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Biplane posted:Televise Fifteen Hours you fuckin cowards The problem with this is that it's not going to hook anyone that isn't already into 40k. It's literally just WW1 trench warfare (complete with out of touch, arristocratic officers and utterly incompetent logistics) but the Germans are giant green monsters. A casual would just see the soldiers from Starship Troopers playing out a standard WW1 "war is hell" story but with Lord of the Rings monsters and say "well, what was the point of that...?". We need something that captures the religious mania of the imperium and the WTF scale, but doesn't jump straight into "10 foot demigod leads army of 8 foot genetic super soliders in space-faring cathedrals to fight 11 foot Mega-Jesus on giant palace earth as cloaked mechanical spider people sing hymns and cyber-babies swing incense and a 9 foot angel flies around swinging a sword at armed Balrogs and a giant chicken demon". There's a learning curve to this poo poo... Bit of a tangent, but I never watched Chronicles of Riddick because it opened up and there appeared to be this entire world already created with races and history and as an outsider I just said "wut?" and turned off 10 minutes in. I felt like I was watching a play-through of some playstation game on it's 15th sequel complete with batshit mythology. This is why WH40k will always struggle. It either has to be drip fed and just roll with the weirdness and hope that people get interested enough to look into it, or it gets the awful Hollywood treatment where they strip out everything and it becomes "HORUS - Warhammer 40k The Motion Picture" and it's a human father and son battle with standard sci-fi design, Rogal Dorn is a computer hacker with no sense of humour, Perturabo is a 5ft hunchback engineer on Horus' ship, Horus sells his soul to the American-standard devil and Malcador is a priest who advises the Emperor to find his standard-American faith to stand against him. Oh, and there's ONE cool scene where an angel appears to talk to the Emperor in a dream and it's a glimpse of what the movie should have been with Sanguinius wrecking poo poo, but other than that it makes about as much sense as the Masters of the loving Universe movie and people say "is that the poo poo you've been paining little soldiers for all this time?". It does not get it's planned sequel... Sorry. 
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Aug 29, 2021 13:06
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Alright, televise Vaults of Terra you fuckin cowards!!
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Aug 29, 2021 13:22
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Adapt the Yarrick book where it's about getting invaded by ork on Armageddon. It's got corrupt politics, 40k religion, loving orks being a terrifying threat and Yarrick
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Aug 29, 2021 13:24
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The absolute best possible entry point to the series for new viewers would be Eisenhorn. The cast is mostly human, the detective story framing allows the characters to steadily discover new information (drip-feeding it to the audience and obviating the need for an expo dump) and the framing of the story can also be employed to take advantage of people’s genre sensibilities. For instance: in a detective story the detective is often warned off of pursuing a case by the authorities. Rather than explain the Byzantine structure of the Ordos, just have Osma and Rorken play the “police chief” role. The Arbites are obviously the cops. Whenever there’s an element of the 40K setting you’d have to explain to people, slot it in place of a genre trope so people’s genre sensibility can explain to them what that thing is.
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Aug 29, 2021 13:34
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Dog_Meat posted:The problem with this is that it's not going to hook anyone that isn't already into 40k. It's literally just WW1 trench warfare (complete with out of touch, arristocratic officers and utterly incompetent logistics) but the Germans are giant green monsters. A casual would just see the soldiers from Starship Troopers playing out a standard WW1 "war is hell" story but with Lord of the Rings monsters and say "well, what was the point of that...?". Haven't read Fifteen Hours but it sounds like it rocks actually? "War movie but with orks" done well seems fine as babby's first 40k experience. Armageddon's the same thing , so probably don't do both of them at once.
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Aug 29, 2021 13:34
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The absolute best possible entry point to the series for new viewers would be Eisenhorn. The cast is mostly human, the detective story framing allows the characters to steadily discover new information (drip-feeding it to the audience and obviating the need for an expo dump) and the framing of the story can also be employed to take advantage of people’s genre sensibilities. For instance: in a detective story the detective is often warned off of pursuing a case by the authorities. Rather than explain the Byzantine structure of the Ordos, just have Osma and Rorken play the “police chief” role. The Arbites are obviously the cops. Whenever there’s an element of the 40K setting you’d have to explain to people, slot it in place of a genre trope so people’s genre sensibility can explain to them what that thing is. This is true and it's the very reason why the old thread title was "Red Eisenhorn then come back". Eisenhorn doesn't even touch the freaky cosmic stuff til much later, sees a single Chaos marine and it's a terrifying, worldview shattering event and then it gradually introduces him to the loyal astartes. Done right it has the best chance of working. The formaty even allows for a voice over so you can take some liberties with the exposition and feed info to the audience. Syncopated posted:Haven't read Fifteen Hours but it sounds like it rocks actually? "War movie but with orks" done well seems fine as babby's first 40k experience. Armageddon's the same thing , so probably don't do both of them at once. In theory 15 Hours should be ideal, but it's not different enough to other material to justify any kind of budget from a studio. the only things in that book that are distinctly 40k are the orcs (that are standard snarling monsters with guns rather than british hooligan comical orcs) and the fact that the soldiers have lasguns. Swap the Emperor talk for "god" and it's literally a trench warfare fish out of water band of brothers story with CGI battle scenes. At least with the Gaunt's Ghosts series you can make it "Sharpe but with aliens, chaos and poo poo". (note - 15 Hours is a great mid-teir book and should be on your reading list, but it's not a great "40k specific" book) That said, you're right about Armageddon as it's setting is suitably different to anything we've seen in history or other media. Giant hive blocks, the inner world with all the levels, proper Imperial Guard (not WW1 soldiers with lasers) with Ogryns, commisars, etc. And the invasion taking place would show the Orcs arriving on hulks, so could introduce the concept of the warp. Communications with psykers, full 40k weaponry and eventual intervention from the astartes all wrapped around a story of "principled old bad rear end gets to save the day and rise a legend".
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Aug 29, 2021 15:02
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just adapt SPACE MARINE
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Aug 29, 2021 15:06
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:just adapt SPACE MARINE ...you cowards!!
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Aug 29, 2021 15:28
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Dog_Meat posted:...you cowards!! tbh "three boys from different parts of a hive city go through SPACE MARINE traning together" is a pretty solid hook.
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Aug 29, 2021 15:40
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Unless you meant Relic's Space Marine, also known as "OI, SPAYCE MAHREENZ". The scherzo in that soundtrack has no right being as good as it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzQFy7O_5V4
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Aug 29, 2021 15:43
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boredsatellite posted:Adapt the Yarrick book where it's about getting invaded by ork on Armageddon. Yeah the third episode of the anthology series on warhammer+, that was about Yarrick and Ghazgkhull, was really good and that team should make a whole series about Armageddon. Philthy posted:Just realized what that vision was. I was watching that episode with people who don't know much about Warhammer though they've played some of the video games and stuff. They asked about that vision and trying to explain that was like this:  Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 16:06
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Do a loving Iron Snakes series. It has a dog.
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Aug 29, 2021 16:16
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:just adapt SPACE MARINE Dog_Meat posted:...you cowards!!
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Aug 29, 2021 16:36
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Telsa Cola posted:Do a loving Iron Snakes series. It has a dog. Actually Brothers of the Snake would be a really good intro into Space Marines. You start with just the one Space marine on a solo mission, then see him with his squad. then see him promoted to Sergeant, then do some squad sized missions, then the big blow out with the company sized actions against the Orks. It would work great.
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Aug 29, 2021 18:09
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jng2058 posted:Actually Brothers of the Snake would be a really good intro into Space Marines. You start with just the one Space marine on a solo mission, then see him with his squad. then see him promoted to Sergeant, then do some squad sized missions, then the big blow out with the company sized actions against the Orks. It would work great. Yeah, Brothers of the Snake is the best intro to space marines I can imagine. For someone who doesn’t know what a Space Marine is, Antoni’s reaction to Priad is a great way to introduce the concept, from her shock that he came alone, to the powerful visual of him emerging from his ship, to the hyper-kinetic combat sequences where he effortlessly dispatches a whole clan of dark eldar.
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Aug 29, 2021 19:12
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Yeah, Brothers of the Snake is the best intro to space marines I can imagine. For someone who doesn’t know what a Space Marine is, Antoni’s reaction to Priad is a great way to introduce the concept, from her shock that he came alone, to the powerful visual of him emerging from his ship, to the hyper-kinetic combat sequences where he effortlessly dispatches a whole clan of dark eldar. Also the whole "We have these super nice rooms and a feast for you" and the marines going "Uhhh why???"
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Aug 29, 2021 19:17
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"One marine, one planet."
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Aug 29, 2021 20:55
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Yeah, Brothers of the Snake is the best intro to space marines I can imagine. For someone who doesn’t know what a Space Marine is, Antoni’s reaction to Priad is a great way to introduce the concept, from her shock that he came alone, to the powerful visual of him emerging from his ship, to the hyper-kinetic combat sequences where he effortlessly dispatches a whole clan of dark eldar. The planet is also low tech so you would get the holy poo poo moment where things transition to the wider imperium.
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Aug 29, 2021 21:36
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So reading the Chris Wraight Space Wolf books, and I’m half way through Stormcaller. And I’m starting to speculate: Are they gonna do a Great Awakening/upcoming 42k story thing where belief makes things real and the wolves really are special and use the power of their planet’s world spirit and not the warp itself.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:05
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That's still the warp doing it.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:15
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Whether the wolves really do get their psy powers from a wild yet benevolent source or whether they're just psykers deluding themselves doesn't matter -- they believe it, and with the warp intruding on the physical universe like never before, that belief becomes real. Sisters of Battle really can charge through hails of gunfire without a scratch and kill demons by praying hard while they shoot.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:16
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The explanation that I have seen get used more lately is that something is acting as a filter between them and the warp and its either the world spirit of the planet or it's the emperor. The scars have something similar.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:20
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Dog_Meat posted:Bit of a tangent, but I never watched Chronicles of Riddick because it opened up and there appeared to be this entire world already created with races and history and as an outsider I just said "wut?" and turned off 10 minutes in. you just have dogshit taste in trash media, my god
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Aug 29, 2021 22:48
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Sextro posted:So reading the Chris Wraight Space Wolf books, and I’m half way through Stormcaller. And I’m starting to speculate: Are they gonna do a Great Awakening/upcoming 42k story thing where belief makes things real and the wolves really are special and use the power of their planet’s world spirit and not the warp itself. That's been a thing for a while. I think that side of the Space Wolves isn't gonna be developed much, just left as their hypocritical background details. Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 22:50
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Hey remember how the Thousand Sons had totally benign familiars that weren't at all insidious trojan horses? Sure would be tragic if the Space Wolves fell for that one.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:53
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So, warhammer+ looking worth it or nah? I watched bale eye and it loving ruled.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:24
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Molothecat posted:So, warhammer+ looking worth it or nah? I watched bale eye and it loving ruled. Well youve seen 1/5 of what's available currently, basically. If around $1 a week feels worth it for an annual subscription, go for it.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:35
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As others have said intent matters when dealing with the warp. Ultimately the warp is neutral. If the imperium was full of rainbows and sunshine the chaos gods would be carebears. That doesn't mean the wolves can't be tricked but it's worked for them for 10k years. At $1/week I had no qualms in subscribing to Warhammer+ even though there isn't a ton of content yet. The two shows were really great and they are going to be adding content to the vault on a weekly basis so I'm happy. Plus I honestly just want to support any animation/tv efforts they do because I really want to see Eisenhorn.
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Aug 30, 2021 01:57
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If you're on the fence, wait a couple months for content to build up
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Aug 30, 2021 02:26
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Recently finished Night Lords omnibus after like a few years of going through Eisenhorn, Gaunts Ghosts, Ravenor and Bequin and I think the taint of chaos has taken hold unfortunately. Are there any other ADB-level series that don’t dwell on the lies of the corpse emperor?
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Aug 30, 2021 04:41
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Well ADB has released two books on the Black Legion so Id start there
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Aug 30, 2021 04:57
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Dog_Meat posted:Bit of a tangent, but I never watched Chronicles of Riddick because it opened up and there appeared to be this entire world already created with races and history and as an outsider I just said "wut?" and turned off 10 minutes in. I felt like I was watching a play-through of some playstation game on it's 15th sequel complete with batshit mythology. Improbable Lobster posted:If you're on the fence, wait a couple months for content to build up
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Aug 30, 2021 05:44
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Telsa Cola posted:Also the whole "We have these super nice rooms and a feast for you" and the marines going "Uhhh why???" You know, thinking about this very thing, it occurs to me that the Space Wolves may actually be the chapter with the most humanity left to them, because they would get it. Space Wolves party, and drink, and enjoy good food and good ale, and are thus better equipped that most Marines to understand what motivates regular humans. Hell, they can even have affection for their wolves the way regular humans do for dogs!
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Aug 30, 2021 06:45
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The Wolves are the legion that has changed the least since the crusade, so they were savages in 30k and are empathetic champions of humanity in 40k.
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Aug 30, 2021 06:53
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jng2058 posted:You know, thinking about this very thing, it occurs to me that the Space Wolves may actually be the chapter with the most humanity left to them, because they would get it. Space Wolves party, and drink, and enjoy good food and good ale, and are thus better equipped that most Marines to understand what motivates regular humans. Hell, they can even have affection for their wolves the way regular humans do for dogs! Off the top of my head Space Wolves and Scars are fairly chill. Iron Snakes are too with Priad being incredibly tactful with his contact lady.
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Aug 30, 2021 07:13
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wiegieman posted:The Wolves are the legion that has changed the least since the crusade, so they were savages in 30k and are empathetic champions of humanity in 40k. Goddamn if that's not a good way to contextualise the Space Wolves and the state of the Imperium at large
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Aug 30, 2021 07:48
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Campbell posted:Recently finished Night Lords omnibus after like a few years of going through Eisenhorn, Gaunts Ghosts, Ravenor and Bequin and I think the taint of chaos has taken hold unfortunately. Are there any other ADB-level series that don’t dwell on the lies of the corpse emperor? I feel like a broken record here, but: yes! ADB did a Horus Heresy "trilogy" about the Word Bearers: 'The First Heretic'; 'Aurelian'; 'Betrayer'.
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Aug 30, 2021 10:01
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Relevant Tangent posted:you just have dogshit taste in trash media, my god Hey, man... I have finite brain space and I've dedicated 30+ years of my life cramming it with 40k lore Some uppity Mary Sue guy with Night Lords eyes he ordered from Wish is going to have to work pretty drat hard to tickle my trash media receptors after 200ft tall walking cathedrals fighting elder gods formed in the broiling concept of emotions while 9ft genetic engineered monks wearing tanks fight with chainsaws and giant green british football hooligans shoot rockets out of converted sewerpipes before attacking rows of Napoleonic lazer-armed soldiers with meat cleavers as giant space locusts descend from space and raise up their alien-hybrid cults to fight with souless terminator zombies with dissintegrator scythes and floating pyramids. It's enough to make a 200 yearold inquisitor with a magic skull staff and a weaponised pet demon trapped in a corpse want to jack it all in and join his friend - a burnt husk of a torso in a box that does magic - and go live with the elves in space who once ripped a hole in the galaxy because they loved to party so hard and now have to be careful not to get tentacle raped by space cenobites or 10 foot armoured masochist super soldiers in pink who play guitars as weapons. Oh BTW. There was a galaxy-wide Skynet/Terminator war thing that almost wiped out the entire human race across millions of planets, but we don't know much about that because it was just a thing that happened on Tuesday. But now we use people as machines instead, k? Where were we... oh yeah, introducing 40k to casuals 
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Aug 30, 2021 10:35
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Salamanders even maintain contact with their families after becoming space marines right? What chapters retain the least humanity, Iron Hands, Black Templars?
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Aug 30, 2021 11:32
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Syncopated posted:Salamanders even maintain contact with their families after becoming space marines right? What chapters retain the least humanity, Iron Hands, Black Templars? The legion that became the Iron Hands is originally from the British Isles so they had no humanity to begin with
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Aug 30, 2021 11:44
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