(Thread IKs:
ZShakespeare)
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"complicated history" https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-vandals-target-a-ukrainian-wwii-memorial-with-a-complicated-history-1.6139297 The Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of Edmonton called the graffiti "disturbing" and reported it to police. "This vandalism is part of the decades-long Russian disinformation campaign against Ukraine and Ukrainians to create a false Nazi image of Ukrainian freedom fighters," it said in an emailed statement. "The translation of the Ukrainian message on our vandalized monument is 'For those who fought for Ukraine's Freedom.'" The Ukrainian Youth Unity Council said in a statement that recent accusations against its community have been "riddled with disinformation." "As for those who presume a right to dictate to us about whom we should honour, we invite them to reflect upon whom they are serving when publishing divisive 'fake news,'" the statement read. Jars Balan, the director of the Ukrainian Canadian Studies Centre at the University of Alberta, said the history of the monuments is complicated. The memorial in St. Michael's Cemetery was put up to honour the people who fought against both the Soviet army and the Nazis for the independence of Ukraine during the Second World War. "There's all this history behind this. And in history, context is everything. Horrible things happened in the Second World War," he said. "Difficult decisions, and decisions that may be regrettable in retrospect, were made. But it's hard to put yourself in the shoes of those people who had to make them then." He said it's easy to refer to them as Nazis, but as a historian, he needs to be objective.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:20
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:28 |
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Nazis GTFO
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Aug 13, 2021 19:23
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Really appreciate the CBC spending the biggest chunk of that article giving space to apologists for the loving waffen SS.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:24
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"Well, I think it's easy to say 'all Nazis should die' but the truth is that some of them were willing to excuse genocide for their own reasons, rather than being solely motivated by murderous intent toward Jews, Roma, disabled people, communists and homosexuals, and we need to respect that." -- A man who, in all honesty, should've kept his loving mouth shut. There's way too much "it's complicated" discourse about situations that are not remotely complicated. Israel loves to do it too whenever they commit war crimes. "Oh, we have a very complicated history, you just don't understand that actually we need to commit war crimes and it's cool and good." That poo poo does not and should not work for anyone.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:27
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PT6A posted:"Well, I think it's easy to say 'all Nazis should die' but the truth is that some of them were willing to excuse genocide for their own reasons, rather than being solely motivated by murderous intent toward Jews, Roma, disabled people, communists and homosexuals, and we need to respect that." -- A man who, in all honesty, should've kept his loving mouth shut. they asked a historian, they get a historians factual perspective. he's not wrong, they weren't nazi's and specifically rejected nazism, only agreeing to fight for hitler in opposition of bolsheviks. it was right in their charter. the cbc is at fault here for trying to present a "both sides" narrative when it's plainly obvious that, whether or not they were nazis, they were pro-fascist and enthusiastically participated in "anti-partisan" activity, or as we call it now, murder of civilians
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Aug 13, 2021 19:35
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Not everyone who participated in the holocaust were anti-semites, some were simply greedy small business owners hoping to expand through the redistribution of the victim's wealth and businesses. Think about the small business owners next time you blanket demonize the holocaust.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:48
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Hamelekim posted:That was always going to happen. It also isn’t a reason to occupy a country even if it’s terrible.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:52
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I'm sure they'd prefer to take more valuable hostages before they can be evacuated if they can.
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Aug 13, 2021 20:25
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:they asked a historian, they get a historians factual perspective. he's not wrong, they weren't nazi's and specifically rejected nazism, only agreeing to fight for hitler in opposition of bolsheviks. it was right in their charter. the cbc is at fault here for trying to present a "both sides" narrative when it's plainly obvious that, whether or not they were nazis, they were pro-fascist and enthusiastically participated in "anti-partisan" activity, or as we call it now, murder of civilians They also had members that had previously helped exterminate Jewish people. They killed women and children and were found guilty of numerous war crimes during the Nuremberg trials. Im not sure what it means that they “rejected” nazism. Because they didn’t fight westerners?
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Aug 13, 2021 20:30
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Starks posted:They also had members that had previously helped exterminate Jewish people. They killed women and children and were found guilty of numerous war crimes during the Nuremberg trials. Im not sure what it means that they “rejected” nazism. Because they didn’t fight westerners?
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Aug 13, 2021 20:48
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Starks posted:Im not sure what it means that they “rejected” nazism. Because they didn’t fight westerners? Knowing the way white folk love to move goalposts, it's probably something like "we planted different kinds of potatoes in our fields and as such it's irresponsible to say we were fascists."
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Aug 13, 2021 20:58
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https://mobile.twitter.com/l_stone/status/1426254794600157189 Erin O'Toole sees a rake laid out in front of him and willingly walks into it.
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Aug 13, 2021 21:11
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Starks posted:They also had members that had previously helped exterminate Jewish people. They killed women and children and were found guilty of numerous war crimes during the Nuremberg trials. Im not sure what it means that they “rejected” nazism. Because they didn’t fight westerners? not getting deep into it because im sure it'll be misconstrued as being an apologist, but in the context of ww2 history, they were not nazis and their members explicitly specified that they fight for ukraine and not hitler. my reply was specific to asking an academic on ww2 history, who would also state that the italians, hungarians, finns, japanese, etc were also not nazis. my point is that the CBC is being disingenuous by stating that, because it is technically true, except that makes it seem like they didnt commit similar atrocities (they did, as noted). they did get off light at nuremburg tho iirc
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Aug 13, 2021 21:12
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Yeah CBC is dropping the ball hard here going with "not Nazis" instead of the more accurate "enthusiastic Nazi collaborators".
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Aug 13, 2021 21:19
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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It's really rich listening to the ministers claim that any "progress" was made in Afghanistan after 20 years of slaughter.
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Aug 13, 2021 21:40
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/l_stone/status/1426254794600157189 Don't worry, they have a solid follow up. https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056 Conservatives every day: "Trudeau must go!" Trudeau: "Here's an election." Conservatives: "No, not like that."
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Aug 13, 2021 21:57
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah CBC is dropping the ball hard here going with "not Nazis" instead of the more accurate "enthusiastic Nazi collaborators". A reminder of how poorly prepared Canadian media is going to be when the far-right gains a significant foothold in politics here.
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Aug 13, 2021 21:59
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Nazis gonna be screaming "kill the cbc and everyone that works there" while the cbc bothsides them and explains why their Nazi salutes are more of a cultural heritage type thing.
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Aug 13, 2021 22:01
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:not getting deep into it because im sure it'll be misconstrued as being an apologist, but in the context of ww2 history, they were not nazis and their members explicitly specified that they fight for ukraine and not hitler. my reply was specific to asking an academic on ww2 history, who would also state that the italians, hungarians, finns, japanese, etc were also not nazis. my point is that the CBC is being disingenuous by stating that, because it is technically true, except that makes it seem like they didnt commit similar atrocities (they did, as noted). they did get off light at nuremburg tho iirc I don't think those are good examples if you're talking about foreign armies, because the Galician division was literally part of the Nazi German army. Anyways I'll reluctantly concede your point because it looks like all the foreign divisions of the Waffen-SS are generally referred to as "collaborators", even in cases were they embraced nazism, wore swastikas, and swore allegiance to Germany. Hell of a technicality though.
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Aug 13, 2021 22:06
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HackensackBackpack posted:Don't worry, they have a solid follow up. Holy loving lmao this is killing me
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Aug 13, 2021 22:20
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Oh man. Imagine when the truth gets out that Justin Trudeau wants votes, in an election, for his party.
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Aug 13, 2021 22:23
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So Stephen Harper at least had the honour and dignity to call elections for different reasons.
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Aug 13, 2021 22:24
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half cocaine posted:So Stephen Harper at least had the honour and dignity to call elections for different reasons. He called elections to crush the opposition, to drive them from parliament, and hear the lamentations of their members. Not because he wanted a majority. Starks posted:I don't think those are good examples if you're talking about foreign armies, because the Galician division was literally part of the Nazi German army. Anyways I'll reluctantly concede your point because it looks like all the foreign divisions of the Waffen-SS are generally referred to as "collaborators", even in cases were they embraced nazism, wore swastikas, and swore allegiance to Germany. Hell of a technicality though. I feel like my "Not literally a Nazi by the academic definition" t-shirt has people asking lot of questions already answered by my shirt. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 13, 2021 22:25
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Didn't the Finnish also side with the Nazis because the Russians were trying to invade Finland? My knowledge of the history of that region during WW II is non existent.
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Aug 14, 2021 00:43
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yes, and they also supplied volunteers to the SS, as did most of the eastern european nations in the germany/russia conflict zone
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Aug 14, 2021 01:03
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HackensackBackpack posted:Don't worry, they have a solid follow up. But I thought #TrudeauFailedCanada because #TrudeauWorstPMEver therefore #TrudeauHasGotToGo
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Aug 14, 2021 01:13
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Madkal posted:Didn't the Finnish also side with the Nazis because the Russians were trying to invade Finland? My knowledge of the history of that region during WW II is non existent. The Finns and the Ukrainians both get that gray area "pass" for siding with the Nazis because of current chud governments in the west which are still vehemently anti communist and treat any socialist movement as if it's the next Soviet union come to destroy democracy. Finland especially is a tricky case because their involvement in WW2 amounted to a continuation of the Winter War in the 30s and Nazi Germany interceded on their behalf to maintain the front against the Russians. Finland had a lot of sympathy in the 30s from western democracies because of that aforementioned xenophobia against communism, so you see a lot of people try to wash off that whole "allied with the nazis" thing by saying "they were just defending their country and taking back land they lost in the Winter War!" which is true to an extent but is also the same justification the Nazis used to annex former 2nd Reich territory.
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Aug 14, 2021 01:19
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flashy_mcflash posted:Holy loving lmao this is killing me
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Aug 14, 2021 02:40
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I hope Doug Ford says something nice about Erin Otool and gets bitten by his own election advertising law he just pushed though
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Aug 14, 2021 02:48
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flashy_mcflash posted:Holy loving lmao this is killing me I am a bit surprised they didn't use some more current (ahem) "internet material", such as Among Us, Thanos Beatboxing, or some form of Trudeau / Morshu mix.
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Aug 14, 2021 04:42
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eXXon posted:Oh man. Imagine when the truth gets out that Justin Trudeau wants votes, in an election, for his party. that kind of deep political strategy is why he's been prime minister for so long
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Aug 14, 2021 05:46
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HackensackBackpack posted:Don't worry, they have a solid follow up. "I don't know what I'm doing, someone please send help." - Erin O'Toole, Leader(?) of the Conservative Party of Canada
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Aug 14, 2021 08:27
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HackensackBackpack posted:Conservatives every day: "Trudeau must go!"
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Aug 14, 2021 12:46
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https://mobile.twitter.com/SarahRyanYEG/status/1426323748345372677 This is a relief, hopefully more Alberta school boards follow suit.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:44
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Let's see how TorStar's doing under new ownership: Who’s best suited to help our economy recover, the Liberals or the Tories? Thanks to vague and similar promises, it’s hard to tell. Trudeau: 10, O'Toole 18, Singh 0, NDP 1: quote:The Trudeau government’s unprecedented investment in the economy since last year, which has continued during Trudeau’s own pre-election cross-country tour, disguises underlying weaknesses in a Canadian economy that someday will have to achieve world-class performance without deficit-financed support. Well anyway I'm voting for Kodos. Also lol at even half of the Canadian economy being able to survive without deficit-financed support.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:46
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The streak remains unbroken: anyone unironically writing "world-class" can be safely ignored.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:07
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eXXon posted:Let's see how TorStar's doing under new ownership: Oh... uh... TorStar, you seem to have a bit of O'Toole's jizz on your chin, do you want to maybe wipe... no? You're good? Okay, just wanting to let you know. Jesus Christ, that article was bad.
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Aug 14, 2021 18:07
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Thankfully this tweet cleared it all up. 
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Aug 14, 2021 18:13
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Well, no, not issues.
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Aug 14, 2021 18:34
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:28 |
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I met the delightful Kathleen Mpulubusi, NDP candidate for St Albert-Edmonton, this morning and got a yard sign and some flyers to hand out and am going to do my part so hopefully this smarmy dickhead at least gets less than 50% of the vote here this time around. Yay Alberta politics.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:30
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