19
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2-4 intro Hot drat, Mikotoba and the Judge looking crisp. I’m really enjoying how absolutely insane things get in Resolve and I can’t wait to see how the final two cases play out.
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Aug 11, 2021 18:21
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There are a few points where the jury is 6-0 for innocent and the court case still continues while according to the laws it should end right there, so it's not like Summation Examination is stacking the deck too much in our favour. Also GAA2-1 It really annoyed me how we didn't get a NOT GUILTY verdict after the culprit admitted to stabbing the victim. Sure, our friend had means and motive to use poison, but that is an entirely different case and the prosecution's original case had just been proven to be bunk
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Aug 11, 2021 19:13
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Yeah, but by that point we had proven she hadn't died by a stab and we were still on trial for her murder, not another attempted murder.
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Aug 11, 2021 19:20
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Waffleman_ posted:Yeah, but by that point we had proven she hadn't died by a stab and we were still on trial for her murder, not another attempted murder. That is my point, why were we still on trial for her murder? Literally no evidence and no witnesses pointed to our friend having done the poisoning, there was no case
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Aug 11, 2021 19:27
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I think the main point in that idea was that Rei was one of the only people with access to the poison
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Aug 11, 2021 19:31
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ymgve posted:Also GAA2-1 It really annoyed me how we didn't get a NOT GUILTY verdict after the culprit admitted to stabbing the victim. Sure, our friend had means and motive to use poison, but that is an entirely different case and the prosecution's original case had just been proven to be bunk
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Aug 11, 2021 19:41
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Amppelix posted:and yeah like endorph said this is in no way a complaint, it's just funny to think about it like this. i would be drinking on the bench too if i had to put up with this in court every day  ymgve posted:That is my point, why were we still on trial for her murder? Literally no evidence and no witnesses pointed to our friend having done the poisoning, there was no case
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Aug 11, 2021 19:41
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They take basically as many liberties as they need to with the justice system to improve the story. Obviously this is not an accurate representation of the Japanese justice system, neither the modern one nor during the time period in question.
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Aug 11, 2021 19:47
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Yo, Zero Punctuation reviewed this game. https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/the-great-ace-attorney-chronicles-zero-punctuation/
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Aug 11, 2021 20:27
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It's a prominent release and it's just about the only thing The Escapist does anymore, of course he did.
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Aug 11, 2021 20:45
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Waffleman_ posted:It's a prominent release and it's just about the only thing The Escapist does anymore, of course he did. He's basically Atlas holding up the entire website on his shoulders at this stage.
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Aug 11, 2021 20:46
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G2-1, very early on ... is the professor talking to himself here?  
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Aug 11, 2021 20:59
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Junpei posted:Yo, Zero Punctuation reviewed this game. I watched it out of curiosity and I don’t think his take is particularly interesting. And for a game that is about story and characters, his review barely says anything about either. I also take issue with him harping on how the protags of these series generally just ‘believe in their client’ when one of Ryunosuke’s key character bits in Adventures is that he’s struggling with that. I think you could apply that criticism to other games in the series, but not so much here
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Aug 11, 2021 22:02
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Well, just finished 1-3 now. The one major bone I have to pick is how few breakdowns there have been so far. Only one so far has ended with something in line with what we’ve come to expect from the series. Do they start getting fantastically over the top again?
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Aug 12, 2021 01:32
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Regalingualius posted:Well, just finished 1-3 now. having just completed GAA2 last night, i can safely say: yup.
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Aug 12, 2021 01:36
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Amppelix posted:i know this is the boring answer, but the answer to this and all other "why didn't the case end here" questions is simply that ace attorney is a detective mystery series and the case doesn't end until you solve the mystery. But 1-3.... 
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Aug 12, 2021 07:55
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Spoilers for GAA case 3 - It does actually kindof make sense story-wise for the court to be less favourable to the prosecution than it was in other games. Van Zieks failed to prosecute over a dozen guilty defendants and The Reaper only really makes sense in a context where the courts aren't managing to convict criminals. Ryunosuke: alright first up: none of this jury poo poo, "bluh bluh look at me im a juror the defendant is guilty because i heard half a testimony duhhh" e: also i finished 2-5 and I was [2-5 spoilers obviously]technically 3/4 right about the professor being stronghart Yinlock fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 13:02
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Waffleman_ posted:Yeah, but by that point we had proven she hadn't died by a stab and we were still on trial for her murder, not another attempted murder. Well someone's gotta go to jail e: Amppelix posted:i saw someone saying this on twitter and they're so right i have to share it here: GAA totally reverses the usual prosecution/defence dynamic of the series if you think about it for a bit and it's really funny. like, ryunosuke is constantly getting away with the flimsiest arguments in the world, or presenting completely unsubstantiated evidence made by sholmes' latest invention, or just using some other completely bullshit tactics to convince the jury to continue the trial by any means and all van zieks is doing in response is going "look i'm pretty sure the evidence still says this guy did it" tbf sholmes' bullshit inventions are explicitly Not Allowed as real evidence for the most part you're correct though Yinlock fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 13:12
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Lol at the reveal of the nickname at the start of 1-4 No we don't call him that because he wins all his cases. That's dumb. You're dumb. How would that even work no one can always win. We call him that because he uses black magic.
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Aug 12, 2021 15:17
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Just finished up case 1-3 myself. I'm glad this is two games because I feel very so like I'm still in the opening act here. Not really sure where that Stronghart guy is going with this seeing as he assigned a foreign dude with a little over a month of legal study to his name as barrister to Wilson Fisk but either the over arching plot will deal with it or I can assume that was an attempt to secure a guilty verdict. Not that I'm even sure Mcguilded did it seeing as they never wandered into a motive for the super loan shark with spotless public image to personally bump off the guy he's supposed to be squeezing in a abundantly public space. That aside, can I say I'm a bit shocked at how... focused the judges here have been? No odd tangents or flights of fancy, somewhat resistant to casual manipulation... Though I guess Santa Judge has the jury to pour on the goofy for him.
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Aug 12, 2021 17:12
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Caidin posted:That aside, can I say I'm a bit shocked at how... focused the judges here have been? No odd tangents or flights of fancy, somewhat resistant to casual manipulation... That's pretty much what the jury is for, leaving the judge to mostly just serve his function as enforcer of ordaaarrrr in this one. Meanwhile the jury are like magpies jumping on every shiny piece of half-evidence presented.
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Aug 12, 2021 17:16
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:G2-1, very early on That's just an amusing quirk of the text history regarding unattributed 'inner thought'/exposition dialogue; you can see there's an extra blank spacer line where the lack-of-name is. I noticed that too and got really confused until I puzzled it out later 
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Aug 12, 2021 18:12
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Kite Pride Worldwide posted:That's just an amusing quirk of the text history regarding unattributed 'inner thought'/exposition dialogue; you can see there's an extra blank spacer line where the lack-of-name is. I noticed that too and got really confused until I puzzled it out later Yeah I think originally that would've been light blue and in parentheses to show that it is internal dialogue. I guess I don't really pay enough attention, but if I'm in the ship and just finished the Sholmes thing where we proved the friend was a cat and the cat's bell was in Pavlova's cabin, what case is that? I would think it would be 2 dash something since I already did the first case but then I see people citing 1-3 and stuff and I don't recognize what they're talking about. Also to start with I really didn't like and was super annoyed by Sholmes. But I'm actually starting to enjoy what they did with that character, he's seems to become less of a dumb cliche as you go along.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:17
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Regy Rusty posted:The jury being able to jump in with a guilty verdict at any moment though just makes it so that this court system is even more stacked against the defense than any we've seen so far (especially since until Ryunosuke brought it back no one did the Summation Examination anyway lmao). So really it's just evening the playing field. It's basically if twitter were making judicial decisions. Terrifying
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Aug 12, 2021 18:22
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Play posted:Yeah I think originally that would've been light blue and in parentheses to show that it is internal dialogue. That's case 1-2. My impression of Holmes went very fast from "they're doing the trite dumb Holmes subversion  " to "that's just Holmes pretending to be dumb, nevermind".
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Aug 12, 2021 18:22
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Play posted:I guess I don't really pay enough attention, but if I'm in the ship and just finished the Sholmes thing where we proved the friend was a cat and the cat's bell was in Pavlova's cabin, what case is that? I would think it would be 2 dash something since I already did the first case but then I see people citing 1-3 and stuff and I don't recognize what they're talking about. People refer to cases by "(game)-(case)", so 1-3 would be game one, case three. You're still on 1-2.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:23
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Play posted:ship and just finished the Sholmes thing where we proved the friend was a cat and the cat's bell was in Pavlova's cabin, what case is that? Pavlova's bell oh my god  I swear I am missing like all the pun names in this game, except for the really really obvious ones. They've really upped the ante with their cleverness, like the [1-5] Skulkin Bros. names.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:28
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NRVNQSR posted:People refer to cases by "(game)-(case)", so 1-3 would be game one, case three. You're still on 1-2. Ah, got it I was thinking the second number was the phase of the case rather than the case itself thank you I really love this game but it takes a long time to play and I can only take so much at a time before I get tired of clicking pressing A a million times in a row. Still everything about them is solid enough that I do think I will finish the game eventually Kite Pride Worldwide posted:Pavlova's bell oh my god lol yeah I actually only noticed that one when Sholmes accused her of having a trained snake lmao Play fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 18:29
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Omobono posted:That's case 1-2. 2-5 I had my suspicions, but the final deduction with Mikotoba was what finally convinced me that Sholmes has just been trolling Ryunosuke for the past year.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:30
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Kite Pride Worldwide posted:That's just an amusing quirk of the text history regarding unattributed 'inner thought'/exposition dialogue; you can see there's an extra blank spacer line where the lack-of-name is. I noticed that too and got really confused until I puzzled it out later ... but the next line is him replying to it. If it's inner dialogue, whose is it? And how did he hear it?
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Aug 12, 2021 18:30
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:... but the next line is him replying to it. If it's inner dialogue, whose is it? And how did he hear it? Well then that seems to be The Case of the Missing Susato Attribution
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Aug 12, 2021 18:54
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