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Instead of ‘p*dophile’ please use the mod-preferred term ‘Minor-Attracted Person’
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Aug 23, 2021 17:04
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I definitely see where you’re coming from and where the rule can use some work to avoid that. Do I have a good solution right now, no. I would say “report it so they can get bopped instead”, but that whole blowup on Saturday night happened in the span of an hour and a half or so, which is sometimes too fast to get a mod in there if they’re not reading the thread. here's another rabbit hole: were no mods reading the thread before, when the posts that we all agreed were objectionable were made? there's not a good implication to be made either way, whether they were or weren't. I'm not planning on skimming the thread for misbehavior lol
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Aug 23, 2021 17:06
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Aug 23, 2021 17:07
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grieving for Gandalf posted:here's another rabbit hole: were no mods reading the thread before, when the posts that we all agreed were objectionable were made? there's not a good implication to be made either way, whether they were or weren't. I'm not planning on skimming the thread for misbehavior lol I didn’t mean in the sense of “unless mods read the thread regularly”, I meant in the sense of “are reading it when the bad poo poo is going down”. I read this thread a lot for example, but it’s not like I’m on the forums all the time. I was driving home from work when that whole thing went down. Got home and saw it had 50 posts and just said “oh drat it not again” to myself.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:09
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Sad Billionaire posted:Instead of ‘p*dophile’ please use the mod-preferred term ‘Minor-Attracted Person’ PoC (pursuer of children)
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Aug 23, 2021 17:10
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Ugly In The Morning posted:but it’s not like I’m on the forums all the time. Problematic
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Aug 23, 2021 17:12
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You were right. Typically when there’s a derail like that in PYF we try to just do a mod warning to head it off before the button gets hit. In the future, that may change if it’s a particularly gross derail but that’s not a policy I’m going to slap down unilaterally without discussing it with Pastry and JD first. In this case though, I’ll admit going back and hitting buttons probably would have stopped the second derail.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:13
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Mods must maintain the neuralink at all times in order to banish the feet-worshippers 
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Aug 23, 2021 17:14
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You know what's weird? In my almost 40 years of living on this planet I've never had to explain to someone why what I liked was technically not child porn. It's just never come up, and I think if it needs the explanation we're probably better off without it.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:16
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i resent being made to acknowledge that vtubers exist the concept of them is bad enough without knowing that the characters apparently have lore attached
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Aug 23, 2021 17:17
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Oxxidation posted:i resent being made to acknowledge that vtubers exist Same.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:23
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+1 to the “was happier in a small but measurable way not knowing vtubers exist” crew.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:24
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the vtuber thread needs to be used as a non-negotiable containment zone for vtuber posting so i stop having to scroll past enormous screeds about the newest bland anime av with a highly exaggerated voice e: also so i dont have to see weak defenses that specifically piss me off lol
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Aug 23, 2021 17:25
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The Kins posted:Everyone's PMs are open until they get sent some Actually Serious Stuff, at which point it's like, oh, I was too busy every day for three months to read it.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:29
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The Kins posted:Everyone's PMs are open until they get sent some Actually Serious Stuff, at which point it's like, oh, I was too busy every day for three months to read it. Or they read it, say it’s no big deal and then later tell everyone they missed the message lol Incidentally, I no longer PM admins edit: actually I pm’d astral about something dumb Slanderer has a new favorite as of 17:32 on Aug 23, 2021 |
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Aug 23, 2021 17:30
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if you consider being accused of being a pedophile to be really serious because people really hate pedophiles, how do you imagine people feel about people who punish calling out sexualization of children more harshly than the actual offenders?
Hodgepodge has a new favorite as of 17:47 on Aug 23, 2021 |
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Aug 23, 2021 17:36
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Robobot posted:I've never had to explain to someone why what I liked was technically not child porn.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:37
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Sad Billionaire posted:Instead of ‘p*dophile’ please use the mod-preferred term ‘Minor-Attracted Person’ Mod-Approved Poster
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Aug 23, 2021 17:42
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bloom posted:Mod-Approved Poster
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Aug 23, 2021 17:44
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This and other threads keep trying to make me learn what a vtuber actually is and I categorically refuse. I think "give the system (reports, PMing a mod, etc) a chance to work" is a reasonable request, but "the system has never actually worked" is also a reasonable (or at least reasonably accurate) response, and it's up to the staff side to solve that one. It certainly hasn't been solved yet. There are enough recent events that have erred far enough on the side of "someone defended stuff that is either cartoon child porn or may as well be" that doesn't make someone an actual pedophile (and I think it's fair to say "don't call them that" if they aren't literally that) but also doesn't make them someone I care to have around on the site, in or out of a position of authority. There are also people using all of this as an excuse to be assholes with a veneer of righteousness (and it can be quite hard to tell these people apart from the genuinely righteously angry). The perception is that these people are being squashed indiscriminately and with prejudice (along with the genuinely angry) while the actual problem people are only being grudgingly addressed, which only fuels the fire (and creates more opportunity for trollish assholes to thrive).
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Aug 23, 2021 17:45
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Also, and I know UitM didn't mean it this way, that it feels very weird that mods always want serious problems to be brought to them in a private and unverifiable way instead of publicly so there can be accountability.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:51
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A vtuber is when strong bad plays video games.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:54
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Who What Now posted:Also, and I know UitM didn't mean it this way, that it feels very weird that mods always want serious problems to be brought to them in a private and unverifiable way instead of publicly so there can be accountability. please cover this six year old's rear end: um big yikes please help me cover my rear end: official forums policy
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Aug 23, 2021 17:54
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Who What Now posted:Also, and I know UitM didn't mean it this way, that it feels very weird that mods always want serious problems to be brought to them in a private and unverifiable way instead of publicly so there can be accountability. Being able to verifiably quote PMs would be good tbh. But we're like a year removed from load-bearing slurs. This is not a website with the world's greatest codebase.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:57
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Who What Now posted:Also, and I know UitM didn't mean it this way, that it feels very weird that mods always want serious problems to be brought to them in a private and unverifiable way instead of publicly so there can be accountability. The big reason I would want it to be in PM form , outside of site policy, is because of the risks involved for all parties on some of this stuff. 1)if the guy with receipts has some offsite stuff that ends up being a completely different person than the SA poster, that fucks over the accusee if it just gets dumped in public with no verification. 2)If the accuser is in a place with plaintiff-favoring libel laws, now the accuser can get completely and unexpectedly hosed. See: the ZakS/Ettin thing 3)if there’s personal information in the receipts, now we have a doxxing situation on our hands and that opens a whole hell of a can of worms. SA is small now but that doesn’t completely get rid of the risk of stuff like SWATing, which can get even completely uninvolved people hurt/killed.
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Aug 23, 2021 17:57
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docbeard posted:This and other threads keep trying to make me learn what a vtuber actually is and I categorically refuse. Yup, and all this is why repeated angry threads are the go to in QCS, because they actually *work*. Messaging mods/admins rarely does anything other than a 'we are discussing this issue' boilerplate. Plus QCS threads can be hilarious.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:02
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Maybe people would be more willing to PM stuff instead of posting it publicly if there was a history of stuff that was PMed actually being acted upon. Repeatedly rephrasing the same points doesn't really change recent history, or people's memory of it.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:02
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Jeffery just decide if vtubers/anime as a concept is too infested with pedophilia to allow on the site, then one side of that can shut up or post goatse or whatnot.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:03
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So don’t just PM. I can’t speak for the rest of the mods and admins but I would have no problem with someone making a QCS thread that was “I just PMed mod Ugly In The Morning regarding serious misconduct by a forums user” so that way 1)People know there was a PM 2)When I was contacted about it 3)I am able to give updates regarding what information I’m able to publicly share.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:05
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quote:
The what now?
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Aug 23, 2021 18:06
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That doesn't actually give any accountability because what's happened before is mods say "the PM was reviewed and discussed in the mod forum" and just leave it at that.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:07
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Frank Frank posted:The what now? There was a Traditional Games mod who got completely hosed over in a lawsuit regarding something he said about a game designer who was a well known piece of poo poo IRL. The jurisdiction the mod was in (Australia, I think?) is one of the places where you can easily lose a libel suit and I think Ettin ended up out of close to six figures.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:08
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If I ever come into contact with something along those lines my plan is to PM it and then if it gets memory holed or ignored or whatever for two weeks i’m just gonna post it at that point and eat a ban or whatever
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Aug 23, 2021 18:09
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Frank Frank posted:The what now? Ettin was a mod of traditional games on who talked about this. Ettin has the misfortune of living in Canada where something being true doesn't protect you from libel lawsuits over it. So Zak S was able to sue Ettin into making a big public retraction, because Canadian libel laws exist to defend rapists and pedophiles.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:10
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the main issue is that if the mods get pm'd about something, discuss it in the mod forum, and decide not to take action, it often... stays at that. like they just dont say anything to anyone. like regardless of your opinions on their mod choices the mods deciding not to take action on something is an option they have and should be allowed to use, the issue is that they dont communicate that theyve made a choice. so it comes across like PMs are being stonewalled even when they were taken into consideration.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:10
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Frank Frank posted:The what now? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3919633&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 this thread will eventually i think unfurl into context. gently caress zack s
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Aug 23, 2021 18:11
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"Not listening to me" is not the same thing as "not agreeing with me"; I'm not sure why so many ostensible adults have a problem with this distinction. Frequently, things get discussed, sometimes at length, and the decision made is no action or different action from the one requested. A mod failing to respond to a PM or QCS thread is not the same thing is responding while disagreeing with the argument being made.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:13
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fool of sound posted:"Not listening to me" is not the same thing as "not agreeing with me"; I'm not sure why so many ostensible adults have a problem with this distinction. Frequently, things get discussed, sometimes at length, and the decision made is no action or different action from the one requested. A mod failing to respond to a PM or QCS thread is not the same thing is responding while disagreeing with the argument being made.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:15
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Yes, that's exactly what we're saying. The problem isn't the lack of communication and transparency at all, we just don't like the poor oppressed mods!
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Aug 23, 2021 18:15
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The Kins posted:I'm explicitly referring to the Taintrunner situation, where the admin the PM was sent to openly admitted to not reading it, after the dirty laundry was all aired publicly. Oh yeah that was genuinely a problem, no argument there.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:16
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