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You guys are overthinking it. The Suicide Squad does treat imperialism as bad. The whole series is about unpleasant characters working for worse shadowy government tyrants; Amanda Waller is the true supervillain. But as I said earlier, they also normalize it as an inescapable reality. It takes for granted that there can be nothing better. The closest thing to anyone with a slightly noble ideal is Flagg, and he gets killed. Peacemaker is unambiguously evil, his whole character is a response to The Comedian from Watchmen. Waller, or people like her, will always be in control. Deathstroke doesn't reveal the crimes of the U.S. government because besides the fact he cares about his daughter more, he's a mercenary and brutal thug who probably doesn't even care about poo poo like that. Like a gangster movie takes organized crime as a given, a black ops special forces movie is going to take imperialism and war crimes as a given. It's all very cynical and edge lord.
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Aug 11, 2021 22:50
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i just want to say ive always found it weird as hell that rorscach is the go to evil dude in watchmen when basically all of his morally questionable behavior is a direct consequence of mental illness and relative to the other characters his only really distinctively morally questionable act is writing fan letters to alex jones contrast that with ozymandias whos got a whole fandom convinced he was basically correct and the comedian just committing war crimes every other page he shows up on you cant even blame that entirely on the fandom given that laurie valorizes him at the end of the comic for no reason
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Aug 11, 2021 23:44
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alan moore made a joke about how comics nerds smell a decade ago and it's somehow now the only recognised critical angle on watchmen, yeah
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Aug 11, 2021 23:53
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I think wrt the Comedian he doesn't really have a lot of people who think he's straight up a cool dude so it's just baseline "this guy sucks." Agreed on Ozymandias though
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Aug 12, 2021 00:04
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*Is* Rorschach the go to evil dude? Most of the emphasis on him not actually being a good guy is really just a response to the tendency of many readers to misinterpret him as the “correct” “hero” of the narrative, and overlook the fact that he’s fundamentally a murderous right-wing reactionary crank. It’s not a matter of singling out Rorschach as the worst villain of the lot (he isn’t), it’s just pushback on the tendency to view him through far too positive a lens (which perhaps sometimes goes too far in the other direction, especially for people extrapolating a bit too much to/from real world right wing reactionaries, or inclined to do things like valorize Ozymandias).
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Aug 12, 2021 00:07
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Maximo Roboto posted:You guys are overthinking it. The Suicide Squad does treat imperialism as bad. The whole series is about unpleasant characters working for worse shadowy government tyrants; Amanda Waller is the true supervillain. Yeah pretty much. If anything suicide squad encourages workers to rise up and murder their bosses and seize power, not merely knock them out
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Aug 12, 2021 00:12
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curious about The White Lotus, seems like going in blind is a good idea? I only know the basic premise. My only concern would be watching insufferable people without any critique but sounds like that won't be an issue.
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Aug 12, 2021 00:14
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yeah just watch, it's very entertaining and it is definitely quite critical of (though also has some empathy for most of) the resort guest characters
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Aug 12, 2021 00:32
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i would say yeah the framing device is good because it tells you whats going to happen in a very vague way and youre left wondering how and thats all you really need to know by contrast im reading the nickel boys right now and am just very annoyed with the framing device because it straight up tells us that the story is going to take place at a reform school where a bunch of kids were murdered despite the reform school not showing up until the fourth chapter and the sinister nature of the reform school not being confirmed for another few chapters after that but most egregiously the fact that the main character appears in the framing device also confirms that he wont die over the course of the story killing a whole lot of dramatic tension for no good reason i can think of
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Aug 12, 2021 00:36
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barney will pay for his support of american interventionism abroad. dont even loving get me started about arthur and cailou
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Aug 12, 2021 01:06
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Some Guy TT posted:i just want to say ive always found it weird as hell that rorscach is the go to evil dude in watchmen when basically all of his morally questionable behavior is a direct consequence of mental illness and relative to the other characters his only really distinctively morally questionable act is writing fan letters to alex jones ive never heard this reading before. are you reacting to dumb people on twitter reacting to dumber people on twitter who think rorscach is epic
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Aug 12, 2021 01:07
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as i understand it rorscach is basically the villain of the hbo watchmen show despite being dead so i think its fair to describe that sentiment as existing beyond just twitter
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Aug 12, 2021 01:25
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Ozymandias is also the villain of hbo watchmen they arrest him at the end. Its a very loving stupid show
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Aug 12, 2021 01:35
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And rorschach isn't the villain the point is that he's become a right wing cultural icon with meaning separate from anything he actually did. It's the one clever part
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Aug 12, 2021 01:36
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Farm Frenzy posted:And rorschach isn't the villain the point is that he's become a right wing cultural icon with meaning separate from anything he actually did. It's the one clever part Ya know when i first read watchmen it seemed likely that everyone would ignore rorsharchs diary as the ramblings of a madman and then alex jones happened and well chalk up another way high school me was a dipshit
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Aug 12, 2021 01:47
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i say swears online posted:backpack kid sued fortnite for stealing the floss Donald Faison also tried this (with a whole routine not a single step) and it didn’t work either. you gotta spend money to copyright it or it doesn’t count, it’s not a “mail yourself a sealed copy of the manuscript” situation
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Aug 12, 2021 01:49
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Some Guy TT posted:as i understand it rorscach is basically the villain of the hbo watchmen show despite being dead so i think its fair to describe that sentiment as existing beyond just twitter hey wait a second i just realised that i said 'are you sure this isnt just twitter' and your response was to half remember some tweets you read about a show you havent watched. eat my rear end in a top hat
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Aug 12, 2021 01:49
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Man I was originally excited at the prospect of a miniseries adaptation of Watchmen, hell yeah, let's give some of these scenes and poo poo time to breathe versus cramming it all into a movie Then they announced what it was and my interest just took a 180, what the gently caress HBO, no one cares about your fuckin fan fiction lmao
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Aug 12, 2021 01:49
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Farm Frenzy posted:hey wait a second i just realised that i said 'are you sure this isnt just twitter' and your response was to half remember some tweets you read about a show you havent watched. eat my rear end in a top hat if you didnt want me to answer your question you should have just explained why i was wrong in the first place instead of asking me a question jerk
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Aug 12, 2021 02:16
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time for them to make a watchwomen adaptation
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Aug 12, 2021 02:16
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Judakel posted:time for them to make a watchwomen adaptation 
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Aug 12, 2021 02:44
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LGD posted:*Is* Rorschach the go to evil dude? The greek meaning for the word hero was just a person with superhuman abilities, not a morally good character. At the end Rorschach is a detective who wanted truth at all cost. He did not want to live in a world where people's actions were guided by a fiction that aliens were going to kill humans. He was willing to sacrifice the theory: that people when confronted by a great enemy would band together and make the world a better place. Truth trumps a possible Utopia. Turns out it was a good action to sacrifice that theory. Covid 19 was a great threat to the peopled of the united states, nobody banded together. "We need to kill all the disable/minority people, because they will not be useful in the alien attack" - if Ozymandias got away with it. All of Rorschach hosed up actions are because of an abusive upbringing, or a reaction to a situation, like having to kill people in the prison in screwed up manner as psychological attacks. Edit: He has no superpowers, but a creative mind that was able to fight off many people. (This is a goal many libertarians, and US "bootstrap" Americans have. Scot-Irish Appalachian) mazzi Chart Czar has issued a correction as of 03:49 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 03:45
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:Edit: He has no superpowers, but a creative mind that was able to fight off many people. (This is a goal many libertarians, and US "bootstrap" Americans have. Scot-Irish Appalachian) so what youre saying is that archetypically rorschach is basically ron swanson
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Aug 12, 2021 03:53
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Some Guy TT posted:so what youre saying is that archetypically rorschach is basically ron swanson Yes. And Dwight Howard And Huckleberry Finn And all the Beverly Hillbillies And Lucy And John McClain of Die Hard Probably most Highland Romance novels and many other fictional characters in the "American" Cannon I no longer think there is an American Cannon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0YAR_vsQZ8 mazzi Chart Czar has issued a correction as of 04:00 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 03:56
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what about huckleberry hound
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Aug 12, 2021 03:59
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Some Guy TT posted:what about huckleberry hound Tex Avery lived in Texas, toward the east, so on the out skirts of the southern part, but defiantly the center Texas called "the far west" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huckleberry_Hound it says that he he has a north Carolina Accents and the voice comes form Albemarle, North Carolina it's a voice from where Appalachia meets this tidewater. Tide water is really hard to talk about, because it mixes a lot with the new york culture Also it's a place that is shrinking and I think a loss of wealth. I just don't know that area too well but I think the movie "Igby Goes Down" is a product of that culture Edit trying to find the accent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqfV28At5Pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szvDXwab_gc mazzi Chart Czar has issued a correction as of 04:17 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 04:10
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HBO's Watchmen was fine, some of it dragged, but it explored that world in interesting ways and the acting was up for it. Tim Blake Nelson, Jean Smart, Don Johnson, Louis Gossett Jr. were extremely well cast and Trent Reznor's soundtrack was amazing. I agree having the right wing reactionaries co-opt Rorschach's iconography as a commentary on fans missing the point of the comic was effective.
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Aug 12, 2021 04:57
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it was good for the first two thirds and then it completely abandons all of its themes and ideas to turn into force awakens nerd pandering poo poo for the last three episodes because damon lindelof is the worst writer of any medium of all time.
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Aug 12, 2021 05:35
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I feel the exact same way about Leftovers and boy howdy is that a controversial opinion in TVIV
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Aug 12, 2021 07:18
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didn't get too far into HBO Watchmen but the look and
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Aug 12, 2021 07:25
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cowboy
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ArmZ posted:who? Pai Mei, the leader of the White Lotus Clan. You know, Executioners of Shaolin? Of course you do.
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Aug 12, 2021 07:41
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There were a lot more jokes in the Watchmen HBO series than the original, but the biggest one of all was at the end where Ozymandias is getting arrested and is like "The President was in on the cover-up, are you going to arrest them, too?" and Laurie is like "well, yeah" and this is presented like a serious thing that can happen because no one is above the law lmao
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Aug 12, 2021 07:57
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Knight posted:There were a lot more jokes in the Watchmen HBO series than the original, but the biggest one of all was at the end where Ozymandias is getting arrested and is like "The President was in on the cover-up, are you going to arrest them, too?" and Laurie is like "well, yeah" and this is presented like a serious thing that can happen because no one is above the law lmao lmao
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Aug 12, 2021 08:31
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The Hooded Justice episode was pretty good.
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Aug 12, 2021 08:31
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Damon Lindelof's whole bit is that he writes tv shows with a high concept premise that turns into backdrop for some form of a love story. It works for the Leftovers and kinda for Lost since the backbones for both shows are interpersonal relationships but not for Watchmen as the twist to make that concept fit comes too late in the season.
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Aug 12, 2021 08:40
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Aglet56 posted:we could advocate for dismantling social media and fixing the toxic attention economy that advantages white voices over poc in every arena. alternately, we could post angry messages about the symptoms of social media on social media and Have an Important Conversation Have you tried telling them that they're fragile and mediocre and don't deserve their success?
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Aug 12, 2021 12:30
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Saw Suicide Squad last night, and I thought it was pretty good. Gunn knows how to use a soundtrack. I also liked how uncomfortable and cringey all the CIA dialogue was.
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Aug 12, 2021 13:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w
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Aug 12, 2021 14:06
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Knight posted:There were a lot more jokes in the Watchmen HBO series than the original, but the biggest one of all was at the end where Ozymandias is getting arrested and is like "The President was in on the cover-up, are you going to arrest them, too?" and Laurie is like "well, yeah" and this is presented like a serious thing that can happen because no one is above the law lmao emperor president robert redford and his liberal friends obviously took advantage of the fear of nonexistent aliens to spend several decades fixing our broken political system even if it was against their own personal self interest to do so whats so funny about that
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Aug 12, 2021 14:22
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CPFortest posted:Damon Lindelof's whole bit is that he writes tv shows with a high concept premise that turns into backdrop for some form of a love story. The love story made no sense. Their love story is a time loop because the plot demanded it. That's it.
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Aug 12, 2021 14:33
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