|
Gaius Marius posted:His role as bill the butcher is the best acting I've ever seen. He can still go gently caress himself.
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2021 05:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I dunno, I guess it's just how I look at the stories. What is Xenogears at its core? A traditional Hero's Journey and a love story. Is is ultimately about Fei coming to terms with his past and his personalities and getting the girl. Eva is in no medium except maybe the manga anything resembling love story. Shinji's arc is nothing like Fei's. The narrative of Evangelion is "subversive." That's what all the Eva fans always tell me, it was criticizing and deconstructing the mecha genre. Xenogears was just a very elaborate, very well-written but entirely "straight" narrative. As you noted, it's a love letter to mecha. One of the absolute most common things to happen to any form of media that is even remotely subversive is for people to entirely miss the point or willingly ignore it because they didn't want to acknowledge what it said. Perhaps best distilled by  See also: People who unironically think the crazy assholes in any given SMT game have a point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2021 06:03
|
|
|
Dagda was right. He was just a massive, edgy-rear end prick about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2021 06:16
|
|
|
I don't think even Dagda believed the stuff he said throughout the game. He just manipulated people with the end goal of being relieved of his position. He was like one of those rich free market types who gets college students interested in his system by telling them that you can buy drugs in any supermarket but what he really wants is to make 80-hour work weeks legal.
Spermando fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Aug 9, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2021 07:58
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:See also: People who unironically think the crazy assholes in any given SMT game have a point. seems fairly realistic to me that those who ultimately end up making big world effecting choices are in fact, hosed up
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2021 12:03
|
|
|
It sucks rear end when your team is physical based and the game throws a boss that reflects physical at you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
Don't make a monodamage team
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 20:58
|
|
|
Detective No. 27 posted:It sucks rear end when your team is physical based and the game throws a boss that reflects physical at you. its there to punish you for building all phys
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
Yeah well I beat Skadi anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 21:40
|
|
|
It's really funny how Nocturne goes most of the game without punishing you for going 100% phys and then does like 5 bosses in a row that null it or worse
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
Just do the logical end stage: Have a team that does what works best for you but have one character be your odd demon out. Or, y'know, play however you want. It's a game, it's about having some dadgum fun first and foremost.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 00:46
|
|
|
New trailer dropping in a few hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnWk05h0VrU
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 11:57
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:It's really funny how Nocturne goes most of the game without punishing you for going 100% phys and then does like 5 bosses in a row that null it or worse Heh jokes on them, Freikugel is almighty damage 
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
Healbot posted:Heh jokes on them, Freikugel is almighty damage I loved finally learning Freikugel when I leveled up after killing the final boss lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:One of the absolute most common things to happen to any form of media that is even remotely subversive is for people to entirely miss the point or willingly ignore it because they didn't want to acknowledge what it said. Perhaps best distilled by eva fans in particular tend to be full of poo poo in light of not knowing or ignoring a lot of its obvious and direct influences like tomino anime and classic japanese sci-fi TV. it's still a very distinct show in its direction and expression of its ideas and themes, but insofar as being a mecha show its largely just doing its own spin on ideas that had been getting mixed in for decades
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:51
|
|
|
Eva's biggest influence is Gerry Anderson shows, especially Captain Scarlet and UFO.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:28
|
|
|
The most egregious things eva people do is say the symbolism has no purpose bc i guess they dont realize gnosticism exists
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:35
|
|
|
The religious symbolism is basically meaningless. The show is about depression and isolation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:37
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:The religious symbolism is basically meaningless. The show is about depression and isolation. This is what I was told and it's one reason why I both don't like Eva and consider it nothing like Xenogears. Xenogears is a very plot-heavy story. The attention to detail in the world, the meticulously built up backstory that comes together in the climax of the game and makes total sense of so many disparate facts, that is a huge part of why I love it. That and the fact XG is ultimately a very complicated and cosmic love story. Evangelion's plot is needlessly obscurantist. That's half the discussion of Eva there, trying to make sense of poo poo that is just told so poorly that it makes simple stuff seem complicated. And so I was told to just ignore it and focus on the characters. Misato was an okay character, I guess. And I like Rei. But yeah, I just see no real similarities between the two in either what they did or what they were aiming for.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:48
|
|
|
Those people told you wrong
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:51
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:This is what I was told and it's one reason why I both don't like Eva and consider it nothing like Xenogears. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 23:31
|
|
|
Eva does a bunch of lame obfuscation that makes it way harder to engage with because you have to spend so much time deciphering terms before you can start to engage with some of the metaphors, which sucks. And I'm not even talking about the Gnostic symbology, I mean the show's own inventions. Like, I was talking to one of my friends about this, and does the anime itself ever actually explain what an A.T. field is? If you didn't go looking online for more info I don't think most people would even realize that A.T. fields are a huge deal and massively important to understanding what's going on. Or, trying to decipher basic info like "what the gently caress is third impact" "why would someone want to do a third impact" "what the gently caress is human instrumentality" That being said, the story itself isn't exactly meaningless, but it's more of just a framework for the character development. Reading a plot synopsis of Xenogears would still give you the sense of "oh this seems cool because cool things are happening." In Eva, almost nothing happens and reading a synopsis would do nothing for you. They're going for completely different types of storytelling and if you stripped the Evangelical robots from them they'd be nothing alike. The thing that makes people say the symbolism in Eva is meaningless is that the metaphors the story is trying to tell don't hinge upon the Gnostic imagery, and you could easily tell the same story using a completely different set of iconography. For example, the Spear of Longinus' importance isn't rooted in it's Biblical history, and you wouldn't lose any meaning by changing it to like, Excalibur or something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 23:35
|
|
|
Isn't most of the Abrahamic trappings in Evangelion entirely bullshit in-universe as well? Like, that's not actually the spear that wounded Jesus, it's just a powerful tool given a dumb name?
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 23:39
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Isn't most of the Abrahamic trappings in Evangelion entirely bullshit in-universe as well? Like, that's not actually the spear that wounded Jesus, it's just a powerful tool given a dumb name? Yes and no - the spear is used to pierce Shinji's Eva while its on the cross which initiated Instrumentality, so that's kind of a similar sort of imagery? But at the same time, the Eva is, before this moment, never really set up as any sort of Jesus analogue and any comparison between the act of Instrumentality itself and Christianity as a whole would be a pretty big stretch, especially considering Instrumentality is so clearly tied into the whole "make connections with other people" metaphor that comparing it to Biblical history would be wholly secondary. The actual history of the spear itself is that it belonged to Adam, so a total divergence from it's Biblical connotation as well. Additionally, the spear itself isn't any sort of metaphor, really, nor is getting pierced by it. Like...you could easily remove the Spear from the show entirely and nothing would change, which they basically did by having Rei throw it into the moon and then have it just be gone for the rest of the show. Only in the movie did they bring it back, and not for any sort of story reason. The show never says "well, you need the spear for this reason," it piercing the Eva during Instrumentality is, again, just done for flair
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 23:53
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:Those people told you wrong I mean I give almost zero fucks about Eva, but nothing I've seen suggests that the iconography is anything more than window dressing. Razzle got into it with their post, you can easily switch out the symbolism with another and the work would not change. Ngl a lot of times I see people calling things gnostic and I just really don't see it. First you have the problem of figuring out what someone means by using the term. No easy task given that most of what we know of the practice is recorded by people very hostile to it. For example Augustine on manichaeism.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
And then where is the demiurge in Eva? Or the actual creator deity. I just don't see it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:00
|
|
|
Posters the world over have been working on evangelion continuously for decades at this point to little avail. I think it's just an intractable topic wrt posting
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:01
|
|
|
I think a good conter-example to what Eva does with its imagery is something like Valkyrie Profile (the first one at least). If you were to strip all the names and nouns from it and replace them wholesale, you would still be able to tell it was about Norse mythology. You'd clearly be able to say, "okay, this character is a Valkyrie, the end of the world thing they're talking about is supposed to be Ragnarok, and the warrior spirits are einherjar." The characters and events and actions of Norse mythology are so embedded in the game's writing that you couldn't separate the two. Meanwhile, assuming you did the same to Eva, I don't many people would say to themselves, "Hmmm, a plan to assimilate all humanity into a single hivemind consciousness? That's like what Jesus did!" You would never reverse-engineer the show to have been about Christianity without that set dressing already there
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:08
|
|
|
I think the very fact that the set dressing leans on biblical details is important to conveying the tone
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
Oh don't get me wrong I think it has awesome presentation, but if you aren't already drinking the Eva koolaid and wanted to try and parse what the show is really about, the symbology is not a good starting point figuring out what an A.T. field is will give you way more info about what Eva is trying to say than any amount of the religious iconography
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:34
|
|
|
RazzleDazzleHour posted:Oh don't get me wrong I think it has awesome presentation, but if you aren't already drinking the Eva koolaid and wanted to try and parse what the show is really about, the symbology is not a good starting point You say 'figuring out', but doesn't End of Evangelion outright explain what an A.T. Field is, anyway?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
I like the penguin.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:39
|
|
|
CONGRATULATIONS
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
symbolism and allusion is cool
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 01:14
|
|
|
Spermando posted:New trailer dropping in a few hours. IGN posted it early: https://www.ign.com/videos/shin-megami-tensei-v-bethel-trailer
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 02:42
|
|
|
RazzleDazzleHour posted:I think a good conter-example to what Eva does with its imagery is something like Valkyrie Profile (the first one at least). If you were to strip all the names and nouns from it and replace them wholesale, you would still be able to tell it was about Norse mythology. You'd clearly be able to say, "okay, this character is a Valkyrie, the end of the world thing they're talking about is supposed to be Ragnarok, and the warrior spirits are einherjar." The characters and events and actions of Norse mythology are so embedded in the game's writing that you couldn't separate the two. I too played Lightning Returns.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 02:47
|
|
|
It's about Sonic the Hedgehog! That's what Anno was warning us about! 
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 03:22
|
|
|
Oh poo poo, Raidou.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 04:31
|
|
|
I can't wait for one of these high schoolers to tell me that the weak should just perish
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 04:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
Nocturne update: I just cleared the Diet Building and put the small pyramid on the computer machine inside the big upside down pyramid. Satan's grandma just told me it would be pretty cool if I became a true demon. Should I go for True Demon ending? I'm not looking for spoilers, just a general idea of what ending is bleaker or more metal. I think I'm gonna run through the Tower of Amala now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2021 04:57
|
|