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Esran posted:lmao "We" did remove the Taliban from power if you want to be super pedantic. It's just that the plan from there was "kill them and use threats of force until they become a Western Democracy" which somehow didn't work. Also, my favourite take on the transistors is that technically they were hired by private contractors to the British and American militaries, so clearly the fact that they were 100% attached to Danish troops, wore Danish uniforms and were, in actual reality and probably physically, paid by Danish military personnel is irrelevant and they should apply for protection in the UK and USA.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:37
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Randarkman posted:Does Denmark actually think their contribution in Afghanistan was significant? Us and the Danes were hangers-on, at best. We did make significant contributions to the suffering of the civilians whose family members we killed and then paid a few hundred bucks in blood money. Credit where credit is due.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:26
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BonHair posted:"We" did remove the Taliban from power if you want to be super pedantic. It's just that the plan from there was "kill them and use threats of force until they become a Western Democracy" which somehow didn't work. Sure, but even allowing for pedantry that's a bit of a lame defense. If the goal was to remove the Taliban from power, I think he should probably also want them to stay out of power, not pop back in after a 20 years in timeout. Even a massive racist should know it looks bad to screw over people that helped you during an occupation, I guess we've reached the "late British Empire" stage of competence in the political class.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:30
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BonHair posted:"We" did remove the Taliban from power if you want to be super pedantic. It's just that the plan from there was "kill them and use threats of force until they become a Western Democracy" which somehow didn't work. lol no, that was never the plan, that was the media spin
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Aug 15, 2021 20:50
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Esran posted:Sure, but even allowing for pedantry that's a bit of a lame defense. If the goal was to remove the Taliban from power, I think he should probably also want them to stay out of power, not pop back in after a 20 years in timeout. It's absolutely lame. The thing is that the massive racists have both the "we should have kept a military presence" card and the "we should have never been there in the first place" card, along with the ever popular "I didn't personally vote for that" card. Also their electorate probably only care about perceived number of brown people this year, not our long term national reputation or ability to perform military or diplomatic operations. Orientering på P1 had a cool interview with some professional soldier last week, where he was like "all that talk about who employed them is bullshit, we worked with them, we endangered them, we should bring them to safety in Denmark right the gently caress now".
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Aug 15, 2021 20:58
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Anyone remember when Støjberg effectuated the Thorning government's deportation order for a pair of teenaged, orphaned Hazara brothers to be sent right into the hands of the Taliban, resulting in the younger's almost immediate murder and the elder's repeated rape and torture and subsequent escape into Iran for the second time in his young life, then he tried once more for asylum in Denmark? And DF maintains it was the right thing to do. He'll probably be told he's not personally persecuted and sent back for the Taliban to finish the job. I made the mistake of googling the story to confirm the details I remembered. Just hundreds and hundreds of comments by salivating inbred nazi mutants braying for him to be deported again. And that was Politiken. I hate this country so much.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:59
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thotsky posted:Voted Rødt; I wish I had looked into what representatives were more radical, but I just went with the default list order. Meh, preferansevalg don't really work unless half does it, and that rarely happens in the national elections.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:00
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Esran posted:Sure, but even allowing for pedantry that's a bit of a lame defense. If the goal was to remove the Taliban from power, I think he should probably also want them to stay out of power, not pop back in after a 20 years in timeout. At least the Americans achieved the real objective, transferring unimaginable amounts of wealth into the pockets of rich people. I suppose Fogh got to be king of NATO for a while?
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Aug 15, 2021 21:08
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I suppose Fogh got to be king of NATO for a while? That was specifically obtained by shuttering a small Kurdish TV station amid the whole "free speech" debacle.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:13
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Rincewinds posted:Meh, preferansevalg don't really work unless half does it, and that rarely happens in the national elections. the representatives get to look up how many personal votes they got and feel good about it, so it's not completely wasted
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Aug 15, 2021 21:16
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V. Illych L. posted:the representatives get to look up how many personal votes they got and feel good about it, so it's not completely wasted i see you, list filler #15, i see you and i gotchu.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:32
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i know people who've had filler positions and have gotten a hundred or so personal votes. they always seem genuinely touched.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:28
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Aug 16, 2021 00:34
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SplitSoul posted:That was specifically obtained by shuttering a small Kurdish TV station amid the whole "free speech" debacle.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:38
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Huh, I wasn't aware. Well, then Afghanistan was just a big waste of time. Yeah, ROJ-TV. It was mentioned in the Wikileaks embassy cables.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:40
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SplitSoul posted:Yeah, ROJ-TV. It was mentioned in the Wikileaks embassy cables. it's hilarious how much dirty poo poo goes on to get people these jobs stoltenberg pretty obviously got his term as NATO gen-sec by bypassing parliament and just trumping through norwegian participation in the incredibly disastrous libya war, for instance
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Aug 16, 2021 17:47
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Lövfen avgår som statsminister, wtf That came out of nowhere
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Aug 22, 2021 11:21
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Oh also wikileaks apparently leaked that in 2007 Reinfeldts gov wanted to use Gripen to bomb Afghanistan as a PR exercise to promote the swedish aircraft
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Aug 22, 2021 11:31
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McCloud posted:Oh also wikileaks apparently leaked that in 2007 Reinfeldts gov wanted to use Gripen to bomb Afghanistan as a PR exercise to promote the swedish aircraft lol jesus christ
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Aug 22, 2021 12:33
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McCloud posted:Oh also wikileaks apparently leaked that in 2007 Reinfeldts gov wanted to use Gripen to bomb Afghanistan as a PR exercise to promote the swedish aircraft I mean, if it works for Israel 
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Aug 22, 2021 12:37
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McCloud posted:Lövfen avgår som statsminister, wtf Good riddance. Also lol at him getting thrown out as PM after a non confidence vote, becomes PM again and then resigns. Which also means that this have not been planned for long. Watch Löfven do a Reinfeldt and dump the whole situation on a female (Magdalena Andersson)
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Aug 22, 2021 13:37
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Now with source https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1428710758305734658?s=19
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Aug 22, 2021 13:50
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McCloud posted:Oh also wikileaks apparently leaked that in 2007 Reinfeldts gov wanted to use Gripen to bomb Afghanistan as a PR exercise to promote the swedish aircraft That's the MIC for ya. Or just militaries in general; a lot of this whole thing where random rear end small nations join nonsensical imperialist adventures in weird places is because small militaries really, really wanna hang with the big kids. Not just at exercise, they wanna bond over killing people. And we got Operation Gripen Marketing a few years later in Libya anyway - it was UN sanctioned so less politically sensitive - but then the riksdag limited it to recon only, no bombing. Then the Air Force hosed up the fuel logistics (the base didn't have the right type of fuel or something; you'd think that it's NATO standard but apparently not) and had to drive a tanker truck convoy all the way from Sweden to Sicily, but in the end there was much rejoicing and chest-beating about how much the big kids liked us. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Aug 22, 2021 |
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Aug 22, 2021 14:03
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Also from the thread: https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/1218420 quote:Ovärderligt pr-värde
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Aug 22, 2021 14:07
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The only surprising thing is that they wrote down the quiet part. Like, it's not rocket science, showing off your hardware is good PR. Just discretely mention that in passing, don't write a report of whatever. The grifters will catch on either way.
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Aug 22, 2021 14:11
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Never known swedes to be able to shut up about anything.
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Aug 22, 2021 15:06
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On one hand it's good to get rid of löv but on the other hand whoever the replacement is they're not likely to be any better.  Also: Nice piece of fish posted:Never known swedes to be able to shut up about anything.
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Aug 23, 2021 23:48
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 please no
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Aug 24, 2021 00:54
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TheFluff posted:
They’d more likely elect Jimmie Åkesson than Dan Eliasson.
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Aug 25, 2021 07:45
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TheFluff posted:That's the MIC for ya. Or just militaries in general; a lot of this whole thing where random rear end small nations join nonsensical imperialist adventures in weird places is because small militaries really, really wanna hang with the big kids. Not just at exercise, they wanna bond over killing people. And we got Operation Gripen Marketing a few years later in Libya anyway - it was UN sanctioned so less politically sensitive - but then the riksdag limited it to recon only, no bombing. Then the Air Force hosed up the fuel logistics (the base didn't have the right type of fuel or something; you'd think that it's NATO standard but apparently not) and had to drive a tanker truck convoy all the way from Sweden to Sicily, but in the end there was much rejoicing and chest-beating about how much the big kids liked us. Yep. This should be a mandatory read for any Swede who is even remotely sympathetic towards our involvement in this whole afghan brouhaha: https://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/a/dnvdlA/den-enda-nation-usa-byggde-var-sin-egen This whole affair was a rediculous scam from day one. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 09:10
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Danish nurses right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbD1XDhKr8U A few months ago, the nurses rejected a proposed collective agreement with their employer. The agreement would give them cost of living adjustments (more or less, 5% raise overall) over the next 3 years. Since the rejection, the nurses have been striking. My understanding is that their employer (the Danish Regions) probably can't choose to pay the nurses more without paying other groups less, I think most of their funding comes from the national government, so increased overall funding would need national politicians to get involved, which the nurses have been hoping they would. In spite of the politicians tripping over each other to applaud the nurses for working extra during the pandemic, the monkey's paw has curled, and the Social Democrats are now intervening, by ordering the nurses to get back to work, under the agreement they rejected a few months ago. Since libs get sexually aroused from paying consultants to run commissions, the agreement also sets up a commission to research whether jobs like nursing and other care professions are underpaid compared to traditionally male-held jobs like doctors. The last such commission (in 2010) concluded that they were, which has been studiously ignored by every government since.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:25
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But that was years ago. You can't trust a set of experiences and conclusions based on those experiences if they come from another time than the immediate present, or - God forbid - another country! That's just not the Danish way.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:31
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It will do wonders for the nurse shortage, I'm sure. They should continue striking illegally and let the fall-winter wave force their hand. The Danish Model is  .
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Aug 26, 2021 20:37
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The Danish regions are massively stupid, especially in this context. They pretty much only do healthcare (I'm hedging there because i don't remember in detail, but I'm pretty sure there's no other tasks), they have elected representatives in charge, but they can't do taxes. This means that their entire income is based on national taxes and budgets. Combined with the collective bargaining, this gives them zero wiggle room. And then in top of that, healthcare is election material, so the regions get a ton of directives about how to healthcare from Folketinget and regeringen. Anyway, we also have a shortage of cleaning staff in Danish hotels. I heard an interview with the hotel lobbyists or whatever, on orientering på P1, where the journalist suggested a novel solution: maybe raise the pay? And the lobbyist got away with responding that this would lead to the company with the highest wages sucking up all the staff, leading to everyone else raising their wages in a never ending snowball effect. No follow-up. Also no kind of reflection on why all the alleged lazy unemployed masses wouldn't take these physically demanding and low paid jobs.
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Aug 26, 2021 21:22
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It’s my previous area of expertise and my expert opinion is that it’s completely hosed. Unions are also dropping the ball in various ways, but politicians truly realising that they only have to pay lib service to things such as the danish model, and journalists being too stupid and/or too in the pocket of capital, to call them out on it is mega shitbad for the future of the public sector. There are several elements that make it untenable in the long run (which is what the liberal right wants, in a ‘starve the beast’ style attack, so it can privatise). One is that the regions are no power over budget anymore, since some of 20 years ago a massive centralisation of economic power happened, and the ministry of finance is now in entirely in charge of all budgets in all parts of the state (municipalities, regions, state) making the whole ‘negotiating’ stupid, since the nurses are striking against someone (regions) who literally can’t do anything. Another is that the so-called ‘forligsman’ (m/k) has become way more of a political stooge. This is a problem because the institution is supposed to be neutral and come up with actual compromises. This is especially important since that compromise is traditionally the one politicians use as a blueprint when they force the strike to end (which they’re really not supposed to under the vaunted danish model, but happens often enough). That means they have a fig leaf cover to pretend they are being impartial. However, since that person is a right wing stooge, it’s never actually a neutral suggestion they make, it’s always in favour of the employer. In this case almost 100% the same proposal that the employers wanted. This was the same when the childcare workers had their strike and when the the teachers were beaten into the ground. A third thing is that nurses can’t really strike for obvious reasons. If the nurses actually went on strike thousands of people would immediately start dying every day. This means that they have to rely on the goodwill of politicians to accept that the nurses are severely limited in their ability to strike (famously the ‘emergency coverage’ they have put in place for strikes is often better than when it’s just a normal day). Turns out relying on the goodwill of fundamentally flawed assholes who does not give a poo poo about anyone but themselves, isn’t a great position to be in. All that happened in this strike (much as the last) is that the state saved a bunch of money on salaries, the unions were bled out of their strike funds; and the nurses are going to work even faster/harder to make up for it. Sad part is there is no good solution to this as far as I can see. When it breaks, it’s not gonna break into a social workers paradise, it’s just gonna break into capitalism devours everyone even harder as we move even closer to fascism.
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Aug 26, 2021 21:29
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Also Heunicke lied about the massive patient backlog, turns out a whole lot of it is existing backlog due to COVID. Like he was specifically questioned on this and lied.Revelation 2-13 posted:lib service 
SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 22:03
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Using the patients affected by the strike as an excuse to screw over nurses is some real dirtbaggery. If that shithead cared about patients, he'd work to meet the nursing union's demands. I'm sure it will be good for patients to have overworked, underpaid and frustrated nurses. It sounds like some nurses are considering a passive resistance, where they'll do what is required and no more. I'm not sure how continuing the strike illegally would go. Cops beating up nurses probably wouldn't go over well. I wish the nurses (and other public sector workers) would try it though, the negotiation model is clearly broken given that this kind of thing keeps happening.
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Aug 26, 2021 22:49
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Revelation 2-13 posted:lib service This is definitely a thing now
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Aug 26, 2021 23:06
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Esran posted:Using the patients affected by the strike as an excuse to screw over nurses is some real dirtbaggery. If that shithead cared about patients, he'd work to meet the nursing union's demands. I'm sure it will be good for patients to have overworked, underpaid and frustrated nurses. It sounds like some nurses are considering a passive resistance, where they'll do what is required and no more. Something like 10% of teachers quit immediately last time, let's see how well that would go over with nurses during a pandemic. I'd probably have done it when they gave everyone a gingerbread heart as thanks for risking their lives daily.
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Aug 26, 2021 23:14
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Any change for the worse for the patients after this can and will be used as an argument for privatising healthcare. It's gonna be poo poo either way. But yeah, nurses should, at the very least, do exactly what their contract says, including breaks. The larger issue is that actually their pay isn't that bad, it's just that djøffere and suits are paid too much. The real solution involves taxing higher incomes a lot harder, so the actual difference between jobs goes away. I know that won't happen, but it's loving ridiculous that I at age 33 make more than a nurse at 60, with better hours and probably higher job satisfaction.
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Aug 27, 2021 06:18
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