|
Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Laser |
|
60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
|
34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
|
49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
|
26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
|
39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
|
68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
|
48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
|
42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
|
41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
|
Veloxyll posted:And we're back to China eating poo poo at the start of a mission! Yeah, this is definitely something unique to Generals. Other games' campaigns have had simultaneous action with events causing things to happen in the other, definitely, but I'm pretty sure Generals is the only one where the campaigns all explicitly happen one after the other. This is, I think, partially how Generals compensates for its individual campaigns being relatively short. Having only seven missions each looks less drastic when all twenty-one missions string together as a single narrative! And it's not a terrible idea whatsoever, though it can't fix the problem that you'll be wanting more game to play. It's debatable to me as to whether the GLA or China have the better campaign, in terms of being memorable. Without getting too into detail as to what's to come, the GLA and China campaigns both feature a lot of really strong individual set pieces and voice performances (for instance, the bridge destruction from China 2 is a really striking scene between its voice acting and the sheer variety of ways in which that bridge collapses, combined with all the unique map designs and objects in that mission). I tend to lean China, but then I just never really liked the GLA -- besides being incredibly obviously the villains of the game, I just struggle with their playstyle. I'd also argue that China and the GLA are definitely the factions with the most heart. All of their units have distinct, unique voice actors with distinct personalities -- this is definitely the most true of the GLA, as we'll see, but overall both China and the GLA are highly quotable. I still hear the Gatling Tank in my head when I shift gears on my bike, for instance, and a GLA unit we'll meet in the next mission has what I consider the definitive scrap-pickup line.
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 01:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
Redeye Flight posted:I'd also argue that China and the GLA are definitely the factions with the most heart. All of their units have distinct, unique voice actors with distinct personalities -- this is definitely the most true of the GLA, as we'll see, but overall both China and the GLA are highly quotable. I still hear the Gatling Tank in my head when I shift gears on my bike, for instance, and a GLA unit we'll meet in the next mission has what I consider the definitive scrap-pickup line. https://vocaroo.com/1aZuj0obapPJ I found this and have been waiting to post it. Pretty sure it's the Technical's crush.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 01:28
|
|
|
How do you force the vehicles to crush infantry anyway? If you right click they just do their regular attack.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 01:30
|
|
|
Space Kablooey posted:How do you force the vehicles to crush infantry anyway? If you right click they just do their regular attack. Pretty sure its Alt+Right Click.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
To me it just creates waypoints...
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 01:36
|
|
|
Space Kablooey posted:To me it just creates waypoints... Shift+Click then? Its absolutely one of the ctrl/alt/shift buttons + click Edit: Apparently all crush lines are cut content... I could've sworn it was possible to trigger them... quote:Force Move Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Aug 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 01:41
|
|
|
I found the GLA hard to play too. Aren't they basically the micromanagement heavy faction? Having to gather scrap is one thing, but also the fragility of their units means you have to baby them too. Versus the Chinese where you can just go around in a big deathball and things will usually work out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
I generally found the GLA pretty easy to play because they let you sidestep a lot of the up-front actual fighting of enemies. Also, one thing that I found somewhat unique about C&C Generals is that I enjoyed all the factions. In most games there's one or more factions that I just consider tedious and unfun to play, too gimmicky or not gimmicky enough or underpowered or whatever. But in Generals, I had fun with all three, which I take as an accomplishment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:11
|
|
|
Fangz posted:I found the GLA hard to play too. Aren't they basically the micromanagement heavy faction? Having to gather scrap is one thing, but also the fragility of their units means you have to baby them too. Versus the Chinese where you can just go around in a big deathball and things will usually work out. I'm not sure if I mention this in any of the future videos, but, honestly, there's something to be said about how the different campaigns (and thus factions) force the player to adapt to the different tactics and play archetypes. If the Chinese is the deathball and rushes, the GLA are outright stated as your skirmishing, sneaky, underhanded group. I'm not sure which group I'd give the micromanagement title to. There's a lot of units that don't have auto-casting abilities, etc. Definitely a toss-up between GLA and USA.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:16
|
|
|
Perhaps I'm a bit biased from seeing so much professional play (mostly of Zero Hour, but the same rules mostly apply), but honestly, micromanagement is a big part of both China and GLA. You will never be left alone by a good player long enough for a China player to build up a big mass of Overlords. And even blobs of Overlords can be melted pretty fast against a competent human's defenses. China players succeed by getting Dragon Tanks behind enemy lines early on in the game, Battlemasters that get in enemy supply lines, using infantry effectively, striking fast-moving vehicles and Workers with MiGs. The nice thing about good China play is that you'll usually see a wide variety of units used, since China has a lot of options. You'll rarely see big blobs of armor in serious play. Gatling Tanks are also good because most of what you'll fight from the GLA are lightly armored, which means Gatling Tanks, especially Chain Gun Gats, do tons of damage against them. GLA will get play by basically being a cockroach; placing down Tunnels everywhere, using the free RPG Troopers you get from those tunnels to garrison buildings and fend off armor as much as they can, using Technicals to move Workers and infantry in general around. A good GLA player will never let you feel safe, because even a small outpost can become a huge problem, especially with being able to move around large amounts of armor instantly with Tunnel Networks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:36
|
|
|
Sylphid posted:Perhaps I'm a bit biased from seeing so much professional play (mostly of Zero Hour, but the same rules mostly apply), but honestly, micromanagement is a big part of both China and GLA. I tried watching “high level professional multiplayer” of Zero Hour back when I was more into this game and knew I was poo poo at any multiplayer besides a comp stomp, and I was so confused most of the time. People build 2 or 3 dozers then sell their Command Center for the money, and don’t rebuild it for radar or to spend their general points until they’re at least at level 3? When did that become the optimal strategy?
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:43
|
|
|
GhostStalker posted:I tried watching “high level professional multiplayer” of Zero Hour back when I was more into this game and knew I was poo poo at any multiplayer besides a comp stomp, and I was so confused most of the time. People build 2 or 3 dozers then sell their Command Center for the money, and don’t rebuild it for radar or to spend their general points until they’re at least at level 3? When did that become the optimal strategy? For a very long time (most people will only build a second dozer). That was my preferred strategy back when I played Zero Hour online back in like 2005. Good players won't need the radar until later and the vast majority of games are decided within the first 15 minutes or so. If you don't have that extra 1000 bucks, that slows your first Supply Truck, your first Dragon Tank, your first MiG, or a handful of more Workers to spread over the map. And while you've got your big fancy eyesore of a Command Center sitting there, your enemy has an army in your face because they expanded faster and had units on the ground faster than you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:48
|
|
|
I quickly came to the realization that I would never be the pwnerer, and I find I live(d) a more fulfilling life because of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:51
|
|
|
i just installed the battletech mod and rolled over people with mechs 
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 02:58
|
|
|
Radio Free Kobold posted:i just installed the battletech mod and rolled over people with mechs Same but with a new tech mod that let me build a Chinese Battleship shooting napalm shells on top of my Overlord swarm. As I said before, I was poo poo at multiplayer and I knew it because I preferred to turtle behind a wall of bunkers and gatlings and a blob of Hackers making me money before rolling over with a stack of Overlords and never quite got the hang of timing scouts and probing attacks with anything other than MiGs, so all I played were comp stomps. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Aug 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 03:02
|
|
|
GhostStalker posted:As I said before, I was poo poo at multiplayer and I knew it because I preferred to turtle behind a wall of bunkers and gatlings and a blob of Hackers making me money before rolling over with a stack of Overlords and never quite got the hang of timing scouts and probing attacks with anything other than MiGs, so all I played were comp stomps. Same here. In general in rts games I would always love to build a nice looking very well defended base, and then push out with a deathball, save when playing GLA, when I would actually try to make use of their Tunnel Networks for shenanigan's. Their builder unit also doubling as a resource collector is something that is also very unique for a C&C game, and further lets you do some silly stuff playing as the GLA.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 03:14
|
|
|
Oh yeah, if you ever the chance, though I don't know if single-player gives you very many chances to, try and get the Worker to clear mines. He has some amazing lines for that. Though, as you said, the Worker has great lines in general.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 03:24
|
|
|
When all your problems are beside rivers, every dam looks like a solution.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 06:24
|
|
|
Redeye Flight posted:Yeah, this is definitely something unique to Generals. Other games' campaigns have had simultaneous action with events causing things to happen in the other, definitely, but I'm pretty sure Generals is the only one where the campaigns all explicitly happen one after the other. "Modern" Blizzard did that with StarCraft and WarCraft 3. Universe at War: Earth Assault by Petroglyph was another. It's not unique, but it's a first for this series, for sure. E: Jobbo_Fett posted:WEAPON: Type 69 RPG  Seriously- oh, it's literally called that.
THE BAR fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Aug 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 07:30
|
|
|
THE BAR posted:"Modern" Blizzard did that with StarCraft and WarCraft 3. Universe at War: Earth Assault by Petroglyph was another. It's not unique, but it's a first for this series, for sure. Yeah, I meant for Command and Conquer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 08:10
|
|
|
Redeye Flight posted:Yeah, I meant for Command and Conquer. Gah, my bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 08:22
|
|
|
THE BAR posted:"Modern" Blizzard did that with StarCraft and WarCraft 3. Universe at War: Earth Assault by Petroglyph was another. It's not unique, but it's a first for this series, for sure. I was ready to call it the ubiquitous RPG-7 until I checked the wiki listing which stated otherwise 
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 11:10
|
|
|
EA Pacific's art department really liked vintage tanks for this game. After the 50's inspired Battlemaster and the series staple WW2-era superheavy paper design with the Overlord, the GLA here shows up with an amalgamation of every every 30's light tank around. To the GLA's credit, putting a big missile launcher on the roof is exactly how you'd want to modernize a vehicle like that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
Balancing out having the M1 Abrams in WW2
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 14:53
|
|
|
I kind of feel that the technical is in this game more because they're an iconic part of warfare among irregular forces in the Middle East than because of any gameplay niche. Like how I think about Nod's buggies in the Tiberium games, they're kind of iconic, and theoretically good harassment units, but wind up being too slow to zoom past defenses while being too fragile to absorb much return fire, so they're just kind of lost. The troop transport capability sounds good, but GLA has other, better ways of getting infantry where they need it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
I like the military aftermarket vibe of GLA vehicles but I wish the Scorpion Tanks had multiple models that were randomized at construction to reflect they're just whatever armor they could get their hands on. I know models change (some vehicles more than others as we will see) with scrap pick up for many of their vehicles and I think technicals in particular have a few models of truck that they can be, wish these tanks did too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I kind of feel that the technical is in this game more because they're an iconic part of warfare among irregular forces in the Middle East than because of any gameplay niche. Like how I think about Nod's buggies in the Tiberium games, they're kind of iconic, and theoretically good harassment units, but wind up being too slow to zoom past defenses while being too fragile to absorb much return fire, so they're just kind of lost. I think it's best to look at the three factions in Generals as another take on the "high-tech air force vs. brute force mass-produced armor vs. the hit-and-run skirmishers" from Westwood's old Dune games, with the Americans as House Atredies, the Chinese as House Harkonnen, and the GLA as House Ordos. Of course, the advances in technology and game design mean the design of these factions can be specialized and individuated even more than they were in the Dune games. Marshal Radisic fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Aug 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 23:20
|
|
|
GLA 02: Pillage the Village https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GpCU8zod8U GLA 02: Pillage the Village  With the Chinese forces delayed, the Global Liberation Army can spend this time building up its strength. Start by stealing money and supplies being distributed to the civilians in the region of Almaty, and do not hesitate to strike against our foes should they display any signs of weakness!   Out on the eastern side of Kazakhstan, while the enemy surely does not expect us to be here.  Location: Almaty, Kazakhstan Objective: Accumulate 40,000 credits. Author's note: An alright mission, I'm glad the "Map Expansion" still exists. Its a fun mechanic.   Quad Cannon RANGE: Medium-Long ARMOR: Humvee WEAPON: ZSU-23-4 (Allegedly) COST: 700 Acquired through the Arms Dealer, these Soviet-era weapons can protect GLA units from airborne attack. Equipped with four heavy machine guns, the Quad Cannon can target both air and ground units. Author's Note: A good case study on how a good unit is made great thanks to its voice actor. There's NEVER a reason not to make Quad Cannons.  Marauder Tank RANGE: Medium ARMOR: Tank WEAPON: 120mm Cannon(?) COST: 800 Acquired via the Arms Dealer, these tanks have improved range and defensive capabilities over the Scorpion. Author's Note: I've never really been impressed by the Marauder Tank. I doubt I would the same opinion if Marauder Tanks always had their final salvage state...  Command Center ARMOR: Structure (Tough) COST: 2000 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Unlocks Base Building GLA recruits and trains its workers at the Command Center. Author's Note: Pretty standard, save for the fact that GLA's radar does not rely on the Command Center.  Supply Stash ARMOR: Structure COST: 1500 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Resource drop-off point, Trains Workers The GLA stores its resources in one or more Supply Stashes. When created, the Supply Stash is manned by a Worker, who immediately begins gathering supplies. Author's Note: The GLA Supply Stash works just like the other factions, save for the fact that GLA can create Workers (allowing for base building) from them.  Barracks ARMOR: Structure COST: 1000 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Trains Infantry All GLA infantry including the Rebel, Terrorist, and RPG Trooper, are trained in the Barracks. Author's Note: Exactly the same as the USA and Chinese Barracks.  Arms Dealer ARMOR: Structure COST: 2000 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Produces Vehicles When the GLA needs vehicles, it comes here. The local Arms Dealer can acquire or build fine weapons from all over the world. Author's Note: Exactly the same as the USA and Chinese War Factory.  Tunnel Network ARMOR: Structure COST: 800 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Defensive Structure, Underground Transit Network The Tunnel Network can put GLA fighters in the enemy camp very early in the battle. You can build multiple entrances to the Tunnel Network, which can hold up to ten units at a time. Each unit can be directed to a different exit. Manned by two RPG Troopers and a gun turret. Author's Note: Offering permanent anti-infantry and temporary anti-vehicle defense, the Tunnel Network offers a lot of bang for its buck. The ability to act as a Nydus Worm, sans the need to babysit it is great! I don't ever truly take advantage of its powers.  Demo Trap ARMOR: Structure COST: 400 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Booby Trap These hidden bombs can provide excellent perimeter and choke point security. A Demo Trap can be activated in either of two modes: Proximity Detection or Manual Control. Author's Note: You can get an amazing return on your investment if the AI can be tricked into running into these.   Technical Training FACTION: GLA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 1 PURPOSE: Promotes all Technicals upon production All Technicals emerge from the Arms Dealer as Veterans. Author's Note: Hard to justify this over even the Marauder Tank.  Marauder Tank FACTION: GLA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 1 PURPOSE: Unlocks Marauder Tank production. Ability to build the Marauder Tank at the Arms Dealer. Author's Note: Oh, hey. Uhhh... you're better than Technicals, so there's that. Aftermath: With renewed cash reserves, the GLA can start to focus on taking the fight to the Chinese, or potentially the Americans!
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 00:09
|
|
|
I never found marauders all that exciting either. They basically seem to exist to give you the option of a beefy Frontline fighter that can hold the line for your glass cannons, but the faction is built such that hit and run/an overwhelming first strike will usually be preferred to tying your more maneuverable units into a fight.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
I like marauders because sometimes you just need to blow up a bunch of buildings, and marauders are the GLA's best damage option for that kind of work unless you like disposable bomb trucks. I use them in the generals challenge maps in particular.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 00:41
|
|
|
This mission is a big "the war on terror does not work that way". Terrorist groups would not be rampaging through defenseless villages burning down houses and robbing aid convoys. More likely, they'd send a few guys to shakedown the villagers after the aid had arrived, or even have supporters among the villagers pass them resources of their own will. This mission is cartoon villainy nonsense. Or, said village's own militia would be shooting back at them. That's another big issue with generals. Everyone in central asia is a defenceless civilian or part of the global terrorist army. That's not how this works. There's realistically a bunch of factions and warlords with varying levels of scumbaggery and hostility to the foreign intervention.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 00:47
|
|
|
This is a strange mission to introduce Marauders in, since they can't take advantage of their biggest gimmick, and why you'd ever really burn a Generals Point on them. The main gimmick is that a double-scrapped Marauder has, I think, the highest DPS in the game, even surpassing an Overlord (not sure if that Overlord was upgraded with Uranium Shells). A Heroic, Double Scrapped Marauder just completely annihilates most every armored thing in the game. It's pretty sick. Otherwise, yeah, they're not too special. Most Marauders won't live long enough to see that admittedly glorious day, and all of the GLA's armored needs are served by faster, cheaper units that don't require a Generals Point to acquire them. If you're fighting pitched battles against Chinese or American armored divisions as GLA, which is the only other reason you'd use Marauders, to take advantage of their beefier armor, you're probably doing something wrong, which is why the good ol' Marauder doesn't see much action.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 02:20
|
|
|
mr_stibbons posted:This mission is a big "the war on terror does not work that way". Terrorist groups would not be rampaging through defenseless villages burning down houses and robbing aid convoys. More likely, they'd send a few guys to shakedown the villagers after the aid had arrived, or even have supporters among the villagers pass them resources of their own will. This mission is cartoon villainy nonsense. That's part of what makes it so good, it's a slice of Global West Strategic Disease, covered in enough cheese to be funny. It's bad, but it's bad you can point at and laugh. Also the GLA is loving this poo poo and it's funny too, but in a genuine and wholesome way. Also I guess the gameplay is acceptable, or might have been, I'm not too ip to date on that, also I've gotten a lot less tolerant of RTS' tendency to be a build order and a high speed puzzle clicker.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 02:46
|
|
|
mr_stibbons posted:This mission is a big "the war on terror does not work that way". Terrorist groups would not be rampaging through defenseless villages burning down houses and robbing aid convoys. More likely, they'd send a few guys to shakedown the villagers after the aid had arrived, or even have supporters among the villagers pass them resources of their own will. This mission is cartoon villainy nonsense. Thanks for this. I always thought that there was something wrong with the fact that the GLA strategy was to raze the villages when militias don't work like this. Also I think we are the baddies now. For this mission, it's really neat but still unremarkable for the most part. There's never a pressure to NOT build your forces, so it's just a question of massing troops and walk around the map collecting cash. I guess one thing to point out is that it's the first time in the campaign that we have airborne targets. The USA in particular has some interesting relationships with anti air imo but I won't go into details right now. Space Kablooey fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Aug 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
SIGSEGV posted:That's part of what makes it so good, it's a slice of Global West Strategic Disease, covered in enough cheese to be funny. This is how I feel about the GLA in the final analysis. I think there's still some good, old-fashioned Westwood winking at the camera and tacitly acknowledging that this is supposed to be over the top ham-and-cheese silliness without explicitly raising a flag labeled This Is A Joke, Please Laugh Now like a certain future game in the series does. For all of Generals' faults, I think it still has a healthy amount of the old Westwood spirit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 02:53
|
|
|
mr_stibbons posted:This mission is a big "the war on terror does not work that way". Terrorist groups would not be rampaging through defenseless villages burning down houses and robbing aid convoys. More likely, they'd send a few guys to shakedown the villagers after the aid had arrived, or even have supporters among the villagers pass them resources of their own will. This mission is cartoon villainy nonsense. This isnt supposed to be accurate, it's supposed to be american wish-fulfillment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 03:33
|
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:
The quad cannon is definitely another one of the extremely quotable Generals units. And mark me down as another one who never saw the point of the marauder.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 04:43
|
|
|
As I recall, upgrading and levelling a whole mess of Quad Cannons was pretty unstoppable, even against tanks.GhostStalker posted:I tried watching “high level professional multiplayer” of Zero Hour back when I was more into this game and knew I was poo poo at any multiplayer besides a comp stomp, and I was so confused most of the time. People build 2 or 3 dozers then sell their Command Center for the money, and don’t rebuild it for radar or to spend their general points until they’re at least at level 3? When did that become the optimal strategy?
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 06:05
|
|
|
Groetgaffel posted:I'll puncture the next thing that moves! "Don't push me." Absolutely LOVE the Quad Cannon, its flat out my favorite GLA unit by far, and is one of my overall favorites in the entire game. Incredible voice lines, rock solid rapid damage, can actually take some damage in return *at least for GLA standards*, and with max scrap upgrades it can even be a major threat vs all but the most well armored tanks. Honestly the only negative is being slight bulky lengthwise, which can lead to them bunching up in narrow terrain sometimes. Outside of that minor issue, they are just amazing and you can never have enough of them. And count me as another who just really didn't get to much use out of Marauder tanks. One major issue with them that isn't 100% apparent right away is that they lack a moveable turret, and thus have to actually turn the whole tank to line up their shots. This often loses them a couple of seconds if hit on the flank or even worse, behind, and even in a straight up fight, they will have to still swing around a lot. They can pack a nasty punch with max scrap upgrades, but as stated, good luck getting them there. In general I'd rather have Scorpion tanks and their insane first strike Scorpion Rockets instead. The mission itself is decent, nothing too exciting, but the map expanding not once but twice is pretty neat. The UN forces really don't have much to offer and generally garrisoning a bunch of RPG troops with a couple of Rebels in a few key buildings is more then enough to handle things, and as a bonus they can level all nearby buildings to allow access to the money crates and get a clearer line of sight at the same time. You will probably want a Technical or two to sweep up the creates that drop so you don't have to keep ungarrisoning a unit to snag em though. And yeah, the US forces that show up at the end do actually build a base if you sit on your hands and don't attack them for a bit, but considering by now you should have a solid force of Scorpions and Quad Cannons, you can just easily sweep in and pancake them instantly. Still, now with our 40,000 American dollars the sky is the limit, surely!
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 07:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
 Can't say Youtube isn't trying.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 08:02
|
|