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DariusLikewise posted:It's not just Kliffs playcalling, it's his gameplans and installs that suck as well. He's been bailed out by an offensive roster that's vastly improved each year he's been there. I do not think the people who like Kliff watch any Cardinal games.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:32
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The only thing I remember about Dion Lewis from his Titans stint.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:42
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Forrest on Fire posted:He's been bailed out by an offensive roster that's vastly improved each year he's been there. I do not think the people who like Kliff watch any Cardinal games. I don't think he'll work out either but this...one? year trend of vastly improving the offensive roster year to year while he was there doesn't strike me as a convincing argument. Improving the offensive roster significantly and adding 2021 JJ Watt to the defense and pretending everything will be fixed on that side of the ball does strike me as what he'd think of as a good idea though. But I don't know how much control he has over building the roster.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:45
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Grittybeard posted:I don't think he'll work out either but this...one? year trend of vastly improving the offensive roster year to year while he was there doesn't strike me as a convincing argument. At the very least I don’t think there’s any chance Kyler is there without Kliff. If they don’t hire Kliff they’re probably rolling with Rosen again in 2019 and hoping they’re bad enough to get a QB in 2020. So I think he gets either credit or blame depending on how you rate Kyler.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:48
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I guess they sent jerry jones to question the accusers in the deshaun watson case. Yeesh.
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Aug 13, 2021 21:37
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Grittybeard posted:I don't think he'll work out either but this...one? year trend of vastly improving the offensive roster year to year while he was there doesn't strike me as a convincing argument. They went from a terrible center to an elite one. That offsets any loss they had from their main departure, Drake. The line has been a significant issue in AZ for a while.
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Aug 13, 2021 21:51
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https://twitter.com/JennyVrentas/status/1426179129343463428
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Aug 13, 2021 22:16
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LMAO https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1426283497560453121
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Aug 13, 2021 22:35
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YOLOsubmarine posted:He was an *interesting* hire which I’ll take every day over the boring rear end safe choices NFL teams make year after year that come in without and vision or plan, spin their wheels, and leave three years later with the team in need of another rebuild. I don’t know if this is backed up by stats, but feels like galaxy-braining decisions leads to rebuilds more often than being too conservative – and that bad organizations are more prone to making bold moves (perhaps because they have less to lose). The Browns are a good case study: they used to be bold and it got them Johnny Football and Freddie Kitchens, now they’re the Analytics Team and seen as a legit contender for the AFC. Of course the current brain trust probably wouldn’t have drafted Baker, who has obviously been a big part of their success, but the jury’s still out on him. Would they currently be happier with Josh Allen, the ”safer” choice?
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Aug 13, 2021 22:41
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Huh, I figured Tunsil's mask had a pretty tight seal on it
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Aug 13, 2021 22:45
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Fire Safety Doug posted:I don’t know if this is backed up by stats, but feels like galaxy-braining decisions leads to rebuilds more often than being too conservative – and that bad organizations are more prone to making bold moves (perhaps because they have less to lose). Baker was extremely well liked among the analytics side of draft media. Predicting how this bunch would've gone is a fruitless endeavor.
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Aug 13, 2021 22:50
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Fire Safety Doug posted:Of course the current brain trust probably wouldn’t have drafted Baker, who has obviously been a big part of their success, but the jury’s still out on him. Would they currently be happier with Josh Allen, the ”safer” choice? I may be reading you wrong or something but I don't think Josh Allen would ever have been considered the safer choice over Baker. The more athletic choice I guess, but he was more of a lottery ticket than Mahomes was. Or (throws a dart) DeShone Kizer was before flaming out. Maybe he'd be about on the same level Trey Lance is as a risk?
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Aug 13, 2021 23:08
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Fire Safety Doug posted:I don’t know if this is backed up by stats, but feels like galaxy-braining decisions leads to rebuilds more often than being too conservative – and that bad organizations are more prone to making bold moves (perhaps because they have less to lose). The sample size for “bold” choices is exceedingly small because so few teams make them. Kitchens was a lazy hire. He was an interim with a decent record. That’s the sort of hire teams talk themselves into often. And, as noted, Allen was considered the biggest boom/bust pick of that draft outside of maybe Lamar.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:12
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I feel like QB scouting is so bad that most guesses at "less risky" are as wrong and dumb as anything else.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:12
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sean10mm posted:I feel like QB scouting is so bad that most guesses at "less risky" are as wrong and dumb as anything else. I think this is true for most NFL scouting up to and including coaching candidates.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:26
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Hard to pin QBs because you can look amazing in all regards in college like Rosen and then the game's just a bit too fast at the NFL level. You have to process so much information in so little time that it turns into F1 or batting in the MLB. It's a position not capped by physical talent. I also keep saying that we were absolutely spoiled by QB talent lately that there was bound to be a skill cliff sooner or later. People expect Brady or Rodgers when most QBs cap out at Flacco and Eli and Romo. Kyler isn't a bad QB. It's just that a lot of us grew up watching Brady/Peyton duels seeing that as the ideal level of QB, a near impossible level that literally only a handful of people have sniffed in the history of football.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:27
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Doltos posted:Flacco and Eli and Romo I'm watching you.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:30
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A league full of Romos would be entertaining at least. It's everything below that level that makes games ugly.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:31
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Doltos posted:Hard to pin QBs because you can look amazing in all regards in college like Rosen and then the game's just a bit too fast at the NFL level. You have to process so much information in so little time that it turns into F1 or batting in the MLB. It's a position not capped by physical talent. You tried to slide that one in there but I'm not gonna let you, Romo was absolutely not down on the same level as guys like Flacco and Eli. Come on now, I know you hate the Cowboys but that's just being silly At least Rosen had the mold of someone who could have been a good NFL QB. Guys like Tebow have, I don't want to say dominated but definitely out classed a bunch of guys on the field in college and yet everyone knew he was not going to be able to do that in the NFL. Guys who are just faster or stronger than everyone in college can't get by on that in the NFL cause most of these guys are now just as fast as you (unless you are Lamar anyway). They are way more used to what you are doing than you are of their speed, size, physicality, and scheme. Pat White could take a hit in college but he got trucked into next century in the NFL
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Aug 13, 2021 23:39
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Grittybeard posted:I may be reading you wrong or something but I don't think Josh Allen would ever have been considered the safer choice over Baker. Probably shouldn’t have mentioned Baker at all – I know he was well regarded, but he wasn’t a consensus #1 either, with his size probably the main concern. I only brought up Allen as an example of the prototypical ”big QB”, even though he now looks like the safer bet overall.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:40
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Romo is a prime example of how bad QB play can get til we reach the point where a QB being good in the regular season is thrown up there with the all time greats. Or somehow thinking that Flacco and Eli aren't as good as him despite winning rings in the same era.
Doltos fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Aug 13, 2021 |
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Aug 13, 2021 23:43
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Oh another perfect example: Vince Young
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Aug 13, 2021 23:43
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Fire Safety Doug posted:Probably shouldn’t have mentioned Baker at all – I know he was well regarded, but he wasn’t a consensus #1 either, with his size probably the main concern. I only brought up Allen as an example of the prototypical ”big QB”, even though he now looks like the safer bet overall. I mean I didn't even believe in Josh Allen that's how risky that poo poo was. I actually liked Baker and wanted the Bills to draft him if they could because he seemed way less raw than Allen was. Allen was a Wyoming Cowboy throwing watermelons out on a farm in terms of his development.
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Aug 13, 2021 23:51
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Doltos posted:I think people thinking Romo was at some sort of great level as the pantheon is a prime example of how bad QB play can get to the point of what we see as acceptable or good. Or somehow thinking that Flacco and Eli aren't as good as him despite winning rings in the same era. Romo wasn't as good as Brady Brees and Manning, and I don't think I or anyone else here have said that. He was in that next level under them with like Rivers and Roethlisberger. Flacco and Eli winning a ring doesn't mean anything about how good they were either, that is a tired rear end argument. Eli and Flacco had hall of fame coaches, Romo had loving Jason Garrett. I wouldn't wish having the clapper for a coach on anyone
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Aug 14, 2021 00:00
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Nodoze posted:At least Rosen had the mold of someone who could have been a good NFL QB. Guys like Tebow have, I don't want to say dominated but definitely out classed a bunch of guys on the field in college and yet everyone knew he was not going to be able to do that in the NFL. Guys who are just faster or stronger than everyone in college can't get by on that in the NFL cause most of these guys are now just as fast as you (unless you are Lamar anyway). They are way more used to what you are doing than you are of their speed, size, physicality, and scheme. Pat White could take a hit in college but he got trucked into next century in the NFL that's one of the reasons Lamar's MVP season was so fun to watch. he weekly made legit NFL talent look like the people who are getting owned in high school highlight tapes. it's insane.
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Aug 14, 2021 00:01
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Nodoze posted:Romo wasn't as good as Brady Brees and Manning, and I don't think I or anyone else here have said that. He was in that next level under them with like Rivers and Roethlisberger. Rivers, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Eli, Romo, all of them were about the same tier with Big Ben probably being the closest to the level above that. Really Romo shouldn't even be there but, again, people are wowed by regular season stats to the point where they think winning a Super Bowl doesn't mean anything.
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Aug 14, 2021 00:10
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whoa whoa whoa Flacco's OCs were Cam Cameron, Jim Caldwell, Kubiak (for one glorious year), Marc Trestman. not exactly an esteemed list aside from the one season of Kubiak that also happened to be Flacco's best season statistically
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Aug 14, 2021 00:15
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Doltos posted:Rivers, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Eli, Romo, all of them were about the same tier with Big Ben probably being the closest to the level above that. Really Romo shouldn't even be there but, again, people are wowed by regular season stats to the point where they think winning a Super Bowl doesn't mean anything. Winning a Super Bowl doesn't mean nothing, but it is largely useless for rating an individuals career or talent. Trent Dilfer has a ring and Dan Marino doesn't How do you not remember all of TFF arguing about Peyton Manning vs Brady because he had 3 rings and Peyton had none.
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Aug 14, 2021 00:16
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Nodoze posted:Winning a Super Bowl doesn't mean nothing, but it is largely useless for rating an individuals career or talent. Trent Dilfer has a ring and Dan Marino doesn't Peyton was a choking bitch though?
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Aug 14, 2021 00:17
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Dilfer and Flacco/Eli's super bowl runs aren't comparable
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Aug 14, 2021 00:19
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AndrewP posted:Dilfer and Flacco/Eli's super bowl runs aren't comparable Dilfer and Peytons Denver one are 
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Aug 14, 2021 00:28
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Regular season stats matter so much to people that they invoke Trent Dilfers name to stave off the vampire of common sense
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Aug 14, 2021 00:33
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Saying romo is Flacco/Eli tier is very fair and you are ignoring romos huge flaws if you think he's better
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Aug 14, 2021 00:50
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Doltos posted:Regular season stats matter so much to people that they invoke Trent Dilfers name to stave off the vampire of common sense Doing good stats by throwing out the majority of my sample.
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Aug 14, 2021 00:51
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I like seeing Anthony Lynn still has a job. Seems like a really good dude
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Aug 14, 2021 00:56
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Ches Neckbeard posted:I like seeing Anthony Lynn still has a job. Seems like a really good dude Same. Just not as my team's head coach.
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Aug 14, 2021 00:59
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Doing good stats by throwing out the majority of my sample. Doing good stats by thinking that throwing 40 times against 4 different DBs on 13 different teams every year will hit any sort of significance on a prediction model or be comparable in a homogenous group of other QBs
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Aug 14, 2021 01:07
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Doltos posted:Doing good stats by thinking that throwing 40 times against 4 different DBs on 13 different teams every year will hit any sort of significance on a prediction model or be comparable in a homogenous group of other QBs Sounds like both regular and postseason stats are pointless and all we can do is count rings.
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Aug 14, 2021 01:14
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The best quarterback is the most entertaining quarterback. That’s why the best quarterbacks are Mahomes, Jackson, and Fitzpatrick.
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Aug 14, 2021 01:18
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Russell Wilson is the most underrated QB of all time because his personality is nuevo mormon
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Aug 14, 2021 01:24
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