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It was The Force Awakens that gave us the childless monastic Luke who was the priest at a religious school for children that ended in tragedy and if anything The Last Jedi tried to give us an explanation for that which wasn't the blindingly-obvious-but-would-never-be-disney-approved explanation, but unfortunately something will forever seem off about it so perhaps it would have been better to retcon the whole thing and say "Ignore those Force Visions in TFA, they were inaccurate, Luke was a prisoner of the Chiss this whole time" or something stupid like that
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Aug 21, 2021 22:49
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Thrawn to the wolves.
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Aug 21, 2021 22:53
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twistedmentat posted:And instantly regretted that moment of anger so much he exiled himself for 20 years. It happened ~23 years adter Endor (listed as 28ABY, and TFA's 34ABY) so Luke's only been in exile for 6-7 years
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Aug 22, 2021 00:59
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Vinylshadow posted:It happened ~23 years adter Endor (listed as 28ABY, and TFA's 34ABY) so Luke's only been in exile for 6-7 years The point is he’d exiled himself for what he intended to be the rest of his life and decided the Jedi as an institution needed to end with him as penance for his moment of doubt and failure. It wasn’t the black-and-white version Kylo (or TLJ’s detractors) made it out to be.
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Aug 22, 2021 01:39
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I always liked Luke's reaction in the Last Jedi. It felt very real. He'd reconciled with his dad before he passed, but he'd had decades to see the full extent of what he did, and was now working to bring about the same institution that made his dad into the monster he was. Luke also obviously idolized Obi-wan, but he also had to realize that Obi-wan was just as complacent in the creation of Vader as the rest of the Jedi Order. Now he's trying to be not just Obi-wan, but better Obi-wan, with little guidance into what that's even supposed to look like. So he's going about with all that turmoil and pressure inside him, happens to look into Ben's mind, and what do you know, it's the exact same as Vader. Ignoring things like PTSD and just a basic fear response, if you knew all the things Vader did, and you we're trying to be better than Obi-wan, wouldn't you think, even for a second, that it would be better to put personal feelings aside like Obi-wan couldn't, and save the galaxy before it went to poo poo for once? Even for a second? Luke didn't do it, despite everything, but that very human questioning was the basis of both of their falls. And I think that Luke Skywalker can still be a larger than life hero, the greatest Jedi ever, even with that. If anything, I think it makes him an even better one. Man, I loving love the Last Jedi. Hiro Protagonist fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Aug 22, 2021 |
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Aug 22, 2021 02:30
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AndyElusive posted:Sounds like someone is accepting the Kylo Ren version of this story as fact. I thought Luke concurred that, just that he ended up deciding to not actually going to go through with it cuz what the gently caress. But the lit saber was real. twistedmentat posted:And instantly regretted that moment of anger so much he exiled himself for 20 years. Yeah, but the point was it wasn't like Luke just made fun of Ben Solo's haircut he for a moment resolved to kill a child because he was afraid.
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Aug 22, 2021 04:14
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I always liked Luke's reaction in the Last Jedi. It felt very real. He'd reconciled with his dad before he passed, but he'd had decades to see the full extent of what he did, and was now working to bring about the same institution that made his dad into the monster he was. QFT. 100% agree. Luke in TLJ realizes (after an amazing scene with Yoda) that it's not the Jedi order that needs to end. Just what he imagined it to be. It's time "for you to look past a pile of old books." The Jedi as a concept is inherently good. But they'd lost their way, and as you said, Luke idolized Obi-Wan and tried to remake the order exactly as he imagined it to be, warts and all. That was his mistake. His failure. But, the greatest teacher, failure is. So Luke sacrifices himself to save not only the rebellion, but the Jedi order itself. Leaving it to someone who symbolizes what the Jedi order can become when not beholden to the old ways and can focus on the original purpose of the order: to maintain the balance of the force and do good throughout the galaxy. RoS sucks rear end, but Rey igniting that yellow saber at the end, symbolizing the start of something new, was a good touch. I do hope that some day we get to see what kinds of adventures and good deeds Luke was able to accomplish in the 24 years leading up to his failing Ben, but even if we never do, at the end of his life, Luke's sacrifice (in an amazingly badass way no-less) is what directly allowed for ultimate defeat of Palpatine (ugh) and the First Order by both Rey and Ben. He died a hero. 
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Aug 22, 2021 04:19
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Its Rinaldo posted:I thought Luke concurred that, just that he ended up deciding to not actually going to go through with it cuz what the gently caress. But the lit saber was real. Luke's fear was entirely warranted. Ben was insanely powerful and was showing clear signs of slipping to the dark side due to Snoke's direct interference. Killing him would have been wrong since "always in motion the future is" and there was no way to know for sure. But being afraid enough to instinctively ignite his saber isn't in itself wrong. And again, he of course immediately regretted it and felt ashamed. It was a good scene and its placement in the movie after Kylo's explanation is meant to lead us to believe that Luke's version is the more accurate one.
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Aug 22, 2021 04:24
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Nanigans posted:Luke's fear was entirely warranted. Ben was insanely powerful and was showing clear signs of slipping to the dark side due to Snoke's direct interference. The two versions don't contradict each other--Kylo's just doesn't have the parts he was asleep for.
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Aug 22, 2021 04:41
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One aspect of the 'new cannon' that I dislike are the capitol ships apparently having enough energy to power serious anti-grav engines so they can hover or park in the air above a city. It makes for impressive visuals, but its almost as stupid as having the same space based capitol ships being built and/or stored under oceans for the reason that J. J. Abrams thinks a fleet of star destroyers emerging from the ocean looks cool but makes no sense.
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Aug 22, 2021 04:57
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The point is he’d exiled himself for what he intended to be the rest of his life and decided the Jedi as an institution needed to end with him as penance for his moment of doubt and failure. It wasn’t the black-and-white version Kylo (or TLJ’s detractors) made it out to be. He seemed really apologetic about it while dropping sick burns on his nephew in the desert.
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Aug 22, 2021 05:11
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ruddiger posted:He seemed really apologetic about it while dropping sick burns on his nephew in the desert. This is after said nephew became a space fascist. So, y’know. Coulda been a lot more of a dick, honestly. Also, “I failed you, Ben.” He takes full responsibility for what he did up to that point. After that, Ben made his own choices, including murdering his own father in cold blood. A few quips is the least of what Kylo deserved. Nanigans fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Aug 22, 2021 |
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Aug 22, 2021 05:12
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Last Jedi detractors also like to forget how easy it is to give into the dark side. Anakin went from killing Windu to murdering dozens of kids real quick. Why is it so hard to believe that Luke could go from turning on a lightsaber, considering killing ben for a split second, and deciding not to.
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Aug 22, 2021 05:22
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Nanigans posted:Luke's fear was entirely warranted. Ben was insanely powerful and was showing clear signs of slipping to the dark side due to Snoke's direct interference. Sekhmnet posted:One aspect of the 'new cannon' that I dislike are the capitol ships apparently having enough energy to power serious anti-grav engines so they can hover or park in the air above a city. It makes for impressive visuals, but its almost as stupid as having the same space based capitol ships being built and/or stored under oceans for the reason that J. J. Abrams thinks a fleet of star destroyers emerging from the ocean looks cool but makes no sense.
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Aug 22, 2021 05:27
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It's not a huge leap from Cloud City to hovering Star Destroyers either.
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Aug 22, 2021 05:33
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Arquinsiel posted:The comics where Snoke just chills in some garden and Ben visits him whenever are weird as gently caress. It really implies that he's just some dude and Luke doesn't catch even a slight bad vibe from him. I wonder what coruscant would have looked like in the movies if they had kept the eu stuff with with thousands/millions of skyhooks and industrial-sized space elevators. With cloud city I figured their primary resource they mined from the atmosphere, tibanna gas, would have provided the fuel for the giant infrastructure they clearly had(all that crazy poo poo luke/vader fought next to) to generate the power for that stuff at a cheap enough cost to let it exist in low orbit instead in orbit. Its possible I've simply become a cranky old man though, and just wanted to nitpick on something that irked me slightly. I enjoyed all the sequels, cartoons and even the prequals(reading the novelizations of those movies really helped put them into a better frame, much like watching the clone wars cartoon). I've found that it is hard for me to binge watch the cartoons, especially the clone wars, since the constant pew pew sounds of the laser gun fights starts to become pink noise.(also a sign of cranky old-manism)
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Aug 22, 2021 05:45
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Sekhmnet posted:One aspect of the 'new cannon' that I dislike are the capitol ships apparently having enough energy to power serious anti-grav engines so they can hover or park in the air above a city. It makes for impressive visuals, but its almost as stupid as having the same space based capitol ships being built and/or stored under oceans for the reason that J. J. Abrams thinks a fleet of star destroyers emerging from the ocean looks cool but makes no sense. It ain't a Disney thing, though. Attack of the Clones ends with landed Acclimator class ships being loaded with clones, and in Revenge of the Sith we see Obi-Wan board a landed Venator. Not to mention those Trade Federation Lucrehulk cores launching from Geonosis to re-attach to the rest of the ship in orbit. George set the precedent for it in the prequels, the Disney guys are just following it. Star Wars repulsorlift tech is mighty strong, apparently. 
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Aug 22, 2021 06:37
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Except for a couple of bits in the lore, most repulsors seem to use pretty much no power. In The Bad Batch we saw the old Kaminoan cloning facilities still hovering like cloud city did after years, if not decades, of neglect. And speeders only seem to need power to move forward. Having huge-rear end repulsors in star destroyers doesn't make much military sense, but the Empire is all about fear and intimidation. That shot of a destroyer hanging over the city in Rogue One looked amazing. I bet all the locals were just making GBS threads their pants constantly with that thing overhead.
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Aug 22, 2021 12:08
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I got the impression that the Kaminoan cities were on stilts TBH.
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Aug 22, 2021 14:18
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The number one question in pop culture re: time travel is “Would you kill Hitler as a baby if you had the chance?” How is it beyond the pale that Luke would consider killing Space Hitler as a kid?
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Aug 22, 2021 14:26
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Arquinsiel posted:I got the impression that the Kaminoan cities were on stilts TBH. I think they are referring to the abandoned facility from the episode with Cad Bane
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Aug 22, 2021 14:28
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bunnyofdoom posted:I think they are referring to the abandoned facility from the episode with Cad Bane
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Aug 22, 2021 14:33
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Arquinsiel posted:I got the same impression for that one. I'd have to go check to be sure though. A few are on some extremely spindly stilts while some smaller buildings are floating Does it make sense? No Does it look cool? Yes
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Aug 22, 2021 15:48
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It looks to me like the spindles only go down a certain distance, just like Bespin.  Maybe there are stilts all the way down to whatever lies below, but they just anchor the buildings in place. They're certainly not holding them up. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 22, 2021 |
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Aug 22, 2021 18:21
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Oh yeah, those are definitely more airborne than the normal Kaminoan buildings. Guess they are floating.
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Aug 22, 2021 22:52
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NASA has done some think tank work on putting floating cities in the upper atmosphere of Venus. https://sacd.larc.nasa.gov/smab/havoc/
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Aug 23, 2021 00:58
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Sekhmnet posted:One aspect of the 'new cannon' that I dislike are the capitol ships apparently having enough energy to power serious anti-grav engines so they can hover or park in the air above a city. It makes for impressive visuals, but its almost as stupid as having the same space based capitol ships being built and/or stored under oceans for the reason that J. J. Abrams thinks a fleet of star destroyers emerging from the ocean looks cool but makes no sense. Megillah Gorilla posted:Except for a couple of bits in the lore, most repulsors seem to use pretty much no power.
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Aug 23, 2021 01:34
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The United States posted:I mean let's be real, if you have the power to travel faster than light, the power to fight gravity is nothing in comparison. Don’t try to frighten us with your sorcerer’s ways, Lord States.
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Aug 23, 2021 01:45
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The United States posted:It has always been canon that the rebel mon calamari capital ships emerged from the oceans They were literally Mon Cal buildings that were turned into space ships. Do any of the Aftermath Trilogy or other Post ROTJ books talk anything about what Luke was doing after Endor? The most we know is from Battlefront 2 where he was looking for some item that has been suggested to be what lead him to the first Jedi Temple in one of the Emperors Observatories. So I'd not be surprised to some kind of thing that explores what Luke was doing before The Force Awakens. I'd laugh if they did it as an animated series but Mark Hamil isn't Luke, but plays other characters.
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Aug 23, 2021 02:10
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The Mon Calamari ships were supposed to be cruiser liners, but I vaguely remember the new comics doing some weird jank with an old Lee Char and launching their buildings into space for some reason. It was bad, like most of the mainline comic TBH.
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Aug 23, 2021 02:16
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One thing I found disappointing about the Making of the Mandalorian S2 special was it didn't spend any time on the Luke reveal at the end. Well, they've just released another episode all about the S2 finale. I'm only 2 minutes in but I'm already upset that the original version of the script said Plo Koon was the mysterious Jedi who came for Grogu as a misdirect. I want to live in the universe where that actually happened.
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Aug 25, 2021 12:10
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jassa posted:One thing I found disappointing about the Making of the Mandalorian S2 special was it didn't spend any time on the Luke reveal at the end. Well, they've just released another episode all about the S2 finale. I'm watching this now and it's loving hilarious. Filoni is obsessed with Plo Kloon, he's his favourite character. I'm watching Clone Wars along with a podcast, A More Civilized Age, and they dig into trivia to do with the production. Lucas would give him poo poo about it all the time. Apparently there is an art book or something for Clone Wars and the only quote from Lucas in the whole thing is "Dave would put Plo Kloon in every episode if I didn't stop him. Of course that's the name that would get used in the script as a misdirect. EDIT: Holy poo poo! The fake VFX they did! This is amazing! Veotax fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 12:29
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Is that out now? I watched the whole making of the other day (and was extremely envious of everyone who got to work on this - that set looked fun) and was hoping i'd see the episode around the final scene.
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Aug 25, 2021 13:35
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Yeah, I watched the whole thing this morning. It's still shocking to me they were able to keep it a secret for so long, and the explanation on why the deaging on Mark was always a little odd was interesting. Basically, Mark Hamill just has one of those faces where depending on the lighting and the angle, he looks completely different from one second to the next. It's also hilarious that they apparently locked a guy in a room for days to do the deepfake and then decided to not use it and do deaging instead? Or did I misunderstand that? The deepfake stuff looked better... I liked Filoni going through the sequence and how they played with the audience's expectations. First it's an X-Wing, then a lightsaber, then you see it's green, then a gloved hand, then the ultimate reveal, but even then...he's hooded until bam. Mark Hamill. Amazing. Overall, it's a great watch and they're absolutely right that audiences would only trust Luke to take Grogu, so it was the right choice and seeing Mark being excited to play Luke in his prime brought a tear to my eye. Re: A More Civilized Age: George's quote about only people with a diseased mind liking Plo Koon is amazing. But it's true, Plo gets way more spotlight than just about any non core cast member. And of course, his Clone commander is Wolffe and their platoon is nicknamed "Plo's Bros." Amazing. 
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Aug 25, 2021 13:38
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Nanigans posted:It's also hilarious that they apparently locked a guy in a room for days to do the deepfake and then decided to not use it and do deaging instead? Or did I misunderstand that? The deepfake stuff looked better... They looked at three different ways of doing it:
Apparently Lucasfilm hired the guy who did the Deepfake of the scene on youtube though, so they might use that if Luke shows up again in Season 3.
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Aug 25, 2021 17:43
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Haven't had a chance to watch the Gallery yet. My biggest peeve with the Luke appearance is two fold, that he looks exactly the same as his RotJ appearance, both in costume and in face. It basically looks exactly like he went straight from Endor to the bridge of that ship, completely ignoring that like five years have passed. One of the good things about the movies was that every movie brought several fresh new appearances for the characters. Was the same look to hide the seams? Meaning did they want to do something else but more or less forced to do it that way, or did they choose to do it that way from the start.
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Aug 25, 2021 17:50
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People don't really age that significantly from age, what, 23 to 28? And in terms of costume, it was a bit different. For one, the cloak was black instead of brown, and the tunic he wore was a bit longer than in RotJ, plus he had the full suit + tunic + sash + utility belt on. He never had that exact appearance in RotJ, but it was close enough that even casual fans would look and know it's Luke even before the hood comes off. Look at Obi-Wan's outfits from film to film. It's generally small changes like the color of his inner robe, or a new pair of boots. Not drastic changes. Jedi aren't supposed to be big into material possessions, so I can believe Luke would just stick with what works and only change clothes when he has to. I dunno, didn't seem like a big deal to me, plus the all black is a sweet look.
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Aug 25, 2021 17:57
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Teek posted:Was the same look to hide the seams? Meaning did they want to do something else but more or less forced to do it that way, or did they choose to do it that way from the start. They kind of discussed it when talking about the costume - stuff like his robe in the movie actually being brown but people remember it as black. They specifically wanted to hit people's nostalgia to help sell the effect of the character, so deliberately went with a "this is what you remember" version of Luke rather than strictly depicting the reality. It's also kind of cheeky that it happened to line up with the Expanded Universe version of Luke, where they could only legally use promo stills from the movies rather than current photos of the characters, so EU Luke kind of eternally looked like ROTJ anyway.
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Aug 25, 2021 18:51
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Still feels like a bit of a bummer. Having a fresh new Jedi outfit ala Crait Luke would have done wonders for me personally to sell that yeah this is Luke. His Crait look aka circa 6-7ish years before TFA is a great Jedi formal look, with updated elements and colors. His undershirt being white really makes the Crait look pop. If Luke comes back again, maybe that's something they'll feel more comfortable doing.
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Aug 25, 2021 19:23
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All Jedi wear robes appropriate for a dry, sandy environment.
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Aug 25, 2021 19:28
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