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I'm still mad Capcom refused my name suggestion for Soseki, Kato Ossa. Also 1-5 I think the Skulkin fruits are originally supposed to reference "apples and pears," a well known bit of cockney rhyming for "stairs." Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 20:09
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Raiten Menimemo is maybe the most on-the-money name in the whole series. I love it.
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Aug 20, 2021 20:35
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How could you forget Rei Membami?
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Aug 20, 2021 20:38
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I’m actually a little miffed about Rei, because while her original name seems a little odd (haori is apparently an article of clothing), the character designer explicitly rejected a name change from Takumi that would’ve given her a much punnier Japanese name on the grounds that it would cheapen (2-1) her relationship with Susato I’m whatever on the other name changes though
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Aug 20, 2021 21:54
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I miss Hart Vortex. Real album title energy
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Aug 20, 2021 22:00
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Phoenix is an uncommon name but it's not implausible. It's symbolic, it's got a nice ring to it, it's good. I expect if he were a side character in a recent game his name would be like Spike Lawyermann
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Aug 20, 2021 22:36
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Took me an embarrassing amount of time to realize Phoenix's "real" name isn't supposed to be "Nick" and Maya just calls him that as a play on the last syllable of "Phoenix."
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Aug 20, 2021 22:45
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With the exception of Asa Shinn, every pun name in these games have gotten a laugh or a good natured groan out of me. Also I'm really unobservant so I didn't even notice some of the pun names until this thread pointed them out.  (ie: Odie Asman and Barry Caidin went right the gently caress over my head)Bif Strogenov is good and my friend.  As is his brother, Tchikin
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Aug 20, 2021 22:52
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I still don't get Odie Asman tbh
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Aug 20, 2021 22:56
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Arist posted:I still don't get Odie Asman tbh Odious man
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Aug 20, 2021 22:58
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Arist posted:I still don't get Odie Asman tbh Oh, the rear end man.
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Aug 20, 2021 23:00
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LostRook posted:Oh, de rear end man. ftfy works better if you're jamaican
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Aug 20, 2021 23:14
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Well I finally beat it, only three weeks later. Good games
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Aug 20, 2021 23:40
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2-4 Trial part 2 God fuckin' dammit Takumi did you just reference Ghost Trick E: Ugh the pizzapasta manboy is offering to take his shirt off, no thanks E2: 
Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 02:17
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Finally finished. I liked the other 3DS ace attornies well enough but I really loved this. The torturous path for it to get to the west, including waiting forever to play the fan patch of the first game and then having to wait forever some more, twistedly ended up adding a lot to the experience. Really blessed game. Well, off to listen to all susato’s themes 1 million times
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Aug 21, 2021 05:21
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Waffleman_ posted:I'm still mad Capcom refused my name suggestion for Soseki, Kato Ossa. I mentioned this but Ringo and Nash are A-tier pun naming because they're very British names but ALSO, ringo and nashi are the Japanese words for apples and pears.
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Aug 21, 2021 07:24
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It helps that everybody has heard of Ringo Starr so lends it some credibility.
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Aug 21, 2021 07:34
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well finished GAA2 yesterday, some thoughts i had while finishing up the final case 2-5: there's a throwaway line where Zieks says he got permission to go into Gregson's scotland yard office to get the diary, no one asks who gave him permission. this feels like part of the case where they simplified and trimmed parts off as it was getting too long. as an example Jigoku outright confesses to putting the body in Gregson's secret flat but acts like it was a spur of the moment decision to try and frame Lipman. the simpler answer is the reaper group were framing Zieks by letting him find Gregson's diary. he coudl have gotten permission after they knew Gregson was dead and the group knew he had a single entry in the diary mentioning the flat and 5pm. instead the focus backtracks onto who killed Gregson and not the logistics of the established frame job and who was aware of all the moving pieces the ad-hoc 10-15m timer based off of a candle and random fireworks bought off a street seller was absurdly risky, but it's ace attorney. the established time of death shift involving the fish and chips? it was fine in 2-4, but when Jigoku says he kenw it fell out of Gregson's pocket and he put it back in after being the freezer? really weird choices all around, could have rewritten that to use an ink smear and a damaged fountain pen from being in the freezer as a throwback to 2-1 but eh the whole focus on who Iris' dad was ignoring the real question of who the mother was, so i'm glad that got explained and was the more relevant piece of the puzzle ever since 2-3 introduced the will plot element it was a bit too obvious it was in the sword's hilt they never properly explain the fight Gregson and Asogi get into in the cabin and how part of his family sword gets embedded in the trunk. on that note i expected the family sword to be intact and the ignored second sword at his hip to be the culprit there, but this case is a bit rushed and is skipping steps all told should have had tap dancing in all of the deductions
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Aug 21, 2021 12:43
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2-4 I have no idea how this isn't the final case, everything about the setup screams it!
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Aug 21, 2021 12:57
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:it was fine in 2-4, but when Jigoku says he kenw it fell out of Gregson's pocket and he put it back in after being the freezer? G2-5 This part stuck out to me as really weird. If Jigoku had just... y'know... thrown the fish and chips away instead of sticking them in his pocket for some absurd reason, the defense might have never sussed onto the whole refrigeration thing.
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Aug 21, 2021 13:02
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I was a bit bummed that (2-5) Jigoku was a villain, he was fun. Stronghart too, because it was a twist you could see a mile away but I wanted someone who looked so imposing and believed so firmly in weeding out corruption to actually not be a bad guy for once. Makes up for it by how spectacular his downfall was, but it's a shame that the system was rotten all the way to the top other than the monarchy. Also I had no idea Soseki was a real person. How many other real people are 'represented' in the game?
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Aug 21, 2021 13:23
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oh there was another part i forgot to mention 2-5: we've established the reaper group is targeting and killing criminals that got past the court system. the deaths are all orchestrated and planned to look like accidents, so what happened in 2-3? the victim was a crime lord that Zeiks' couldn't get a guilty verdict on less than a month ago, but the case's scheme had been active for over a year. Drebber wasn't connected to the overall conspiracy, so was this entire case a coincidence that it matched the reaper's mo? the coroner is connected, but they were brought in late in the conspiracy to coverup the death of the crime lord by Drebber, not by the reaper group...
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Aug 21, 2021 13:23
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ApplesandOranges posted:Also I had no idea Soseki was a real person. How many other real people are 'represented' in the game? Not many, really. Both games minor spoilers: Basically just him and Queen Victoria. Esmerelda Tusspells sort of, though her real world counterpart at this time would be John Tussaud, great grandson of the original Madame Tussaud.
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Aug 21, 2021 13:37
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ApplesandOranges posted:Also I had no idea Soseki was a real person. How many other real people are 'represented' in the game? None other as far as I know. The real life Natsume Soseki really did go to England to study, really did hate it, and eventually went home to Japan and wrote (among other things) Wagahai wa neko de aru, ("We are a cat", somewhat clumsily translated) which rocketed him to literary fame.
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Aug 21, 2021 13:39
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:G2-5 This part stuck out to me as really weird. If Jigoku had just... y'know... thrown the fish and chips away instead of sticking them in his pocket for some absurd reason, the defense might have never sussed onto the whole refrigeration thing. G2-5 Gregson without Fish and Chips? Clearly the scene has been altered!
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Aug 21, 2021 13:45
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OddObserver posted:G2-5 Gregson without Fish and Chips? Clearly the scene has been altered! You know, I think I would've liked that better if what you had to do was present some report indicating that his pockets were empty, which is clearly out of character and thus he wasn't killed there.
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Aug 21, 2021 13:53
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Yeah another thing I thought was sorta odd was that [2-5] a lot of the stuff said about the Reaper just plain didn't add up. Three of his van Zieks' defendants were never targeted by the Reaper. van Zieks' original theory is that the organization only operates within London, but you know that's a lie because Asa Shinn, established as an agent of the Reaper, killed a man in Japan. Naruhodo never bothers investigating this plot thread because Iris happened to be around when he learned of it, but he has plenty of opportunities to ask Barok about John Wilson when she's not around and just... doesn't. So the other conclusion is that the Reaper only targets the actual crime kingpins who can be assumed to have manipulated their trials, and does not kill people who were established to be innocent. This would explain how Gina, who is present for the proceedings, has not been made a target. Crucially, Jigoku also fits into this category; his crime was breaking court property and making insouciant remarks about the British Empire, for which he was charged with making amends. There is no reason to suspect the Reaper would target him. I think my beef with the case on the whole is just that Kazuma is not a very good prosecutor. In 2-4 he's handed a meticulously set up frame job, and Ryunosuke tears it to pieces as soon as the witnesses' tampering with the notice board has been established. From there he spends the entire three days of trial just kind of floundering; no one ever bothers suggesting Daley Vigil could have been the killer, even though he's a much more likely suspect than van Zieks at the end of the first day, he calls for an immediate adjudication when Jigoku goes missing even though Gina is right there, unmurdered, on the stand and he has done nothing to establish van Zieks as the mastermind, and spends the entire third day baselessly accusing him as well. I get they were going for an Edgeworth kind of gambit where he knows most of the facts of the case and has been planning things to arrive at his conclusion, one step shy of the actual truth, in spite of the powers that be who do not want anything to come to light at all, but it feels entirely unearned on his part. van Zieks spends the entire trial upstaging him, despite being the defendant, and at no point did I find myself disagreeing with his assertion that Kazuma is wholly disqualified from prosecuting this case. E: Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:oh there was another part i forgot to mention This part I don't actually have much of a beef with, [still 2-5]while it would have been nice to have a throwaway about Assman and McGilded and maybe another couple unrelated incidents, it can be inferred that most of his free defendants were indeed the targets of the Reaper, given that their names appeared in Gregson's secret reaping notebook. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 13:54
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It's been a while since I finished the game, so I'm a bit fuzzy on some of details, but (2-5)how was it the Professor killings started again? Was it just Klein being so disillusioned with politics that he had his dog kill one or two people, Stronghart found out, and blackmailed him to start offing his political rivals? Then after the fourth murder, the guilt got too much for him?
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Aug 21, 2021 13:59
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Yeah another thing I thought was sorta odd was that [2-5] a lot of the stuff said about the Reaper just plain didn't add up. Three of his van Zieks' defendants were never targeted by the Reaper. van Zieks' original theory is that the organization only operates within London, but you know that's a lie because Asa Shinn, established as an agent of the Reaper, killed a man in Japan. Naruhodo never bothers investigating this plot thread because Iris happened to be around when he learned of it, but he has plenty of opportunities to ask Barok about John Wilson when she's not around and just... doesn't. It doesn't explain why Naruhodo didn't ask about it, but the reason Asa Shinn was sent to Japan was explicitly to get rid of John Wilson because he knew about the coverup in the Professor case and Stronghart was making a run for the top dog position and wanted the loose ends cleaned up. It shouldn't strictly speaking be considered a Reaper killing, even though the same assassin was involved. Likely Stronghart is really only interested in delivering his brand of justice within England, and doesn't care about criminals that flee abroad. ApplesandOranges posted:It's been a while since I finished the game, so I'm a bit fuzzy on some of details, but (2-5)how was it the Professor killings started again? Was it just Klein being so disillusioned with politics that he had his dog kill one or two people, Stronghart found out, and blackmailed him to start offing his political rivals? Then after the fourth murder, the guilt got too much for him? Klint failed to prosecute a criminal due to the jury being bribed to hell and back, got mad, and killed him via doggo. Stronghart immediately finds out and blackmails him into killing three more (implied to be innocent of any crimes) for Stronghart's political ambitions, whereupon Klint commits suicide-by-duel with Asogi because he hated what he had become and how he was being used.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:02
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2-5 The one Reaper kill that happened on foreign soil was a special case because Mael was attempting to silence anyone who was involved in the Professor autopsy.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:04
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2-4 I think I heard somewhere that the Sherlock games were originally planned to be a trilogy at some point and had to be cut down to a duology. Because what happened with Gregson seems to line up with that. They tried to garner sympathy for his death, but it feels like there was an entire fallout with him about 1-5 that got cut out cause it basically never got mentioned again and that was a pretty sleezy thing for him to do that gets swiftly glossed over. And 2-3 was the only actual case that took place after 1-5 so there was no room to fit in an arc or whatever to make him more sympathetic beyond mentions of him mentoring Gina.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:09
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:It doesn't explain why Naruhodo didn't ask about it, but the reason Asa Shinn was sent to Japan was explicitly to get rid of John Wilson because he knew about the coverup in the Professor case and Stronghart was making a run for the top dog position and wanted the loose ends cleaned up. It shouldn't strictly speaking be considered a Reaper killing, even though the same assassin was involved. Likely Stronghart is really only interested in delivering his brand of justice within England, and doesn't care about criminals that flee abroad. Granted, but it does establish that there is absolutely no reason the Reaper would target Jigoku at the symposium. The actual thing I was expecting Naruhodo to claim instead of throwing in the towel when Jigoku went missing was that if the Reaper wanted to kill him, he could have done so while Jigoku was still in Japan, given that he obviously had the ability to send assassins there. Like we eventually learn why Wilson was targeted and Jigoku wasn't, but Kazuma's case did absolutely not hold up when compared against the things Ryunosuke knew at the time.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:11
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The weird thing with the whole (2-5) Asa Shinn thing is that by hiring an assassin to take out a loose end.... you create another loose end. Stronghart was probably lucky that Asa herself got murdered, since otherwise she now has something to dangle against Stronghart unless she would 100% never betray him.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:14
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That, I think, doesn't necessarily follow, either: she doesn't have to know who is at the top of the chain. She presumably gets her instructions through an intermediary, like Gregson. Kazuma was part of the exchange and definitely did not know who was giving Jigoku his orders.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:26
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(2-5) The whole assassin exchange thing is weird to be perfectly honest. It just introduces unnecessary risk by calling in favors and turning a relatively simple assassination mission into a convoluted conspiracy involving multiple people in multiple countries, one of which is the descendant of someone you already framed for murder ten years ago. If Gregson had just mysteriously been assassinated in London, and then Asa Shinn went on the exchange trip and killed Wilson, none of this would've happened. But that's Ace Attorney, isn't it?
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Aug 21, 2021 14:28
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Yeah another thing I thought was sorta odd was that [2-5] a lot of the stuff said about the Reaper just plain didn't add up. Three of his van Zieks' defendants were never targeted by the Reaper. van Zieks' original theory is that the organization only operates within London, but you know that's a lie because Asa Shinn, established as an agent of the Reaper, killed a man in Japan. Naruhodo never bothers investigating this plot thread because Iris happened to be around when he learned of it, but he has plenty of opportunities to ask Barok about John Wilson when she's not around and just... doesn't. [G2-5] I think the thing with that is simply that the Reaper isn't magical; it's limited by practicality. They don't actually need to kill every defendant; once they've established that the Reaper's blade may take months or years to fall there can never be anyone spared by the Reaper, only defendants who haven't been killed yet. So it's fine to let a minor criminal like Jigoku live on in Japan for ten years because killing him would be awkward and complicated to set up; it doesn't hinder the "everyone dies eventually" narrative, especially since he is attacked when he tries to return to England. Wilson is a very different case; he's not a potential Reaper target, he's a specific danger, so Strongheart is willing to go to much greater lengths to ensure his death. If killing Soseki or Gina had been easy I think the Reaper would have absolutely done so, but Soseki was more difficult to reach in Japan and Gregson was protecting Gina, so killing either of them immediately would have been a lot of effort that really wasn't needed to maintain the myth.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:33
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Most of the stuff discussed in the secret government document that is this page seems like the sort of meaningless details that cinemasins would point out as a plot hole
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Aug 21, 2021 14:41
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2-3 and 2-4 God that build up to the pursuit theme is such a good track. And that moment where it plays for the first time is so good. Also okay maybe they weren't trying to make Gregson entirely sympathetic with the shady dealings that came to light. Gonna go off on a limb here and theorize that he was an accomplice or one of the many members propping up the Reaper of the Bailey somehow. I doubt he was the actual reaper himself though.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:51
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2-4 Did I miss when we learned that Jezail Brett was Asa Shinn or is this just coming out of nowhere
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Aug 21, 2021 15:45
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Waffleman_ posted:2-4 Did I miss when we learned that Jezail Brett was Asa Shinn or is this just coming out of nowhere I think it happened in 2-3? When Susato returns?
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Aug 21, 2021 15:55
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