RoboChrist 9000 posted:

benevolent dictatorship is arguably the best and ideal form of government

ChubbyChecker posted:

it's not

Narsham posted:

I made a note to post in the thread about Vimes and the Summoning Dark when I reread Snuff and I am finally doing that.

In my hardback edition, page 120: Stinky the Goblin is clinging to Vimes and asking for just ice:
"Not panicking now, the goblin pointed a claw at Vimes's left wrist, looked him in the face, and said 'Just ice?'"

Goblins live in the dark, of course, and Stinky pointed to the Summoning Dark scar. He's not just asking Vimes for justice here.

Page 121:
"And again Vimes remembered the darkness and the thirst for vengeance, in fact vengeance itself made sapient and hungry [ie. the Summoning Dark]. And the litter bugger had touched him on that arm. It all came back, and he wished that it hadn't, because while all coppers must have a bit of villain in them, no copper should walk around with a piece of demon as a tattoo."

So the goblin first invokes the Summoning Dark, and, called, it returns to Vimes and is with him later when he walks into the darkness. That's perfectly consistent with the ending of Thud! and it makes sense that the Dark comes to think of Vimes as a sort of partner following their encounter in that story.

Narsham posted:

I made a note to post in the thread about Vimes and the Summoning Dark when I reread Snuff and I am finally doing that.

In my hardback edition, page 120: Stinky the Goblin is clinging to Vimes and asking for just ice:
"Not panicking now, the goblin pointed a claw at Vimes's left wrist, looked him in the face, and said 'Just ice?'"

Goblins live in the dark, of course, and Stinky pointed to the Summoning Dark scar. He's not just asking Vimes for justice here.

Page 121:
"And again Vimes remembered the darkness and the thirst for vengeance, in fact vengeance itself made sapient and hungry [ie. the Summoning Dark]. And the litter bugger had touched him on that arm. It all came back, and he wished that it hadn't, because while all coppers must have a bit of villain in them, no copper should walk around with a piece of demon as a tattoo."

So the goblin first invokes the Summoning Dark, and, called, it returns to Vimes and is with him later when he walks into the darkness. That's perfectly consistent with the ending of Thud! and it makes sense that the Dark comes to think of Vimes as a sort of partner following their encounter in that story.

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

The only thing I feel like Pterry maybe drops the ball a bit with is that there could probably be a bit more characters of color in the AM stories, given how cosmopolitan that setting is supposed to be. It would be nice if we had a major Watch character who was Klatchian or something.

A Moose posted:

I don't know if he counts as a major character, but I think its mentioned that Visit (and most Omnians) are darker than the average city denizen. But yeah, other than that, most main characters are white. Or at least assumed to be, a lot of characters' race isn't outright stated. We know Carrot has bright orange hair which means he's probably white. Angua is described as having blonde hair, and also being from Uberwald which is basically eastern europe. Dwarves' skin colors aren't usually mentioned though. They're probably pretty pale since they live mostly under ground. Aside from that, anyone could be any race really.

Imagined posted:

There's Twoflower. He's whatever the Discworld analog of asian is, isn't he? Let's not mention that he's a tourist stereotypically obsessed with taking photos...

Imagined posted:

There's Twoflower. He's whatever the Discworld analog of asian is, isn't he? Let's not mention that he's a tourist stereotypically obsessed with taking photos... it was an early novel, ok.

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

tbh I don't think Discworld does a great job with race, mainly because the early books are lampooning fantasy stories that were often full of orientalist tropes, and the later books are more concerned with fantasy analogies of race.

Terry Pratchett posted:

The Vimes in the mirror said, You know he doesn't just want to kill you. That wouldn't be good enough for a bastard like that, not by a long way. He wants to destroy you and will try everything until he does.
"I know," said Vimes, and added, "You're not a demon, are you?" [Ie. Not the Summoning Dark]
"Absolutely not," said his mirror image. "I might be made up of your subconscious mind and a momentary case of muesli poisoning occasioned by a fermenting raisin. Watch where you walk, commander. Watch everywhere." And then it was gone.
Vimes stepped away from the mirror and turned around slowly. It must have been my face, he said to himself, otherwise it would have been the other way round, wouldn't it?

ChubbyChecker posted:

yeah, but it wasn't only the early books, interesting times also has some of that stuff

citybeatnik posted:

I always read Rincewind's misadventures being less about poking fun at fantasy tropes (which is certainly there) and more about using a very inempt wizzard who also happens to be a very skilled runner to give broad strokes for some new setting that would get touched on later.

Chamberk posted:

I mean, the main point (or at least the subplot) of most Watch/Ankh-Morpork books is overcoming prejudice towards previously discriminated species- from Angua to Detritus to Reg Shoe. He doesn't really do a ton of stuff with color in those books, but the message usually comes through loud and clear.

ulmont posted:

This may be true from books 3 on, but The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic are both straight fantasy parody.

KellHound posted:

While interesting times is more political then others, it's still based on western depictions of east asian countries.

Dave Syndrome posted:

Doesn't the book have an warlord who is more or less a reverse weeaboo?

Doctor Jeep posted:

I don't think I've read a single Discworld book about wizards and their appearances in the rest of the series did nothing to change my mind.

Dave Syndrome posted:

Doesn't the book have an warlord who is more or less a reverse weeaboo?

Feliday Melody posted:

I remember one Rincewind book where he goes to fantasy Australia.

And I think..... Deaths assistant? reads up a list of animals that are dangerous on the continent. And Death asks him to just list the things that aren't dangerous and the answer was something like "a few of the sheep I guess"

and I remember thinking that a better answer would have been to make a reference to Rincewind since he was on the continent at that very moment. To emphasize how dangerous the continent was in contrast to him.

quote:

Death held out a hand. I WANT, he said, A BOOK ABOUT THE DANGEROUS CREATURES OF FOURECKS-

Albert looked up and dived for cover, receiving only mild bruising because he had the foresight to curl into a ball.

After a while Death, his voice a little muffled, said: ALBERT, I WOULD BE SO GRATEFUL IF YOU COULD GIVE ME A HAND HERE.

Albert scrambled up and pulled at some of the huge volumes, finally dislodging enough of them for his master to clamber free.

HMM... Death picked up a book at random and read the cover. "DANGEROUS MAMMALS, REPTILES, AMPHIBIANS, BIRDS, FISH, JELLYFISH, INSECTS, SPIDERS, CRUSTACEANS, GRASSES, TREES, MOSSES, AND LICHENS OF TERROR INCOGNITA, " he read. His gaze moved down the spine. VOLUME 29C, he added. OH. PART THREE, I SEE.

He glanced up at the listening shelves. POSSIBLY IT WOULD BE SIMPLER IF I ASKED FOR A LIST OF THE HARMLESS CREATURES OF THE AFORESAID CONTINENT?

They waited.

IT WOULD APPEAR THAT-

"No, wait master. Here it comes."

Albert pointed to something white zigzagging lazily through the air. Finally Death reached up an caught the single sheet of paper.

He read it carefully and then turned it over briefly just in case anything was written on the other side.

"May I?" said Albert. Death handed him the paper.

"'Some of the sheep, '" Albert read aloud. "Oh, well. Maybe a week at the seaside'd be better, then."

WHAT AN INTRIGUING PLACE, said Death. SADDLE UP THE HORSE, ALBERT. I FEEL SURE I'M GOING TO BE NEEDED.

thetoughestbean posted:

Rincewind is surprisingly dangerous. He ran around for years with a creation spell in his head and went to fight the creatures of the Dungeon Dimension with a brick in a sock. He’s one of the few people to survive proximity to Cohen the Barbarian

The_Doctor posted:

quote:

He wanted to say: how could you be so nice and yet so dumb? The best thing you could do with the peasents was to leave them alone. Let them get on with it. When people who can read and write start fighting for those who can't, you just end up with another kind of stupidity. If you want to help them, build a big library or something somewhere and leave the door open.

quote:

"I know about people who talk about suffering for the common good. It's never bloody them! When you hear a man shouting "Forward, brave comrades!" you'll see he's the one behind the bloody big rock and the one wearing the only really arrow-proof helmet!"

Imagined posted:

I'm reading Interesting Times for the first time right now and by Pratchett standards it feels like there is some pretty cringy stuff in there. Some of it is the orientalism you'd expect, but surprising things that jumped out at me were the centrist boomer stuff about how it's pointless to try to change the system and anyone trying to lead a revolution is just out for their own glory, etc.

It is funny, though. The entire bit where the wizards discuss teleporting Rincewind to the Counterweight Continent while he tries futilely to object is so loving funny.

Imagined posted:

I'm reading Interesting Times for the first time right now and by Pratchett standards it feels like there is some pretty cringy stuff in there. Some of it is the orientalism you'd expect, but surprising things that jumped out at me were the centrist boomer stuff about how it's pointless to try to change the system and anyone trying to lead a revolution is just out for their own glory, etc.