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Was there a USA "Cross of Gold" event in V2?
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Aug 28, 2021 16:12
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:53 |
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Here's my money idea: track wealth in gold ounces, with public and private currency conversion factors for each country based on the amount of gold in public circulation+country stockpile. So hoarding gold will cause your purchasing power per ounce to decrease (inflation) while the public and other countries would experience deflation (less gold available, but more purchasing power per ounce).
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Aug 28, 2021 17:04
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PerniciousKnid posted:Here's my money idea: track wealth in gold ounces, with public and private currency conversion factors for each country based on the amount of gold in public circulation+country stockpile. So hoarding gold will cause your purchasing power per ounce to decrease (inflation) while the public and other countries would experience deflation (less gold available, but more purchasing power per ounce).
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Aug 28, 2021 17:30
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Shouldn't deflation/inflation happen organically as a result of the amount of money in the hands of your pops? In any case, the money in your stockpile certainly shouldn't count, as it's actually not in play - it is effectively gold in the ground - until the point where you start spending it and it starts making its way through your economy. I don't think it makes sense to treat an entity sitting on a hoard of gold as though they don't have any, realistically but especially for game purpose.
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Aug 28, 2021 17:32
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PerniciousKnid posted:I don't think it makes sense to treat an entity sitting on a hoard of gold as though they don't have any, realistically but especially for game purpose.
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Aug 28, 2021 17:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Taxation is literally used in the real world to fight inflation. If the entity don't spent it, the money supply is reduced, which leads to deflation. It is essentially reverse minting. That's why I said you have a separate factor for the private sector vs the government. But if the government itself is sitting on infinity gold nobody is going to buy that they can only spend a billionth of an ounce per widget because currency is tight. Realistically the government would buy things and the gold value would enter the private system, because it serves no purpose otherwise.
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Aug 28, 2021 17:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Taxation is literally used in the real world to fight inflation. If the entity don't spent it, the money supply is reduced, which leads to deflation. It is essentially reverse minting. Hey you can’t say that, that’s heterodox Modern Monetary Theory!
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Aug 28, 2021 18:08
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Shouldn't deflation/inflation happen organically as a result of the amount of money in the hands of your pops? In any case, the money in your stockpile certainly shouldn't count, as it's actually not in play - it is effectively gold in the ground - until the point where you start spending it and it starts making its way through your economy. It’s very specifically not gold in the ground, it’s gold which was taken out of the ground, purified, cast into ingots or specie, and then taken out of circulation in order to chill in storage. Every step of that process has a set of effects on the availability of currency metals, the labor required to source them, the labor required to refine them, the labor required to move them, and all of the equipment required for all of that labor. Those effects also have knock-on effects of their own.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:27
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What's the point in gold if not to hoard it? 
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Aug 28, 2021 18:43
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Poil posted:What's the point in gold if not to hoard it? Please let us have the ability to mod in a Dragon culture.
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Aug 28, 2021 19:02
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pointsofdata posted:This is something I'd really like to see fleshed out Inna DLC/update. I don't see why you couldn't come up with a confidence/interest rate based mechanic rather than a hard cutoff. mainly because it is much better to have "fun gameplay" as an absolute priority rather than a better simulation (imho) besides, those mechanics are very cost-intensive - checking how interest rates would impact supply of food in a game doesn't seem to be much more different than the econometric exercises in R in university. each additional variable for the sake of a better simulation, without cheating with ceteris paribus ("everything else constant", one of the most beloved provisions of modern economics for that reason), is going to piledrive the cpu lol of course, all that abstractions so far make victoria's economy absolutely different from reality, but in terms of effect it actually may deliver a much better representation of what happens than explicitly going down the route of simulation
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Aug 28, 2021 19:03
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On the other hand whenever you see a hard cutoff one can't help but worry it'll end up becoming load bearing in some fashion. Another considering is how much of Victoria's intended audience see the fun gameplay as deriving from it having a better simulation! In a neat little chicken and egg sort of scenario. I think one work around for a confidence based measurement which would tie into something I think I thought of earlier which is to treat capitalist pops as being partly stateless; not entirely tied by their nationality and act as something of a global consortium or a representation of "Capital" which would decide such things based on economic and socio-economic indicators. Their aggregate "Score" determines confidence in your currency which is then modified by your gold reserves. Low confidence can be offset by large gold reserves; but low confidence and say switching to fiat currency as a result of war might invite massive inflation and economic disruption and unrest. You would make this calculation as a result of checks you were already doing with POPs anyways.
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Aug 28, 2021 19:11
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I think the level of financial simulation as described in the DD is perfect. You'd need a game entirely focused on victorian monetary shenanigans to really make it worth deeper simulation. I'm very ok with money being quite abstracted.
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Aug 28, 2021 19:24
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The currency value just vanishing represents the losses to your nation of having economists
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Aug 28, 2021 19:31
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The gold limit isn't even a hard cutoff. It's a point beyond which diminishing returns kick in, but the % of the weekly income you keep gradually increases rather than immediately going to X
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Aug 28, 2021 19:32
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LonsomeSon posted:It’s very specifically not gold in the ground, it’s gold which was taken out of the ground, purified, cast into ingots or specie, and then taken out of circulation in order to chill in storage. LonsomeSon posted:The currency value just vanishing represents the losses to your nation of having economists
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Aug 28, 2021 19:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Is, not was. All the things you mention is about the currency before it entered the vault, which are entirely irrelevant to what it is when it is inside the vault. I'm really hoping after V2 they've got the whole money supply problem on lock down. Wiz knows his V2 very well, both the good and the bad. The whole way money works is so different this time, it's all about cash flows rather than cash hoarding. Just like goods are stockpiled, money isn't really stockpiled its converted into gold stocks which are very much their own thing. V3 seems to be all about flows rather than stockpiles.
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Aug 28, 2021 20:48
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the deranged poo poo about flows is fuckin up lyapunov exponents so the derivative gets all hosed up of course they also need to have this as a feature. gotta get some natural way to have depressions and bubbles in there
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Aug 28, 2021 20:52
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Pretty sure they said there's unlimited money. No longer will the global economy collapse because some fatcats in Saskatoon own literally all the money in the world
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Aug 28, 2021 20:52
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None of this would be a problem if the British Empire had simply run on Bitcoin Wiz have you considered running the V3 economic simulation on the blockchain
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Aug 28, 2021 21:01
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DaysBefore posted:Pretty sure they said there's unlimited money. No longer will the global economy collapse because some fatcats in Saskatoon own literally all the money in the world Yes I think in the dev diary on goods they mentioned that all goods produced will get sold on the market regardless of what the demand is (the demand just affects how much they are sold for), so money is just created by the system as needed to fulfill these orders. On the opposite side of the spectrum, buyers don't give the money they spend on goods to anyone, it just gets destroyed (the automatic sale of all goods means that this abstraction more or less works out how you'd think it would in that buyers spend money and sellers get money, but the handling of money this way just makes the system a lot easier to control).
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Aug 29, 2021 09:13
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I don't know if it's been posted in this thread already and it's not on the topic of simulated economics, but Johan mentioned in a reddit thread that national flags are dynamic and use the same software that CK3 uses to handle coats of arms. So the number of stars on the US flag changes to match how many states you have, which is pretty neat.
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Aug 29, 2021 13:22
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Takanago posted:None of this would be a problem if the British Empire had simply run on Bitcoin There should be dlcs to change the economy to make different ideologies reality. Libertopia dlc, crypto dlc, etc
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Aug 29, 2021 13:26
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yes I think in the dev diary on goods they mentioned that all goods produced will get sold on the market regardless of what the demand is (the demand just affects how much they are sold for), so money is just created by the system as needed to fulfill these orders. On the opposite side of the spectrum, buyers don't give the money they spend on goods to anyone, it just gets destroyed (the automatic sale of all goods means that this abstraction more or less works out how you'd think it would in that buyers spend money and sellers get money, but the handling of money this way just makes the system a lot easier to control).
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Aug 29, 2021 14:00
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yes I think in the dev diary on goods they mentioned that all goods produced will get sold on the market regardless of what the demand is (the demand just affects how much they are sold for), so money is just created by the system as needed to fulfill these orders. On the opposite side of the spectrum, buyers don't give the money they spend on goods to anyone, it just gets destroyed (the automatic sale of all goods means that this abstraction more or less works out how you'd think it would in that buyers spend money and sellers get money, but the handling of money this way just makes the system a lot easier to control). Yeah this was my reading of it too, which made me wonder if "crises of overproduction" will be possible at all in this game, or will the economy just be perfect all the time?
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Aug 29, 2021 14:18
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Presumably at some point you'll end up selling at less than the cost of production, which of course is unsustainable in the long run. Causing the capitalists to shut down all cement factories and making the global economy collapse completely, if we're lucky 
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Aug 29, 2021 15:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:There should be dlcs to change the economy to make different ideologies reality. Libertopia dlc, crypto dlc, etc I'm honestly kinda hoping we get some mods that change the kind of goods that we make so we end up with things like a steampunk mod/magitek or arcanum mod, etc.
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Aug 29, 2021 16:02
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Your capiatlists has build a airship factroy
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Aug 29, 2021 16:23
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V3 DLC to include gold reserve room to CK3’s throne room, but you can swim in it like Scrooge McDuck.
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Aug 29, 2021 16:53
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guidoanselmi posted:V3 DLC to include gold reserve room to CK3’s throne room, but you can swim in it like Scrooge McDuck. 73%: [head of state] dies! 27%: +100 prestige ... Actually, now that I think about it, do we know if prestige is a thing in V3?
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Aug 29, 2021 16:59
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Maybe I'm not getting it, but how is this different from all the buyers pooling their money, the sellers pooling their goods, and then everyone getting a share of the opposite pool equal to their contribution to their own? I'm not seeing where the money supply is unlimited, it's just destroyed and then recreated as part of the transaction from how you describe it. The key thing is that if say, 1000 units of cement are produced, but only 100 units are actually demanded by the market, all 1000 units are still sold, with 900 of them just not going anywhere. There are no buyers for those 900 units, the money is just created and given to the people who sold them. At least, this is my understanding based on how it was described in the dev diary - I may be misunderstanding it but they did definitely say that the money supply is not finite the way it was in Vicky 2.
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Aug 29, 2021 21:08
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Pakled posted:73%: [head of state] dies! It is , and it's still used as part of the Great Power calculations and stuff.
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Aug 29, 2021 21:30
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The key thing is that if say, 1000 units of cement are produced, but only 100 units are actually demanded by the market, all 1000 units are still sold, with 900 of them just not going anywhere. There are no buyers for those 900 units, the money is just created and given to the people who sold them. A factory can be churning out something that nobody wants but it's still making money instead of going bankrupt? Or is money made by pops working at a factory seperate from the profit from said factory? I guess it will keep those pesky liberals from boarding up all of my specifically curated and subsdised industries at least
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Aug 29, 2021 22:34
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DaysBefore posted:A factory can be churning out something that nobody wants but it's still making money instead of going bankrupt? Or is money made by pops working at a factory seperate from the profit from said factory? I guess it will keep those pesky liberals from boarding up all of my specifically curated and subsdised industries at least If surplus units are being produced, the market price falls until enough factories cease operation to eliminate the surplus.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:44
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DaysBefore posted:A factory can be churning out something that nobody wants but it's still making money instead of going bankrupt? Or is money made by pops working at a factory seperate from the profit from said factory? I guess it will keep those pesky liberals from boarding up all of my specifically curated and subsdised industries at least Producing more things than there is demand for will lower the sell price of a good, and if that price drops below the cost of manufacture (ie wages+material cost), the factory will eat into its cash reserves until bankruptcy.
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Aug 30, 2021 12:37
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Ngl I'm expecting V3 to be a mess on release, but it's gonna be a hot mess not a Leviathan mess.
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Aug 30, 2021 15:16
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a Vicky game that isn't a mess isn't a Vicky game tbh how can it be a true sequel without some absurd interaction between the systems that causes the economy to grind to a halt in 10% of all games?
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Aug 30, 2021 15:44
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Charlz Guybon posted:But a 19th century Imperial power with the capabilities of the modern US would simply use the gross power disparity to completely annihilate a few tribes supporting the Taliban until the rest bent the knee. And if they refused, they would just keep killing them until there's so few left that their tribal enemies can sweep them away. Fire bomb villages to ash, nerve gas, tactical nuclear weapons, etc. Now, this would be completely immoral and evil, but it would work. You realize the mightiest 19th century imperial power did in fact attempt to do the whole imperialism thing in Afghanistan during the 19th century and it didn't work out very well, yes?
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Aug 30, 2021 15:54
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Orange Devil posted:You realize the mightiest 19th century imperial power did in fact attempt to do the whole imperialism thing in Afghanistan during the 19th century and it didn't work out very well, yes?
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Aug 30, 2021 15:56
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:53 |
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Orange Devil posted:You realize the mightiest 19th century imperial power did in fact attempt to do the whole imperialism thing in Afghanistan during the 19th century and it didn't work out very well, yes? From what I understand, the British tried to militarily prop up a puppet government without setting up colonial institutions (sounds familiar), so not Belgian Congo, or even British India/Ireland.
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Aug 30, 2021 16:05
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