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Paul MaudDib posted:yeah if I take the lid off it can push 80W at 85C, basically 20W more at the same temps, so it's an airflow problem. out of the box the case has no natural airflow beyond convection - the fan can suck a little bit (although measuring it out, there's about 1cm between the panel and the fan) and it's got enough louvers that air flows out pretty ok but it's not a huge amount of airflow. I don't ever overclock stuff, and I mostly run t series intel or e series amd. I'm idly curious though, if overall you'd get better results in a smaller case like that, if you're turning up the clock speed or multiplier or whatever, using a lower wattage chip and boosting it more? It'd be interesting to see the data on that, but not enough to me to actually test it.
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Aug 19, 2021 21:15
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Broken Machine posted:I don't ever overclock stuff, and I mostly run t series intel or e series amd. I'm idly curious though, if overall you'd get better results in a smaller case like that, if you're turning up the clock speed or multiplier or whatever, using a lower wattage chip and boosting it more? It'd be interesting to see the data on that, but not enough to me to actually test it. nowadays you basically don't want to mess with it because the boost algorithm is doing the best it can with the power and voltage limits. You could certainly push up the power limit on a lower-TDP chip (unless AMD locks it down on those efficiency-focused chips to keep you from doing that? I don't remember if they do) but the efficiency-tier chips aren't actually better silicon at all (if anything they're worse/lower quality silicon), they are basically the same (or lower binned) chips with a lower power limit set on them. now in principle it could save you money if the lower-TDP chips are cheaper (like 3900 vs 3900X) but AMD generally hasn't made those efficiency-focused chips available at general retail either, to keep people from doing exactly that.
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Aug 20, 2021 00:22
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Paul MaudDib posted:... they're not available retail much, no - they're usually sold as a part of an energy / space efficient desktop. they're also a quite good choice for sff use though, and do show up on ebay and such, or you can find a cheap desktop or laptop w/ a broken screen or w/e and pull it. my most recent machine is an sg13 i built from mostly spare parts, and i picked up an oem 3200ge proc, which actually does have an unlocked multiplier. so i could overclock it, and it's on a 120mm asetek aio and would be quiet still, even oc. but that's not my thing, i'd rather it run cool and last forever. but you could do that w/ a similar setup and a bigger power supply, it's just a 250w or so  i just made it mostly to have a chance to build in the sg13, and pick up a modestly priced amd w/ tb3 for travelling. it has an nvme installed though, so it's plenty fast enough for desktop use, and light gaming w/ the apu Broken Machine fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 02:30
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are there any options for a really SFF pc with an ODD bay? I'd kinda like to get my parents an upgrade for their current turboshitty AMD E350-based htpc they use at the family cabin, but they have a big media library stored on blurays. the HDPlex H1 TODD is pretty cute but it doesn't need to be passive. probably the easiest answer is to just get them a motherboard like J4125-ITX I guess, but... 
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Aug 21, 2021 02:09
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Paul MaudDib posted:are there any options for a really SFF pc with an ODD bay? I'd kinda like to get my parents an upgrade for their current turboshitty AMD E350-based htpc they use at the family cabin, but they have a big media library stored on blurays. Older ncase with a slim drive? I bet there is something else console style, but the ncase is what I immediately think of.
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Aug 21, 2021 02:59
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Paul MaudDib posted:are there any options for a really SFF pc with an ODD bay? I'd kinda like to get my parents an upgrade for their current turboshitty AMD E350-based htpc they use at the family cabin, but they have a big media library stored on blurays.
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Aug 21, 2021 03:10
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One of the even smaller Silverstone options might be a better fit, the ML09 or new ML10.
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Aug 21, 2021 03:21
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A lot of the old shuttle-style cases supported optical drives, so if you can find one for sale you're good 
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 04:01
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The United States posted:A lot of the old shuttle-style cases supported optical drives, so if you can find one for sale you're good It’s not tiny but I have and love this case. I like having a DVD drive too.
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Aug 21, 2021 05:10
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Paul MaudDib posted:are there any options for a really SFF pc with an ODD bay? I'd kinda like to get my parents an upgrade for their current turboshitty AMD E350-based htpc they use at the family cabin, but they have a big media library stored on blurays. The Cougar QBX has a slim optical bay. https://cougargaming.com/products/cases2/qbx/ [edit] Only supports slot loading slim ODDs. teagone fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 19:09
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Put the kit back in the ITX and decided to redo the cabling. Before  After  Still to do: Find my last two NFA12s and put them in the bottom as intake so I can flip the cooler fans to intake so I can use the glass side panel. Or get some Lian Li Unifans for some RGB puke.
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Aug 22, 2021 21:19
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The United States posted:A lot of the old shuttle-style cases supported optical drives, so if you can find one for sale you're good I have one of these, it's not super easy to build in but it's a good size if you MUST have an ODD. Dust filter is good, too.
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Aug 23, 2021 03:51
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I'm looking for something the size of a Hdplex H1 TODD, not a shoebox case. I want something wii-sized but with a bluray drive and running windows, or something the size of Mini-Box M350 but taller to fit in a slim ODD. I should see if they'd be open to an "appliance" like a ARM-based something or a console with a media player though. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Aug 23, 2021 |
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Aug 23, 2021 06:08
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To my knowledge no one ever made something quite like the Wii, which basically WAS a 5.25" drive in size. The closest were those AOpen Mac Mini clone cases, which promptly got sued into the ground and now the only way you can find them is someone trying to sell you a complete hackintosh system on eBay. The next closest thing I can find is this Morex case on Newegg which is a typical early 2000s tiny mini itx case with room for a slimline drive on the bottom:   Otherwise yeah all you have left are HTPC cases like the Silverstone RVZ02/ML08 and the previously mentioned ML09 
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Aug 23, 2021 |
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Aug 23, 2021 06:48
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I would probably just get a slimline external drive and arrange it nicely on top or to the side.
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Aug 23, 2021 09:12
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is there any reason to prefer a corsair sf-600 over a seasonic sgx-650 or vice versa? the case i just got can fit either one. ive never done a small computer or used a sfx power supply before.
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Aug 23, 2021 16:23
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fart simpson posted:is there any reason to prefer a corsair sf-600 over a seasonic sgx-650 or vice versa? the case i just got can fit either one. ive never done a small computer or used a sfx power supply before. The Corsair sfx psu’s come with dramatically better quality cables than any other SFX PSU I’ve seen. And cable quality can matter in a small form factor build where you might have some fairly tight routes.
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Aug 23, 2021 16:58
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well there’s something. didn’t see that in any of the reviews, thanks for the heads up. all that’s left is a power supply and gpu and im good to go and i think that steers me towards the corsair power supply
fart simpson fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Aug 23, 2021 |
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Aug 23, 2021 17:02
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The sf600 gold cables are not the nice individual sleeved cables that the platinum units ship with, but I think they’re still better than most. Edit: Newegg has the sf600 plat for 105 after code and rebate with free shipping. If you only need 600 watts, I’d buy that. Canna Happy fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Aug 23, 2021 |
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Aug 23, 2021 17:06
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i probably only need 500 watts. but i live in china and the price isnt much different for the 450 or the 600, and the seasonic all wattages are also almost the same price
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Aug 23, 2021 17:15
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CaptainPsyko posted:The Corsair sfx psu’s come with dramatically better quality cables than any other SFX PSU I’ve seen. Canna Happy posted:The sf600 gold cables are not the nice individual sleeved cables that the platinum units ship with, but I think they’re still better than most.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:17
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fart simpson posted:i probably only need 500 watts. but i live in china and the price isnt much different for the 450 or the 600, and the seasonic all wattages are also almost the same price Corsair 600 gold would still be my pick over a seasonic sfx.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:20
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Canna Happy posted:Corsair 600 gold would still be my pick over a seasonic sfx. 600 gold is about $120 here and platinum is about $130. prob just gonna get the platinum. the 450 gold is about $100 and 450 platinum is $120, and the seasonics are all in the $100-120 range
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Aug 23, 2021 17:24
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I want to replace my old desktop mini-tower with something smaller. Mainly used for Photoshop/web browsing but also for light gaming (no VR or 4k 120fps poo poo but being able to run new games at medium settings would be nice). Are there any good and cheap combinations available? The prebuilt zotac mini-pcs look very pretty and are the perfect size, but they're pricey and for that money I could buy an XPS15 with a discrete graphics card that will serve my needs.
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Aug 23, 2021 21:32
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Z the IVth posted:I want to replace my old desktop mini-tower with something smaller. Mainly used for Photoshop/web browsing but also for light gaming (no VR or 4k 120fps poo poo but being able to run new games at medium settings would be nice). Sure. A good place to start might be to look at Sliger's catalog, they make a lot of interesting cases with high compatibility (at least for SFF, relatively speaking). Those "ATX"/"mATX" cases are smaller than a lot of mITX cases of yesteryear - the full ATX one is 15x14x7. And "sandwich-style" cases are the modern recipe for cramming a relatively high-power GPU into a small case with little wasted space. With the current crop of GPUs it can be a little tough to fit a smaller case - the trend is for board partners to go for giant 2.5/2.75/3 slot coolers. There are some cases that are designed to accommodate that (check out the SM560 there) but even if the cooler fits in terms of slots you also have to keep in mind the card length/width as well, SFF cases are also tighter in those dimensions. Right now the NVIDIA Founders' Edition cards are the smallest that is generally available for their model tiers, but they have pass-through coolers that aren't necessarily the optimal thing for a sandwich case (someone else can probably chime in on that). The Sliger cases aren't cheap, but that's a SFF thing in general. You're paying a premium for size no matter how you go. As you already noticed, SFF prebuilts tend to be expensive as well. And don't necessarily buy a prebuilt and think you're getting an awesome engineered thing that is just plug and play and it'll be super fast and quiet either - a lot of the time you pay more and you get something that's still hot/noisy.
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Aug 23, 2021 21:54
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denereal visease posted:piling on, it's specifically the platinum rated SF-series PSUs that have individually sleeved cables I love seasonic as much as the next guy but there are a fair amount of ITX cases that technically support sfx-l but in practice are a nightmare to build in if you try. I'd go corsair for sure on that alone unless you know your case is gonna have ample room.
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Aug 23, 2021 23:25
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+1 for Corsair SF series. My SF600 is cute and powerful.
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Aug 24, 2021 00:47
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Yuppie same, also totally silent. I have the SF600 platinum. I ended up getting pslate custom cables though as the standard ones are a bit too bulky for my case.
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Aug 24, 2021 03:40
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Paul MaudDib posted:Advice It's a shame that Sliger's in the US and there isn't a UK retailer. Their stuff looks amazing though. What's the opinion on buying a (possibly secondhand) gaming NUC like the Hades Canyon?
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Aug 24, 2021 20:08
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Z the IVth posted:It's a shame that Sliger's in the US and there isn't a UK retailer. Their stuff looks amazing though. It would still be cheaper to build your own tbh. Unless you can get it for really cheap. Also with something like that you are kinda borked if you ever want to do any upgrades
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Aug 24, 2021 22:14
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Z the IVth posted:It's a shame that Sliger's in the US and there isn't a UK retailer. Their stuff looks amazing though. how's shipping from density.sk -they're the official EU distributer for Sliger.
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Aug 24, 2021 22:20
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Z the IVth posted:It's a shame that Sliger's in the US and there isn't a UK retailer. Their stuff looks amazing though. https://www.density.sk/product-category/computer-cases/sliger/ Maybe send them an email to see if you have to pay extra taxes or something. tbh I dunno how the whole shipping to the UK thing works if it's coming from another European country.
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Aug 24, 2021 22:20
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Romes128 posted:https://www.density.sk/product-category/computer-cases/sliger/ Ever since Brexit we eat taxes on European imports unless someone gets creative with the paperwork.
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Aug 24, 2021 23:00
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Z the IVth posted:It's a shame that Sliger's in the US and there isn't a UK retailer. Their stuff looks amazing though. The NUC will definitely be worse than assembling it yourself. It's also not remotely difficult, just needs about a 3/10 level of effort in planning.
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Aug 24, 2021 23:19
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knox_harrington posted:The NUC will definitely be worse than assembling it yourself. It's also not remotely difficult, just needs about a 3/10 level of effort in planning. I've assembled enough PCs to know but it's always such a chore to wrangle the kinks out. And this is for something which I may never play a game on anyway.
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Aug 24, 2021 23:47
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Z the IVth posted:What's the opinion on buying a (possibly secondhand) gaming NUC like the Hades Canyon? don't buy Hades Canyon specifically, because that one turned into a football between Intel and AMD for support (presumably, Intel stopped paying, and AMD stopped supporting) and it's no longer getting drivers. the successor is called Ghost Canyon and that moves to kind of a weird thing where the motherboard is on a PCIe card and it plugs into a backplane that attaches a standard (mITX-sized) graphics card. That one just uses an off-the-shelf NVIDIA graphics card and that will get support like any other NVIDIA card, and could be swapped for any other graphics card that would fit. here's a review/explanation of what I'm talking about because it's a little bizarre from a standard PC design perspective. It also lists the MSI Trident X, Corsair One Pro i200, and HP Omen Obelisk as some other competitors - and I am also aware of the Corsair Bulldog (which is unfortunately limited to 6th/7th Gen Intel chips - so nothing more than quad cores). ghost canyon (and I think there's a new successor now, or coming soon?) is a fine enough design, but you will be limited to a laptop SKU and the boost behavior that entails, plus it currently means that you can only get 14nm processors. Using Zen2/Zen3 is a major advantage in terms of noise/thermals, 7nm reduces the power consumption significantly and the less heat you put out the less you have to dissipate. Basically: you know the saying about "fast, cheap, good, you can pick any two"? SFF very much works the same way. "case volume, noise, thermals, pick any two". For a given amount of heat you have to dissipate, the smaller the volume the more difficult to move air and that translates into higher noise. Or you could not move the air and that increases thermals, and so on. But the easiest answer is to simply dissipate less heat in the first place - normally that means reducing your performance level, but going from 14nm to 7nm is a significant reduction in the power consumption and it's actually faster. AMD processors (at least, Zen2/Zen3 processors using 7nm) are the absolute default answer for doing SFF builds at this point, maybe Alder Lake will be decent later this year but don't buy 14nm chips (NUC or otherwise). the other trick you can use to increase efficiency is underclocking a faster GPU. Power consumption scales faster than clock speeds (it actually scales with the square of the clock speed) and it works the same in reverse, if you underclock it then you will gain significantly more efficiency than you lose (up to a point). A 1080 limited to ~65% power and undervolted (just set the power limit and increase the core clocks until it starts losing stability) will put out 1070 performance at 1060 power consumption. This only works to a point, and you can also end up with frametime problems. If you do this - the 3090 won't scale well (too much VRAM) and I don't know how the 3080 and 3070 Ti will scale either (on paper, GDDR6X pulls less power per bit than GDDR6, but I've never measured a card to see). The other possibility is RDNA2, and I strongly suspect that since it's a 7nm-based card the 6800XT and other AMD cards will scale down nicely as you reduce the clocks. Anyway if you like the Ghost Canyon design then take a look at the Velka cases - these make similar tradeoffs to the Ghost Canyon NUC but use off-the-shelf parts and will allow the use of an AMD 7nm processor on a standard mITX motherboard. Do look at the specs carefully in terms of supported GPU size (all three dimensions!) and CPU cooler size (you are probably looking at a Noctua L9a-AM4). You may well be looking at a mITX sized card anyway given how wide coolers have gotten now, but PcPartPicker can help narrow the search a bit (although apparently they don't allow searching by width). I'd be glad to cross-ship if you wanted something from a company that didn't ship to the UK, but I can't do anything about the import duties  Anyway see my post above about the Mini-box M350 I built, it's tiny because it has an APU with a decent iGPU by iGPU standards (it's about GT 1030 performance). But it also isn't a stellar performer by discrete GPU standards - it can do 720p gaming OK, 1080p is getting to be a stretch, and framerates won't be awesome. That's about as good as integrated graphics get, currently. But I built it for a mini desktop, not for gaming, and it's got a lot of CPU power for the size - a DIY build like this will significantly outperform the TDP-limited and boost-limited laptop CPUs in NUCs and many engineered mini-PCs. If you primarily are going to work, but you want video outs and to run lightweight games occasionally(DOTA, etc), and you can accept the resolution/framerate/quality tradeoffs, that's an option too. The Velka and Sliger cases are the next bigger thing for DIY systems. (I actually can get good framerates at higher resolutions in older games with this - I tested Team Fortress 2 running at 3440x1440 with a performance-optimized config, and I can run 60fps minimum/80-100 fps average, and it'll even max out my monitor at 180fps when not much is happening. But newer stuff is going to be 720p tops and probably closer to 40-50 fps at that.) Going to a mini-PC with a discrete GPU may get the size back down a bit, but it comes at a cost in terms of CPU performance (and GPU performance will not be as good as a full DIY build with a GPU either) and much higher pricetag. And possibly noise/thermals as well depending on the unit - they are not a magic wand either and despite being expensive they are often built cheaply and poorly. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 02:16
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Z the IVth posted:What's the opinion on buying a (possibly secondhand) gaming NUC like the Hades Canyon? I thought you (and others) might find this interesting - these are benchmarks I ran tonight of the Intel 5775C vs the AMD 5700G. The 5775C is probably a reasonable facsimile of the 6770HQ in the Intel Skull Canyon NUC here, probably somewhat above due to higher power limit. The Skull Canyon's 6775HQ does benefit from a better cache design, a faster architecture (Skylake vs Broadwell), DDR4, etc the 5775C here gets a substantially higher TDP (desktop vs laptop) and boost behavior. The 5775C gets a liquid cooler here (in RVZ01). (L4 is not entirely descriptive of the Crystal Well design especially on Skylake-R but) On the other hand, AMD has a way faster iGPU and twice the cores, but is under a low profile noctua air cooler. 5775C vs 5700G: Graphics Score: 1553 vs 3148 (+112.6%) Physics Score (CPU): 10540 vs 24711 (+134.4%) Combined Score: 583 vs 1019 (+74.8%) https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/26142326/fs/26142242 (RAM is running at JEDEC on both of these, and cores are running at stock clocks) This is also probably the absolute best case scenario for Intel, their in-game performance often didn't measure up to the synthetic ones iirc and Skull Canyon almost certainly runs at a much lower TDP than the 5775C. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 12:05
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Lots of things do ok at stock, that could do better with an understanding of better cooling, even withought going berzerk with trying to oc a nuc, it really depends how much you value your time and whats available to you cheap & whats reasonable to you sourcing aftermarket stuff. if you want to do nothing and enjoy a neat little home entertainment center with gaming, Pauls above answer is great, if you really want to go mad and custom make your own playstation 8 with watercooled memory powered by smurf cum, that fits into a drawer on an antique commode, if you have the time and materials to hand, go wild. i mean, we'd all try to help.
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Aug 25, 2021 12:56
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The Velka 7 looks nice but has zero place to put in an intake or exhaust fan as far as I can see. There is quite a lot of information on r/sffpc especially with more niche cases. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AddRvGWJ_f4B6UC7_IftDiVudVc8CJ8sxLUqlxVsCz4/htmlview
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Aug 25, 2021 13:07
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Paul MaudDib posted:5700G info This is actually very helpful. I was looking at GPU prices and god drat they're eye-watering. My plan B is to get something with integrated graphics and a case with enough space so that when prices come down and I find I need it I can add the GPU later. From PcPartPicker PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G 3.9 GHz 6-Core Processor (£238.00 @ Amazon UK) Motherboard: Gigabyte A520I AC Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard (£99.98 @ CCL Computers) Memory: G.Skill Value 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 CL19 Memory (£55.99 @ Amazon UK) Storage: Samsung 980 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£90.97 @ Scan.co.uk) Case: Cooler Master MasterBox NR200 Mini ITX Desktop Case (£77.51 @ Amazon UK) Power Supply: Corsair SF 450 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply (£79.98 @ Amazon UK) Thoughts? There's some potential incompatibility with the mobo that I need to investigate.
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Aug 25, 2021 20:09
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