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General Battuta posted:The sad thing about all this is that I’ve actually been having a great time in random battles lately I've been having a terrible time because I stupidly decided that the MAERKER was a good investment. This bote sucks! Though it's been fine in my other ships. Very few CV encounters lately, woo. This whole thing sucks but I also don't want to stop playing because I'm an idiot who spent money on this game.
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Aug 19, 2021 15:21
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:This was their big holiday event for 2020: loot boxes. Loot boxes that had a low chance of giving you a ship, and if they did, then you had to go down a checklist of awful ships before you literally had any kind of chance of getting anything you might actually want. They denied this and lied about it until people pretty much proved it, at which point it was miscommunication of course. I don't see why this is any worse than just selling loot boxes in general. Why would you assume that all ships are equally likely to drop from the loot box?
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Aug 19, 2021 15:56
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James Garfield posted:I don't see why this is any worse than just selling loot boxes in general. Why would you assume that all ships are equally likely to drop from the loot box? Because iirc it was sold on the basis that you had a chance to get a particular type(s) of ship from the loot box but basically you had to win enough less desirable ships from loot boxes before you had a chance to get the one that was advertised.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:00
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James Garfield posted:I don't see why this is any worse than just selling loot boxes in general. Why would you assume that all ships are equally likely to drop from the loot box? Because even in hosed up predatory gambling land there’s a difference between “you have a tiny chance of getting a ship you really want” and “you have literally zero chance of getting what you want until you’ve drawn these booby prizes nobody wants”. One is predatory exploitation of how bad we are at statistics, one is just lying about what you can get when you buy a box. Both suck but one sucks more.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:03
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James Garfield posted:I don't see why this is any worse than just selling loot boxes in general. Why would you assume that all ships are equally likely to drop from the loot box? There's a wee bit of a difference between "not all ships are equally likely to drop from the loot box" and "you literally have 0 chance of getting ship X until you get ship Y, you literally have no chance of getting ship Y until you get ship Z etc...". And I mean literally literally. poo poo was loving rigged. It drat near got them sued by the EU. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hyuejlhsts Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 16:16
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Counterpoint: Those ships are either still currently available to purchase if you just want to purchase them, still currently available to earn for free in game currency like coal, steel, or free xp, or they were available at some point for those. And, those ships are not necessary in any way to enjoy the game, or be successful at playing the game. As for being "the worst of the worst" - have you seen the loot mechanics in FIFA? Genshin Impact? Any of the Gatcha games? All I'm saying is that to think Wargaming is the worst of the worst is simply naive. Yes, it would be fantastic of the industry as a whole were to shift to a more transparent and less exploitive model, but you could say that probably about every single thing everyone in the developed world spends money on. It's a bit like saying we need to treat this horrible heart disease by focusing on a toenail first.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:30
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Sure I've seen them. They suck poo poo as well and IMO at the most generous reading they're pretty drat comparable to what WoWS is like these days. But in some ways WoWS is even worse, IMO. Genshin Impact has bad luck protection mechanics where you're guaranteed something good for every X lootboxes at the very least. Now, I don't think they're doing this from the goodness of their heart, but that's something WoWS either doesn't have, or X is so huge it functionally doesn't have anything like this. It's entirely possible to buy like 75 expensive loot boxes and walk away with a bunch of signals and consumable camos. To the best of my knowledge EA also haven't pulled WG-esque stunts like the "shortlist" bullshit that was apparently going on for a lot longer than just 2020 before people started making a lot of noise about it. If you buy a FIFA Ultimate Team pack, you can get Ronaldo or Messi. If you buy a WG lootbox, you're 100% guaranteed to get a loving Makarov unless you're one of the suckers who bought it when it was on sale and kept it. Again, I am not defending EA or Genshin Impact, or loot boxes in general. They can gently caress off. I just think WG are actually and literally the worst of the worst* in some respects. * at least for companies that anyone knows in the west. I'm sure there's some truly reprehensible poo poo going on in smaller mobile / browser games but for big western games I struggle to think of many worse than WG of 2021. And again, there's no reason to suspect they're done sliding. Until some regulatory body goes after them, this poo poo will just keep getting worse.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:42
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Sure I've seen them. They suck poo poo as well and IMO at the most generous reading they're pretty drat comparable to what WoWS is like these days. But, a big difference to those other games, all of that content was also available at some point either for a single flat price, or in many cases, for free. All of the really desirable fun ships that aren't tech tree that I play regularly are Free XP, Coal, and Steel ships. All totally free.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:45
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toadee posted:But, a big difference to those other games, all of that content was also available at some point either for a single flat price, or in many cases, for free. All of the really desirable fun ships that aren't tech tree that I play regularly are Free XP, Coal, and Steel ships. All totally free. Well, not always. I mean, maybe for you, but they've also famously "retired" some OP ships, only to chuck them in loot boxes as intentional bait. Want a Belfast? Get loot boxing. Want a Smolensk? Get that credit card out, son, and get to boxing! IMO that's worse. If something is truly so detrimental to the game's balance that you have to take it out of rotation, don't put it in loot boxes as bait. E: but honestly trying to rank the worst of loot boxes in any kind of conclusive order is kind of beside the point. The original question was, "why are players up in arms about this", and IMO the answer is that "fairly recently WoWS had very little loot boxes, now the game is a legit contender as one of the worst in the business". Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 16:47
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Well, not always. I mean, maybe for you, but they've also famously "retired" some OP ships, only to chuck them in loot boxes as intentional bait. Want a Belfast? Get loot boxing. Want a Smolensk? Get that credit card out, son, and get to boxing! I just can't agree, again because in WoWS, you have still always been able to obtain all of these ships either for free or without loot mechanics. The nerfed Missouri was the first change to this and it got called out, and now you can also get it for a flat fee. In those other games, you HAVE to engage in the loot mechanic to ever have a chance at obtaining it. e: also, beside the point but Belfast is poo poo in randoms now, and doesn't even really dominate T7 ranked, and Smolensk was butchered by the captain rework - it's still a good light cruiser but it's not infuriating to play against or ubiquitous like before toadee fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 16:53
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Well, not always. I mean, maybe for you, but they've also famously "retired" some OP ships, only to chuck them in loot boxes as intentional bait. Want a Belfast? Get loot boxing. Want a Smolensk? Get that credit card out, son, and get to boxing! If you want a Belfast or Smolensk the answer was to buy it (with no loot box necessary, and in the case of the Smolensk for free) before it was removed. The developers removing premium ships from sale instead of balancing them is a case of Wargaming being bad, but in a completely different way. Also why are Belfast and Smolensk your examples of "really desirable fun ships" 
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Aug 19, 2021 17:10
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toadee posted:I just can't agree, again because in WoWS, you have still always been able to obtain all of these ships either for free or without loot mechanics. The nerfed Missouri was the first change to this and it got called out, and now you can also get it for a flat fee. In those other games, you HAVE to engage in the loot mechanic to ever have a chance at obtaining it. Only if you have been in the game when they were offered. If you are a newer player then you only get to those ships by lottery.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:20
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That Works posted:Only if you have been in the game when they were offered. If you are a newer player then you only get to those ships by lottery. Sure, but to me that hardly makes WG "the worst of the worst"
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Aug 19, 2021 18:23
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James Garfield posted:Also why are Belfast and Smolensk your examples of "really desirable fun ships" They are my examples of ships a lot of people want and have no way of getting besides loot boxes. Ships that were removed because WG flat out said they were too good to be sold anymore, but apparently not too good to be sold to people who are willing to drop a few hundo on loot boxes. You got anything to say on the previous point though? For some bizarre reason you seem to be hell bent on defending WG.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:58
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:They are my examples of ships a lot of people want and have no way of getting besides loot boxes. Ships that were removed because WG flat out said they were too good to be sold anymore, but apparently not too good to be sold to people who are willing to drop a few hundo on loot boxes. A lot of people want those ships because they want to pay to win (and in the case of Smolensk, also because they're bad so they think buying a Smolensk in 2021 is paying to win). What a tragedy that they have to pay more to win than they would like. The actual problem is that Wargaming refuses to balance premium ships, but the same official forums and reddit posters who are up in arms about selling ships in loot boxes also threw a fit when Wargaming tried to balance the Giulio Cesare, and whenever a premium ship is released at the same power level as tech tree ships say "meh not worth it".
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Aug 19, 2021 19:12
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:They are my examples of ships a lot of people want and have no way of getting besides loot boxes. Ships that were removed because WG flat out said they were too good to be sold anymore, but apparently not too good to be sold to people who are willing to drop a few hundo on loot boxes. Because the cycle of legitimate complaint turning into outage turning into endless hyperbole doesn't seem productive. It only weakens an argument to stretch the truth to try to support it - for example the now constant refrain of how the game is "marketed to Children". This is the same game these same people were a while ago saying was doomed because the average player age is like 50 or so. The games content rating is not it's marketing, it's just what a ratings board says about it.
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Aug 19, 2021 19:12
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Hopefully this won't get lost in the WG chat, but I have enough steel for any ship and am torn between Bourgogne and Stalingrad. I know most of the arguments for and against each but its a big investment so wanting one final round of opinions before I pull the trigger, if you have any.
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Aug 19, 2021 20:03
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Bourgogne is a fun ship that is of basically no use in competitive outside of some very strange fringe strategies. Stalingrad can be fun, and is a competitive staple. If you think you will ever be involved with a clan that plays any competitive T10, you must have Stalingrad. Otherwise, do you like fast HE BBs, or do you like collecting citadels from people who don't know how to angle. Both will murder your PR if you don't know how to use them.
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Aug 19, 2021 20:24
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There's a certain majesty to the Stalingrad. Yes the Petro is a tankier beast that can do most of the things the Stalingrad can and Moskva is better at nose-in fighting, but nothing in this game matches the bliss when Papa Joseph reaches down from above and guides your horrific laser beam shells into some broadsiding moron's citadel from any range. To me it is still the essential first steel ship to grab. It eats poo poo if people know how to play against it but with this playerbase you'll always have some mouth-breather to slap around.
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Aug 20, 2021 04:12
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When I got my first T10 I didn't really have a concept of what ships did what (or of their relative power) so I would cheerfully try to take on Stalingrads in my lil Zao. Got over that pretty quick!
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Aug 20, 2021 04:18
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What are you talking about? WG doubled down in their Q&A last week (after the previous "total games played matters, right?" one) that Zao is absolutely competitive in any game mode and has lots of great features which line up fine with the current state of the game, and thus needs no buffs whatsoever. In other news, this is hilarious.  "Technical limitations," huh?
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Aug 20, 2021 05:46
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They want it to be as hard as possible to do anything to get the Missouri outside of buying the lootboxes. Sure they can point to being able to buy it outright but you have to email them and raise a support ticket and wait for them to get back to you. All the while you're going to be bombarded with the Missouri wargambling boxes.
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Aug 20, 2021 06:56
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serious gaylord posted:They want it to be as hard as possible to do anything to get the Missouri outside of buying the lootboxes. Sure they can point to being able to buy it outright but you have to email them and raise a support ticket and wait for them to get back to you. I believe they said you can use the premium shop (in your web browser), you just won't be able to do it for doubloons in the armory (because with the current update they cant have a campaign gated item in the armory). So, if you don't want to use real money and you do want to use doubloons, you will have to, but you can just use the premium shop if you want to just pay cash.
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Aug 20, 2021 13:41
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toadee posted:I believe they said you can use the premium shop (in your web browser), you just won't be able to do it for doubloons in the armory (because with the current update they cant have a campaign gated item in the armory). So, if you don't want to use real money and you do want to use doubloons, you will have to, but you can just use the premium shop if you want to just pay cash. Which is a total load of poo poo considering they've added missions mid armory patch before. Also to use the web browser and dubs you have to contact customer support. It's just poo poo all around.
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Aug 20, 2021 20:12
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Thronde posted:Which is a total load of poo poo considering they've added missions mid armory patch before. Also to use the web browser and dubs you have to contact customer support. Yes, you can add a mission, but they have never made an item only appear in the armory if you have completed a campaign. It's probably just not something any of the various API elements have properties for right now, and while yes, it is Im sure something that someone could fix, if you know at all about the world of software development, you know that things are planned well in advance, and what likely happened here is someone said "can we do this right now?" "no it'd need a code change" "do we have a workaround?" "yeah just buy it in the shop for cash, or contact support" "ok well then it's not going to bump *some other item in the Sprint*".
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Aug 20, 2021 20:20
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Thronde posted:It's just poo poo all around.
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Aug 20, 2021 20:22
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toadee posted:Yes, you can add a mission, but they have never made an item only appear in the armory if you have completed a campaign. It's probably just not something any of the various API elements have properties for right now, and while yes, it is Im sure something that someone could fix, if you know at all about the world of software development, you know that things are planned well in advance, and what likely happened here is someone said "can we do this right now?" "no it'd need a code change" "do we have a workaround?" "yeah just buy it in the shop for cash, or contact support" "ok well then it's not going to bump *some other item in the Sprint*". Add a currency Missouribux You get 1 missouribuck by paying doubloons You get 1 missouribuck by completing campaign Missouri costs 2 bux
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Aug 21, 2021 12:45
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:Add a currency Missouribux Adding a new currency likely also requires a code change - recall that they said the campaign was already planned for something else. They were clearly trying to get something done as quickly as possible to address a rather urgent fomenting rage.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:13
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Clone Missouri like the ships that have black versions. You keep old Missouri and create a new one without the multiplier.
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Aug 21, 2021 15:16
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Ok guys, when is the proper time to transfer from coop battles to actual humans. I am tiers IV-V and coop is getting pretty boring but mechanically speaking seems a preferable option considering that you get your 50% bonus for winning and its way harder to win against humans vs bots.
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Aug 22, 2021 06:45
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Sekenr posted:Ok guys, when is the proper time to transfer from coop battles to actual humans. I am tiers IV-V and coop is getting pretty boring but mechanically speaking seems a preferable option considering that you get your 50% bonus for winning and its way harder to win against humans vs bots. I transferred over as soon as the game let me and it turned out okay. You just have to accept that you're going to be dumpstered periodically and reflect on not only when you die but a couple minutes before that. Reviewing a replay when you get owned particularly hard may help. Switch classes to what's killing you if you think you're hitting a wall.
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Aug 22, 2021 07:32
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Sekenr posted:Ok guys, when is the proper time to transfer from coop battles to actual humans. I am tiers IV-V and coop is getting pretty boring but mechanically speaking seems a preferable option considering that you get your 50% bonus for winning and its way harder to win against humans vs bots. As soon as possible, there's no reason to play coop except to chill out. Your XP gains are hugely reduced.
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Aug 22, 2021 13:36
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Sekenr posted:Ok guys, when is the proper time to transfer from coop battles to actual humans. I am tiers IV-V and coop is getting pretty boring but mechanically speaking seems a preferable option considering that you get your 50% bonus for winning and its way harder to win against humans vs bots. Coop base XP is so much lower that this really isn't an advantage.
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Aug 22, 2021 13:59
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I can't imagine playing co-op all the way to Tier IV. You must have the patience of a saint.
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Aug 22, 2021 16:20
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Coop also promotes bad habits like "going forward".
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Aug 22, 2021 16:28
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Sekenr posted:you get your 50% bonus for winning and its way harder to win against humans vs bots. Unless you get really lucky in the coop game, you get more xp losing in a random than winning with the 50% daily bonus in coop.
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Aug 22, 2021 17:57
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James Garfield posted:Unless you get really lucky in the coop game, you get more xp losing in a random than winning with the 50% daily bonus in coop. This. It’s not even close. You get more XP dying in the first two minutes of a random battle—win or lose—than you get winning co-op battles half the time.
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Aug 23, 2021 00:29
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Co-op is useful twice a year to knock snowflakes/bullshit off of your huge ship library to pick up whatever prizes wargaming throws at the community for xmas and its anniversary. It's also sometimes a good place to knock out mission objectives like 'spot X amount of torpedoes' quickly without loving up your random games. Outside of that though jesus christ avoid co-op, there are some very very strange creatures that live in there. I had a guy in-game message me every day for like a week because I had the audacity to barrel through a cap and kill everything in there in an Alsace because I "ruined a very good opportunity for us all to collect 'defended' flags" fuckin run mate before your brain becomes that kind of mush.
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Aug 23, 2021 02:17
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Literally had one serious though about reinstalling this game and then my power has been put for the last 48h since that.
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Aug 24, 2021 01:44
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I sort of wish there was more incentive to play lower tiers. They can be quite fun. Its also retarded that getting achievemnts yields next to no rewards now.
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Aug 24, 2021 15:10
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