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Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Alchenar posted:

It's like the inverse of those early 90's video games that assumed nobody would ever use anything more powerful than a 386 so why not lock the game speed to the cpu frequency.

They have been releasing patches for Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich. It runs under Win10, but stutters oddly in some spots and runs smoothly in other. Surprising how good it is for a re-release of a 1999 Gary Grigsby title. Also don't buy it, it's $50.

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Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Do you think it'll still be $50 when the release the patch for win27 in 2049?

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014


Didn't someone who knows graphics magic look at what the Combat Mission games are doing and deduce that it's using like the most inefficient DirectX 7 operations that take thousands of times more processor operations than current DX stuff?

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Pillbug

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

It only being single threaded is obviously one issue but I seriously don't understand how they managed to write an engine that's had basically zero gains from 17 years of single thread CPU and GPU performance.

Oddly enough, it was showing 11 threads across 8 cores.

It looks like it was written in C++ Builder as well, and what looks to be the built-in OpenGL support.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Aug 15, 2021

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


algebra testes posted:

How is WITE 2? Are people still liking it?

I am over half way through a campaign and still enjoying it on and off. One issue that it has compared to other theatres is a lack of diversity imo - there's some variety in terrain and weather, but not that much. It still basic works as a wargame though if you ignore the air part.



I wish Command Ops 2 had a better UI so much. The concept is so good and it almost gets there despite the intense grog game qualities.

orphean
Apr 27, 2007

beep boop bitches
my monads are fully functional

Yooper posted:

Anyone tried Valor and Victory yet? Has a LnL / ASL look to it.

Plays very much like ASL lite. Maybe even just Squad Leader lite even. The interface is decent, gameplay feels zippy (well as zippy as a multistage two phase game turn is going to be), and is in general a nice little product. I feel like there aren’t nearly enough included scenarios but there is an editor for what that is worth. I think it’s absolutely worth its low asking price at the very least.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
just imagine what could be accomplished with Combat Mission on the Unreal Engine

or even just goddamn Unity

Travic
May 27, 2007

Getting nowhere fast
So because I'm stubborn and really like Aurora I pushed through and started a new game.

I had a question about fleets though. I saw that shipyards can build ships directly into existing fleets. But I know fleets have to be in the same place to be merged. So how does this function work?

Does it really add ships to the fleets when they get built?

Does the fleet have to be in orbit to accept the new ships or will they just pick them up next time they're at Earth?

Ceebees
Nov 2, 2011

I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.
It's not that shipyards 'can' build ships to an existing fleet, they must do so. That fleet has to be in orbit, and if you give a move order to a fleet with build commands pointed at it, it will throw a warning and interrupt your turn every 5-second tick.

I usually end up with a fleet named "!construction" on every shipyard world, for sorting purposes. Just shuffle them out of that when they're done.

Travic
May 27, 2007

Getting nowhere fast

Ceebees posted:

It's not that shipyards 'can' build ships to an existing fleet, they must do so. That fleet has to be in orbit, and if you give a move order to a fleet with build commands pointed at it, it will throw a warning and interrupt your turn every 5-second tick.

I usually end up with a fleet named "!construction" on every shipyard world, for sorting purposes. Just shuffle them out of that when they're done.

Ah ok. I was trying to add freighters to a fleet that was moving infrastructure. I'll have to tell them to go sit down for a while.

Thanks.

Ceebees
Nov 2, 2011

I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.
Much better to let the freighters keep working, make a new empty fleet at the shipyard to hold the construction orders, and just transfer ships between them when the freighters come back.

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Pillbug

orphean posted:

Plays very much like ASL lite. Maybe even just Squad Leader lite even. The interface is decent, gameplay feels zippy (well as zippy as a multistage two phase game turn is going to be), and is in general a nice little product. I feel like there aren’t nearly enough included scenarios but there is an editor for what that is worth. I think it’s absolutely worth its low asking price at the very least.

They seem to offer a couple fan made ones on the Matrix forums, but they really need Steam scenario/mod integration like Lock N Load, and most other games that realize this is an amazing way to expand your content.

A few here as well: http://www.yobowargames.com/valor-victory-scenarios/

Philthy fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Aug 15, 2021

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

Kangra posted:

the rest is an interview with Max Rea about Hell Let Loose ('hardcore' WWII FPS).

I just have to step in and recommend HLL entirely for the tank gameplay. It's probably the best multiplayer ww2 tank experience right now, because there is infantry which you absolutely dominate at range, but you generally can't see poo poo up close, and if any sneak next to you you are probably going to see the "you died" screen soon. To be really useful in a tank, you have to work together with your own infantry. No other FPS I've played does the combined arms thing anywhere near as well.

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

It only being single threaded is obviously one issue but I seriously don't understand how they managed to write an engine that's had basically zero gains from 17 years of single thread CPU and GPU performance.

Squiggle posted:

gently caress that quote, gently caress the idiot who said it, and gently caress Steve. It's been a loving ritual for me for three years now: whenever I get a new computer part, I reinstall a Combat Mission to see if it can run it consistently above 30 FPS yet, and then uninstall it after showing that, no, it still can't.

It quite possibly literally never will. The super short and simplified version is that draw calls (one instance of the programmer telling the GPU to do something) are not becoming less expensive over time. The way modern games get a lot more done is by using various techniques to pack more things to do in a single draw call. Games designed before this was a thing (or ones designed after this was a thing, but the designer didn't give a poo poo) will never run faster.

Xenolalia posted:

I will never get over that removing my graphics card increased my combat mission fps

... because draw calls to your integrated gpu that is on the same chip are actually a bit cheaper than the ones that have to traverse the PCIe bus, and the actual content of those draw calls is trivial even to the integrated gpu.

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer
I can’t tell if the combat mission devs are just always broke and can’t afford to really do much to the engine or if they’re those kinds of people that just don’t understand aesthetics. It’s not like we demand much. It could look exactly the same, just running at 200 FPS.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I don't suppose they're super rich or anything, but it's 90% the later all the same I'm sure.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
They've complained time and time again when people ask for any sort of improvements.

gently caress, it took them more than a decade to get on Steam because they didn't think there was any profit to be made. It turns out that selling 0+X copies of you game (Where X is the number of purchases made on Valve's platform) is exactly the same as selling 0 copies of your game. They literally didn't want to share ANY profit.


Then they would complain that they didn't make a lot of money because they were a niche company making a niche game and that's why they have to sell "Engine" upgrades at $5-$10 bucks per.

orphean
Apr 27, 2007

beep boop bitches
my monads are fully functional
At least the folks at Slitherine have slowly convinced them to give steam a try. The whole thing is so frustrating and stupid as a customer though.

Xenolalia
Feb 17, 2016



Regarde Aduck posted:

I can’t tell if the combat mission devs are just always broke and can’t afford to really do much to the engine or if they’re those kinds of people that just don’t understand aesthetics. It’s not like we demand much. It could look exactly the same, just running at 200 FPS.

Look the same but at 200 fps would be ideal for me. Something about the combat mission aesthetic is good imo. I think bc it reminds me of 2003 era mmos. The weird clean tanks, the houses that literally look like they're ripped from Pathologic 1. Infantry could be improved to not twist like Gumby but its not a huge deal.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
Combat Mission but same side Co-Op against AI ala: the let's plays would be great.

Abongination
Aug 18, 2010

Life, it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come.
Pillbug
Coop combat mission that didn't run like dog poo poo is the dream. The big scenarios are so loving big that I get overwhelmed and close it before the first turn.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Oh so like ASL where you could have a bunch of people in the thread give commands in realtime while someone plays them out and another acts as the AI/Opponent?

SlyFrog
May 16, 2007

What? One name? Who are you, Seal?
I just want to add my late opinion that while I would love to play Graviteam stuff (and own a couple), they are fairly inscrutable.

I played Combat Mission 20 years ago or so. Night and day difference in terms of ease of figuring things out.

The Graviteam strategic/operational map stuff in particular is just horribly documented and opaque.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I've had Lock 'n Load on Steam for a while now but only recently tried playing it with the discussion happening here.

playing the Assault on Vierville scenario, it was pretty easy to win as the Americans on the first try because it's a defensive scenario, even if I still had to figure out the controls

flipping it around, it took three tries to win as the Germans

it's familiar enough to someone who's played ASL, but it's just different enough to also throw me off at first. In particular, needing to "spot" a hex before I can fire on it is something I'm still struggling to understand: do I spend an entire impulse just trying to Spot a hex when it might fail? do I walk a squad into defensive fire just so the defenders will fire back and get spotted automatically?

that said, it is very playable, with the computer taking care of all the rules enforcement and you're just free to focus on strategy. Knocking out those three tries as the Germans took less than an hour.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I had it for ages, didn't play it, and ultimately uninstalled it because jesus who does daily patches.

One day I'll go back.

Travic
May 27, 2007

Getting nowhere fast
More Aurora questions.

What is the best way to automate fuel production? I have a fuel harvester working over Jupiter and it's producing fuel. I have a tanker who has orders to travel to Jupiter on a 1 year delay, refuel from harvester, then return to Earth. It has the condition order that "When full tanks are full unload fuel at colony."

Is there a better way to do it?

It seems like Automated Mines are the way to go unless the planet is close to livable. Or should I focus on normal mines and just have fewer mining outposts?

Ceebees
Nov 2, 2011

I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.
I just have mine dump 90% fuel on earth when they get back every time, regardless of level. A tanker should be able to lap the solar system on 2% fuel or whatever.

Automines are important for high-accessibility minerals that you're running low on, but you can buy about two normal mines for the cost of one automine. Worst case, try it and learn from what goes wrong (it is aurora, something will almost always go wrong)

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God

Travic posted:

More Aurora questions.

What is the best way to automate fuel production? I have a fuel harvester working over Jupiter and it's producing fuel. I have a tanker who has orders to travel to Jupiter on a 1 year delay, refuel from harvester, then return to Earth. It has the condition order that "When full tanks are full unload fuel at colony."

Is there a better way to do it?

It seems like Automated Mines are the way to go unless the planet is close to livable. Or should I focus on normal mines and just have fewer mining outposts?

I design the slowest, most efficient engine possible and toss it on an enormous tanker (though I try to aim for 500km/s+ just so it doesn't get outrun by the orbital speed of any planets), then set it on repeat to take fuel from the harvest to the colony. At very low power settings the engine practically won't use fuel at all, so I don't sweat trying to work out the timing over having it run constantly.

Automines are definitely the way I go. You can also use orbital miners for stuff like asteroids but I usually don't bother and just slap automines down on those too. If a planet is in what I'd consider the habitable range (colony cost <4) then I'll definitely use manned mines, since workers are practically free and I generally want to colonize it anyways, but I won't go out of my way to colonize something just to mine from it.

Travic
May 27, 2007

Getting nowhere fast
Ok thanks. I'll give it a try when I get home.

I keep getting overwhelmed by the complexity, but when I break things down into small goals it gets more manageable.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]
It pains me that the AGEOD Union AI in Civil War 2 is so terrible; how is it that they can make the AI for the Confederates passable, but not the Union.

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


Grog lite, but I'm enjoying Carrier Command 2 so far. A few tough edges, like some poor pathfinding or clunky controls but I suppose that is to be expected. I think I need to put a frame limiter on it though as I'm running near 200 in most cases.

Building the right loadouts for my units and setting up the attacks is pretty fun.

I want to set my headset back up and try it in vr for sure.

Alikchi
Aug 18, 2010

Thumbs up I agree

ZombieLenin posted:

It pains me that the AGEOD Union AI in Civil War 2 is so terrible; how is it that they can make the AI for the Confederates passable, but not the Union.

AGEOD benefits really well from human opposition imo. The ai is mediocre at best, builds weird unbalanced stacks. One of the most memorable games I ever played was a PBEM of the Caesae vs Pompey civil war scenario of AJE

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
Seeing the Taliban ride in bumper cars with their weapons is like some poo poo I'd do in Arma 3.

AARP LARPer
Feb 19, 2005

THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR

Buglord
i want zuckerberg or one of these other tech bozos to "discover" wargames and make it their pet project to fund an X-COM / ASL game. AAA with all the bells and whistles. No expense spared on funding a team of 5000 programmers all on continuous crunch mode for three years.

do it, somebody

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Pillbug
Guys, I'm enjoying the hell out of Combat Mission Black Sea. I'm finding myself playing missions over and over and I think my hair is falling out and grey hairs are springing out of my chin.

nessin
Feb 7, 2010

ZombieLenin posted:

It pains me that the AGEOD Union AI in Civil War 2 is so terrible; how is it that they can make the AI for the Confederates passable, but not the Union.

The Union side is a lot of complicated logistics, broad fronts, requires extensive planning ahead to not get screwed, and has to deal with significant built-in command problems. Confederates are in a corner, just from a geographic perspective, has easy to parse internal lines of logistics (that literally form the win condition in practical terms), and can actually be flexible in having weird units going every which way instead of a cohesive battle formation.

Not an AI designer so what do I know, but from what little I know I'd not touch trying to build a decent Union AI with a 10 foot pole in that game and can imagine a whole bunch of basic conditions that would make the Confederate AI at least work.

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:

B-1.1.7 Bomber posted:

i want zuckerberg or one of these other tech bozos to "discover" wargames and make it their pet project to fund an X-COM / ASL game. AAA with all the bells and whistles. No expense spared on funding a team of 5000 programmers all on continuous crunch mode for three years.

do it, somebody
they'd cut every corner and farm ai out to abused mechanical turk workers

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Someone pay me to be a witp AI please.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

Pharnakes posted:

Someone pay me to be a witp AI please.

In a chess-style exhibition like when a grandmaster walks around winning 20 games at once, you play 20 simultaneous PBEM games against goons

ZombyDog
Jul 11, 2001

Ere to fix yer gubbinz

Arrath posted:

Grog lite, but I'm enjoying Carrier Command 2 so far. A few tough edges, like some poor pathfinding or clunky controls but I suppose that is to be expected. I think I need to put a frame limiter on it though as I'm running near 200 in most cases.

Building the right loadouts for my units and setting up the attacks is pretty fun.

I want to set my headset back up and try it in vr for sure.

I'm in the Carrier Command 2 is good actually camp. I have some reservations, I find the flight controls to be rather unfun, the obfuscation of game systems to be frustrating and wish there was more people talking about it so I can plot out a way of dealing with three and 4 shield Islands. I've been playing exclusively single player and initially I found the pacing either frustratingly slow or out of hand and difficult to manage but now I enjoy the quieter moments to sort out logistics or plan out an approach to an island, and I've nailed down air assaults one 1 and 2 shield Islands using a mix of a couple of Albatrosses and the rest Razorbills all armed with IR missiles, only using manual control to mark targets, launch flares and cruise missiles. I find the throwback visuals to be quite appealing, along with the music and ambient audio, and have never had a flipped Razorbill on the deck, only because I've never tried to operate them in high seas or while on the move. In my current campaign I'm only finding that I really want the 160mm ammo blueprint so I can more confidently deal with surface AA at range. I haven't tried it in VR yet but my understanding is that the implementation isn't super awesome yet.

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Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011
Hot take time: Licensing War Thunder/Enlisted's engine and kludging in a free camera with a way to herd the AI controlled teammates in generally the right direction would put you 75% of the way to having a tactical wargame that's vastly superior to Combat Mission in terms of performance, graphical presentation and simulation depth.

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