|
i presented the right evidence on the first try but for the completely wrong reason wait, something doesnt add up. if she was trying to frame him with the screwdriver, why would she take it out of his chest?? that's gotta be it. *presents* "Your honor, if you'll take a look at the direction of this bloodstain..." I like being so incorrect that I wrap back around to being right!  e: because this is a new page, i should clarify I'm talking about 2-3
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 08:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 10:11 |
|
|
G2-3 I noticed the bloodstain earlier on, but dismissed it as just being like that because of the slope of his chest, so I had already put it out of my mind by the time it was relevant evidence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 09:07
|
|
|
2-3 I think that bloodstain holds the record for the subtlest detail you need to spot in AA history.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 12:31
|
|
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:G2-3 I noticed the bloodstain earlier on, but dismissed it as just being like that because of the slope of his chest, so I had already put it out of my mind by the time it was relevant evidence. same. my first thought therefore was "uhhhh maybe the birdcage door was blocked somehow, like it was the wrong way around or something???" and when that failed i tried the photo as a total shot in the dark Yinlock fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Aug 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 13:03
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:same. my first thought therefore was "uhhhh maybe the birdcage door was blocked somehow, like it was the wrong way around or something???" and when that failed i tried the photo as a total shot in the dark
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 13:26
|
|
|
G2-2 What the gently caress do you mean he wasn't dead!? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
G2-3 I game over'd twice and switched modes four times before I presented the photo in a fit of despair. I am very smart.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
DGS2-3 My idea at that contradiction was that if the stabbing happened in the birdcage below the stage, and not the birdcage on the crystal tower, that there should not be any blood on the arm belt thing. Close enough I guess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 14:12
|
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:G2-3 my thought was the lack of scorch marks at the bottom of the dead man birdcage for the fireball it was supposedly in, didn't expect the AA game intentionally saying forensic science isn't ready yet to care about blood splatter. the argument isn't even good, the knife shifting could have just caused that eh the contradiction makes sense but yeah the blood stain could've trailed down a bit more even if that's unrealistic, having it stop with the chest slope was kinda just confusing then again I dunno how you'd hide that detail without that, it's kind of a clusterfuck. cool contradiction though imo
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 14:31
|
|
|
(early GAA2-3 speculation) I know, this is a world with Herlock Sholmes inventions and mediums communicating with the dead, but I hope the teleportation thing is some kind of sham/magic trick because a working teleporter would take things too far into the absurd
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 14:44
|
|
|
Is Ryunosuke ever going to have a chance to point that his summation examination record is 8-0 (and counting) so the prosecution can take their snide comments and shove them up their chalice? E: like, the first time it kinda make sense, "ha ha look at this dumb foreigner that doesn't know that's an useless right". By the third time everyone in court should be popping the popcorn bags in anticipation of what this crazy foreigner will do next. Omobono fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Aug 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:07
|
|
|
G2-4 Right at the start of the trial, I feel like Kazuma is straight up using classic AA defense attorney tactics to throw evidence at what he considers contradictions in van Zieks's testimony, it's great.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:08
|
|
|
2-4 oh no, Mr. Judge Hell, I know better than to trust a friggin minister with international rights
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:26
|
|
|
Omobono posted:Is Ryunosuke ever going to have a chance to point that his summation examination record is 8-0 (and counting) so the prosecution can take their snide comments and shove them up their chalice?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
Omobono posted:Is Ryunosuke ever going to have a chance to point that his summation examination record is 8-0 (and counting) so the prosecution can take their snide comments and shove them up their chalice? At least the judge doesn't bother asking anymore near the end and just assumes he's going to do it
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:46
|
|
|
I keep hoping for someone to say something to the effect of "Look at what you've done, now every defense attorney in London is asking for summation examinations and it's making our trials take 5x as long"
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:51
|
|
|
Amppelix posted:the narrative in these games doesn't work if they give the impression that the defence has the upper hand, so no, this will never happen There's a major difference. Prosecutors never attack the very concept of cross examinations for example, and any snide remarks are more on how the current testimony is clearly ironclad (narrator voice: it wasn't). But not even Manfred* dared to dump on the concept, and he was the guy that basically wrote all his witnesses' statements and loving retrained a talking parrot just in case. *he did try to intimidate Nick in not doing a cross. Once. At the start of the trial. Hey, might have worked. By contrast Van Zieks faces a guy who is, demonstrably, the jury whisperer, while having basically no control over these 6 idiots, AND the rules forbid him from running interference during the mechanic. No, sorry, his type of snide comments are simply petulant after the first time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:57
|
|
|
on the other hand, being very petulantly snide towards his learned japanese friend is very much in character for van zieks
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 16:18
|
|
|
2-4 Herlock Sholmes what the gently caress are you doing
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
Pray, forgive the discourtesy of being sick of the defense's bullshit
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
The summation examination cuts into tea time, and in Barok’s case, brooding time
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 16:44
|
|
|
Finished the game last night: Totally called that Stronghart was the big bad and also that Klint was the professor. But very good how it all played out. Little disappointed there were no final jury shenanigans, though, since the last trial was closed...
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
That's my problem with Zieks. He's mad about 1-3, which is fair but he has no problem forcing 5 minute trials where the wrong person is convicted of murder. You don't get to be angry about Ryus failings as a lawyer when you're much worse yourself. The worst part is that he's clearly intelligent enough to figure out what happened but he doesn't seem to give a poo poo about truth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
that seems like a weird thing to say about the prosecutor who clearly cares the most about the actual truth of the case in this series you must have forgotten how bad it usually is and yes, he does call for early convictions every time but it's not his fault all of ryunosuke's cases are locked room mysteries with one incredibly obvious culprit every time lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 17:14
|
|
|
This series HAS to have prosecutors be wrong the majority of the time in order for it to work. That's just a basic requirement of the format. Sometimes they do better jobs of justifying it than others, but it's something you just have to accept that even the more sympathetic prosecutors are going to spend almost all of their game time being totally wrong.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 17:25
|
|
|
After mentioned it specifically I went on to document at least 3 different occasions where people actually react to Ryunosuke's internal dialogue. Including the judge himself on one occasion. Also, I'm starting 1-5 now but I absolutely believed that after the Burya mystery Kazuma would turn out to still be alive somehow. He just seemed like a strong and interesting character and it was so drat soon and he just dies sight unseen? Doesn't seem right somehow and I was honestly shocked when he didn't just show up afterwards. I kind of believed Kazuma might've even somehow arranged the entire thing himself to test Ryunosuke, which is kinda crazy but I was trying to explain that feeling that Kazuma can't be dead I kind of still believe it must be the case although I can't explain it and I'm probably wrong lol. I mean, he's a loving week-old corpse at this point how would that work Zulily Zoetrope posted:Oh no, I play the games that way, too, I'm not a freak. In fact, another issue I have with that case is that there's an area where you can examine all the plot critical elements and the story progresses without letting you look at the rest of the background. You can examine it later, but at that point you're visiting without Sholmes and I will never know what two lines of dialogue he'd have about that door, and it haunts me. I mean, this happens pretty much constantly to me in this game. I get why, they don't want to shut out newer players or people who just don't pick it up too quickly, but I feel like several times I have successfully solved a mystery 20 minutes of gametime or more before I'm actually allowed to solve it by the game. The game can be SLIGHTLY over-explanatory at times imo
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 17:30
|
|
|
Play posted:The game can be SLIGHTLY over-explanatory at times imo "Look here at this flag." Huh, that flag has a bullet hole in it. "What's wrong with the flag?" The obvious bullet hole. "Well over here is what the flag is supposed to look like." Well, they are, except no one shot that one "Looks the same to me" Yeah except for the BULLET HOLE "There is a critical difference, inspector" I'M SURE GUMSHOE KNOWS WHAT A BULLET HOLE IS YOU CAN JUST TELL HIM THAT "Please very meticulously show me how these flags are different because I don't get it"
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 17:37
|
|
|
you can look at it a bit more charitably: the literal actual job of the prosecution (at least in the context of this series) is to provide counterarguments to the defence so that they have to properly establish their case and they don't just get away with the first plausible line they come up with. this is why even edgeworth at his most sympathetic is still putting in objections, this is the actually expected and correct method of arriving at the truth. like at the end of GAA 1-4 where after you've finally put together exactly what happened in the case and van Zieks still offers up one last objection to point out a potential flaw (this scene is way too protracted by the way, one of the worst examples in the game of the thing they like to do where ryunosuke treats every objection like it's the end of the world and has to have five minutes of encouraging speeches and soul-searching before you can go on to present the obvious thing), that's not because he's still convinced that there's no way it wasn't the original defendant who actually did it, that's just him doing the thing he's supposed to do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 17:41
|
|
|
van Zieks is probably the second-fairest prosecutor in the series, but he is still a prosecutor. And given the cases in which he's involved, it's pretty reasonable that he sticks to his guns. Like, let's go down the list [full Chronicles spoilers]: 1-3: Locked room stabbing, where only the defendant and victim were present. You eventually establish a third party in the room, but do not claim that they're the killer. Also the defendant is actually the culprit. 1-4: Not a locked room stabbing, but instead a wide open street, where only the defendant and victim were present. You don't really have a case for an alternate explanation before you establish that the victim was moved, at which point van Zieks is fully open to letting Mrs. Garrideb testify. 1-5: Locked room shooting, where only the victim and defendant were present. In this case there's actually an alternate explanation, that the defendant locked the door to hide from the real killer, but van Zieks counters this by establishing that the Skulkins' bullet is accounted for and Gina had the only other gun at the scene. You don't really have a case before discovering the third bullet, and he's willing to force Graydon and Gregson to stick around for a while before that happens. 2-2: Locked room poisoning, where only the defendant and victim had been present, and no food or drink other than the defendant's tea could be found. I thought Ryunosuke was reaching when he suggested the victim had been huffing a poison pipe, and I don't think you had any sort of case before Olive Green had been established to possess both strychnine and a motive. 2-3: A bunch of smoke and mirrors nonsense, but regardless only the defendant was anywhere near the witness at the established time of death. This one was a bit frustrating because I'd pinned the killer before they ever even appeared on screen, but what van Zieks is doing is incredibly obvious. The defendant is his personal friend, who wants his intellectual property safeguarded at all costs. He takes the prosecution and doggedly insists the machine actually worked, making sure that if Albert is found guilty, his research is protected, and makes sure Ryunosuke takes the defense, so in the case the machine is debunked, Albert will also be found not guilty. Short of 2-3 it's entirely reasonable for him to think the defendant is the culprit for far, far longer than can be said of most AA cases, and while he does pull some prosecutor bullshit, he does also give Ryunosuke a whole lot of leeway, often agreeing to requests the judge would be willing to shut down otherwise. I also appreciate that he's generally sympathetic to those he deems innocent, calling the people in McGilded's loan sharking ledger "victims" and being genuinely offended when Ryunosuke tries to implicate people like Bruce Fairplay or either party in 2-2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 18:21
|
|
|
has anyone pointed out how appropriate it is that Ryunosuke literally sleeps in Kazuma's closet
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 18:59
|
|
|
2-2 down. Juror 4 was Brett, no doubt about it. The idle and curtsy animations were dead giveaways. I take back what I said about juries I want 0 total brains in them from now on. Poor British judge is so lost. "Is the defence accusing two different witnesses of two different murders?" Actually of three different murders but yeah. Do you think the bottles Van Zieks throws into the gallery are collector's items? And that was the collar of the hound of the Baskervilles. Welp. Why the f would Mikotoba sr. be involved?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 19:57
|
|
|
Completely stuck at the investigation (1-5) of the Windibank storeroom. I've exhausted all the dialogue options, found 3 blood samples (2 identified), the manuscript and both the pawnbrokers tickets. Obviously I'm missing something very obvious, but I don't know what.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:Completely stuck at the investigation (1-5) of the Windibank storeroom. I've exhausted all the dialogue options, found 3 blood samples (2 identified), the manuscript and both the pawnbrokers tickets. Obviously I'm missing something very obvious, but I don't know what. Did you present some evidence to Gregson? The manuscript IIRC but I'm not sure. I was stuck there too, I don't think it's obvious.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:18
|
|
|
You have to [1-5]present the (box) ticket to Gregson. The game does suggest you do this, but not at any time during the actual conversation with him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:20
|
|
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:"Look here at this flag." Huh, that flag has a bullet hole in it. "What's wrong with the flag?" The obvious bullet hole. "Well over here is what the flag is supposed to look like." Well, they are, except no one shot that one "Looks the same to me" Yeah except for the BULLET HOLE "There is a critical difference, inspector" I'M SURE GUMSHOE KNOWS WHAT A BULLET HOLE IS YOU CAN JUST TELL HIM THAT "Please very meticulously show me how these flags are different because I don't get it" Kind of an unfortunate side effect of needing to make sure EVERYONE who could be playing is onboard.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:21
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:You have to [1-5]present the (box) ticket to Gregson. The game does suggest you do this, but not at any time during the actual conversation with him. Thanks! That was it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:27
|
|
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:"Look here at this flag." Huh, that flag has a bullet hole in it. "What's wrong with the flag?" The obvious bullet hole. "Well over here is what the flag is supposed to look like." Well, they are, except no one shot that one "Looks the same to me" Yeah except for the BULLET HOLE "There is a critical difference, inspector" I'M SURE GUMSHOE KNOWS WHAT A BULLET HOLE IS YOU CAN JUST TELL HIM THAT "Please very meticulously show me how these flags are different because I don't get it" “There’s just one problem Phoenix! Bullets have to come out of something! If you don’t show me a thing that could shoot a bullet at high enough velocity to place a bullet hole in a flag *dramatic pose* YOU HAVE NO CASE!!!” *hubbub in the courtroom at this revelation* (ugh he’s right. This is the end. There’s no way a bullet hole could just appear in a flag without something shooting the bullet. I’ve come so far   I can’t let it end like this…)“Phoenix remember evidence is the basis of everything here in the court system. Maybe there’s something in the court record that could help you” “Of course. OBJECTION! Behold this gun found at the scene of the crime that was the first piece of evidence offered.”
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:31
|
|
|
BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:“There’s just one problem Phoenix! Bullets have to come out of something! If you don’t show me a thing that could shoot a bullet at high enough velocity to place a bullet hole in a flag *dramatic pose* YOU HAVE NO CASE!!!” lmao drat you are capturing the tone/writing perfectly not that I don't love the game, because I absolutely do
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:34
|
|
|
The entire courtroom gasps in amazement as Phoenix reveals that the critical evidence that the culprit had handled the gun... was a smudge mark on the other side of the gun that the police just never got around to looking at, I guess. The amount of times the prosecution and police have been totally blindsided by their persistent inability to rotate items 180 degrees is pretty astounding.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 10:11 |
|
|
The AA universe has only recently become 3D and everyone forgets apart from the protagonist
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:41
|
|
